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Is there better stuff than X10?

J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Is there anything better than this cheesy X10 stuff, something that is
_not_ RF based like zigbee would be, and still affordable? The X10
protocol is not good and the modules are IMHO utter junk.
 
N

Nico Coesel

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joerg said:
Is there anything better than this cheesy X10 stuff, something that is
_not_ RF based like zigbee would be, and still affordable? The X10
protocol is not good and the modules are IMHO utter junk.

A company called Eaton Holec has developed the A10 protocol based on
the X10 protocol. See http://www.bwired.nl/How_xanuranew.asp for some
info.
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Michael said:
Have you looked at the Intellion powerline modem ICs?

I've only seen patents from them. But if I have to roll my own wusing
some specialty chip I'd rather do it from scratch, MSP430 or PSoC. I
don't have a lot of trust in powerline comms companies anymore.
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
BobW said:
Is it the price of wireless or just being wireless that you don't like?

If it's just the price, then look at Z-Wave. It's older technology than
ZigBee but it's works darn well. I've ripped out all my X10 stuff and
replaced it with Z-Wave.

RF in this house is going to be a nightmare. The builders wanted to be
extra good and insulated all inner walls with aluminum backed fiber.
Anything past a few hundred MHz doesn't get any range here.

The thing that I really like about it is that every device acts as a
repeater, so controller-to-device distance usually isn't an issue.

Which means you have to have repeaters and they must be on circuits that
are always powered.


Personally I don't trust the company behind it anymore. They sold timers
which always failed in the same way and then refused to sell the simple
plastic gear to fix them. They didn't even answer multiple inquiries.
That gets rewarded with a loooong ban in this house ;-)
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jeff said:
Sorry, but RF is the rage and wired standards are out. Z-wave is the
latest in wireless standards, consortia, conspiracies, IP litigation,
and products. See:
<http://www.z-wave.com>
<http://www.z-wavealliance.org>
List of players:
<http://www.z-wavealliance.org/modules/iaCM-MCL/>
Some detail:
<http://www.z-wavealliance.org/modules/xoopsfaq/>
Chip vendor:
<http://www.zen-sys.com/modules/Zensys/>
Light reading:
<http://www.zen-sys.com/modules/Products&Techonology/?id=33&chk=5b22312658d556869c744c205909f8b3>

Runs on 908.42MHz in the US and 868.42MHz in EU at 9600 baud. 30
meters indoors and 100 meters outdoors. ...


In this super RF-tight house that would translate into maybe 15m indoors
and outdoors only if there is a window more or less directly in the
path. Abover 433MHz it gets really bad.

... It can be bi-directional so
you have some indication that the device actually responded. X10 is
unidirectional. 232(?) nodes maximum per network. It is setup as a
mesh networks to extend range (i.e. no central access point) with self
routing and self healing routes.

I've played with some of the Leviton Vizia products and find them
"good enough". That means that they do what's advertised, but I sure
would like to see some more features, diagnostics, monitoring, and
clues as to what's happening.

The problem is the high price, but I expect that to drop:
<http://www.smarthome.com/_/Z_Wave_Compatible/_/23V/nav.aspx?Ns=Price&Ne=148>
<http://www.smarthomeusa.com/search.php?q=z-wave&x=0&y=0>
Affordable will have to wait.

Plus I don't want any Intermatic products.

The other thing that puzzles me: The EPA and all kinds of agencies push
CFL yet most of these home automation guys don't seem to get it. They
still sell dimmer modules that cannot be turned into a non-dim CFL
compatible mode.
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jeff said:
I have customers with similar houses. I have to use repeaters and
bridges between sections of the house. Sometimes, I can get away with
shooting through doorways. For Z-wave, the trick is just to put two
switch or wall power devices back to back on the same wall. That will
act as a repeater. There are also bridges between X10 and other
technologies that might help.

Could be tough here. The boxes are metal and then there is another layer
of aluminum-backed fiber behind them that you could only rip out by
busting through the drywall. That methods has a very low WAF ;-)

I've had that: Transmitter in the office, other side in the kitchen next
to it. No signal :-(

More reading:



You are really difficult to please. Are there any other companies on
your black list that I should avoid?

Yep, like one chip mfg that starts with "M" ...

Z-wave technology is about 2-3 years old. The CFL recommendations are
somewhat more recent. My guess(tm) is a dimmable CFL would need to
have the Z-wave chip integrated. However, you're correct about the
dimmer modules. They could easily have added an on/off feature in
place of dimming. However, I think there are some on/off only modules
available, but I'm too lazy to look.

Very few. The powers to be in that market simply don't seem to realize
where the trend goes. And the liability that comes with it should uncle
Leroy climb on that old ladder and screw a CFL into the socket where he
technically shouldn't.
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jeff said:
Which one? Motorola, Maxim, Microchip, Monolythic Memories, Mostek,
MOS Technologies, Marvell, Marconi-Elliot, Matsushita, Mitsubishi...
Yeah, I know some of these are defunct.


The 2nd one :)

At least I am not using their stuff, seen too much grief WRT unobtanium
situations.
 
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