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Is the HF Band a Noise Wasteland?

D

D from BC

Jan 1, 1970
0
I was reading on
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_frequency

The HF band is from 3Mhz to 30Mhz.
(The upper f of AM radio is ~1.6Mhz)

This band is used by CB radio operators and amateur radio operators.

Anybody here just think:
"Put the EMI here! It's ok." :p

So some truckers get some static.
HF Radio amateurs can use the internet.
(Who wants to wait for sunspots to go away?)

Has the HF band become the 'garbage dump' of the airwaves?


D from BC
British Columbia
Canada.
 
B

Bob

Jan 1, 1970
0
I was reading onhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_frequency

The HF band is from 3Mhz to 30Mhz.
(The upper f of AM radio is ~1.6Mhz)

This band is used by CB radio operators and amateur radio operators.

Anybody here just think:
"Put the EMI here! It's ok." :p

So some truckers get some static.
HF Radio amateurs can use the internet.
(Who wants to wait for sunspots to go away?)

Has the HF band become the 'garbage dump' of the airwaves?

D from BC
British Columbia
Canada.

CB uses the top end of HF. It is near useless during daylight hours
for days at a time when the ionosphere is highly charged and
signals from hundreds of miles away blot out the person a few
miles away that you actually want to talk to. The unreliabilty
makes it undesirable for radio communications of any importance.

The radio hams and CB are on HF because back when the bands
where allocated UHF was expensive and impractical due
the limitations of the available technolody. No, nobdy thought
"put the junk here", they made frequency allocations based on
practicality.

These days money seems to be the main driving factor.
In Europe short range license-exempt digital-modulation
walkie talkies are being allowed. I'v read they have
about a 7dB advantage over FM. There is no technical
reason to not allow full duplex operation or automatic
frequency selection to minise clashing with other users.
The cynic in me says that the billions the mobile phone
companys paid for licenses has somthing to do with it.

Bob

Bob
 
J

Jitt

Jan 1, 1970
0
I was reading on
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_frequency

The HF band is from 3Mhz to 30Mhz.
(The upper f of AM radio is ~1.6Mhz)

This band is used by CB radio operators and amateur radio operators.

Anybody here just think:
"Put the EMI here! It's ok." :p

So some truckers get some static.
HF Radio amateurs can use the internet.
(Who wants to wait for sunspots to go away?)

Has the HF band become the 'garbage dump' of the airwaves?


D from BC
British Columbia
Canada.
Dont forget Shortwave broadcasts, and Land and Marine
commercial SSB comms, military nets, time and weather
signals...lots!
 
J

Jamie

Jan 1, 1970
0
D said:
I was reading on
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_frequency

The HF band is from 3Mhz to 30Mhz.
(The upper f of AM radio is ~1.6Mhz)

This band is used by CB radio operators and amateur radio operators.

Anybody here just think:
"Put the EMI here! It's ok." :p

So some truckers get some static.
HF Radio amateurs can use the internet.
(Who wants to wait for sunspots to go away?)

Has the HF band become the 'garbage dump' of the airwaves?


D from BC
British Columbia
Canada.
why would you want to wait for the sun spots to go away? it's
better with them..
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
I was reading on
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_frequency

The HF band is from 3Mhz to 30Mhz.
(The upper f of AM radio is ~1.6Mhz)

This band is used by CB radio operators and amateur radio operators.

Anybody here just think:
"Put the EMI here! It's ok." :p

So some truckers get some static.
HF Radio amateurs can use the internet.
(Who wants to wait for sunspots to go away?)

Has the HF band become the 'garbage dump' of the airwaves?

It always was. Stuff below 50 MHz gets reflected by the ionosphere, so
at HF frequencies the whole world is in one noisy tin can. Natural
atmospheric noise, lightning and such, is trapped too. That's why it's
not worth designing an HF receiver with an especially good noise
figure.

John
 
D

D from BC

Jan 1, 1970
0
why would you want to wait for the sun spots to go away? it's
better with them..

I'm not familiar with sun spot effects on HF radio.
I just thought.
Sunspots>ionized particles>solar wind>trapped in earth mag
field>charged particles in atmosphere>noise in HF band
Plus some nice colours in the sky..

Are you saying that during sun spots it's more uhhh...say
'excusable'... to make EMI (radiated smps EMI) in the HF band?


D from BC
British Columbia
Canada.
 
M

mpm

Jan 1, 1970
0
It always was. Stuff below 50 MHz gets reflected by the ionosphere, so
at HF frequencies the whole world is in one noisy tin can. Natural
atmospheric noise, lightning and such, is trapped too. That's why it's
not worth designing an HF receiver with an especially good noise
figure.

John- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thank god for noise blanker circuits....

Speaking of spectrum wastelands.... the petition to reallocate TV
Channel-6 to the FM band is back on the horizon. This time to include
TV-5 as well. (USA)

It would add substantially to the FM broadcast band, which is
congested in most urban areas.
And very few TV stations have elected 5/6 as their terrestrial DTV
channel.
Perhaps the time has finally come?

-mpm
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
Thank god for noise blanker circuits....

Speaking of spectrum wastelands.... the petition to reallocate TV
Channel-6 to the FM band is back on the horizon. This time to include
TV-5 as well. (USA)

It would add substantially to the FM broadcast band, which is
congested in most urban areas.
And very few TV stations have elected 5/6 as their terrestrial DTV
channel.
Perhaps the time has finally come?

-mpm


Do we need 15 more soft rock stations, or three more places to hear
Prarie Home Companion?

John
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
If you must live with small antennas you have to. One reason my EMC kit
has a LNA.


And we all by new car radios? Nah.
Do we need 15 more soft rock stations, or three more places to hear
Prarie Home Companion?

Could use a few more country stations with the old stuff. And I want
Wolfman Jack back!
 
T

T

Jan 1, 1970
0
I was reading on
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_frequency

The HF band is from 3Mhz to 30Mhz.
(The upper f of AM radio is ~1.6Mhz)

This band is used by CB radio operators and amateur radio operators.

Anybody here just think:
"Put the EMI here! It's ok." :p

So some truckers get some static.
HF Radio amateurs can use the internet.
(Who wants to wait for sunspots to go away?)

Has the HF band become the 'garbage dump' of the airwaves?


D from BC
British Columbia
Canada.

The band is used by more than that. Yes we amateurs use from the 160m
band up to the 2m band and then into the cm range. CB operators are
strictly 11m which runs form 26.965MHz to 27.405MHz while the amateur
10m runs 28.000MHz to 29.700MHz a whole 1.7MHz of bandwidth.

Yes, we amateurs do use the internet, but we also use the radio.
 
T

T

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'm not familiar with sun spot effects on HF radio.
I just thought.
Sunspots>ionized particles>solar wind>trapped in earth mag
field>charged particles in atmosphere>noise in HF band
Plus some nice colours in the sky..

Are you saying that during sun spots it's more uhhh...say
'excusable'... to make EMI (radiated smps EMI) in the HF band?


D from BC
British Columbia
Canada.

Simple, the E layer of the atmosphere gets all charged up from that
particle bombardment. That makes it reflect radio signals in the HF
bands. You get increased distance.


Now temperature inversions will duct VHF signals to distant locations.

Get your amateur radio license. You might learn a thing or two.
 
T

T

Jan 1, 1970
0
Do we need 15 more soft rock stations, or three more places to hear
Prarie Home Companion?

John

No but we could use more community based stations and non Clear Channel
stations.
 
D

D from BC

Jan 1, 1970
0
Simple, the E layer of the atmosphere gets all charged up from that
particle bombardment. That makes it reflect radio signals in the HF
bands. You get increased distance.


Now temperature inversions will duct VHF signals to distant locations.

Get your amateur radio license. You might learn a thing or two.

Ahhh...
So in that case.. I should have wrote:
"Who wants to wait for lots of sunspots?"

Amateur radio...psshhht :p
'Can you hear me .zzshhhht..Can you hear
me...zsshhhtt..what?.zsszzhhhst..Repeat that ,,,,zssshhhts'
Bad enough I get that sort of frustration from my cellphone.


D from BC
British Columbia
Canada.
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
D said:
Ahhh...
So in that case.. I should have wrote:
"Who wants to wait for lots of sunspots?"

Amateur radio...psshhht :p
'Can you hear me .zzshhhht..Can you hear
me...zsshhhtt..what?.zsszzhhhst..Repeat that ,,,,zssshhhts'
Bad enough I get that sort of frustration from my cellphone.

Then one fine day there is a major power outage, the cell tower backups
runs dry and everyone in the area finds zero bars on their cell phone.
That is where point to point communication can save the day, and has
many times.
 
T

T

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ahhh...
So in that case.. I should have wrote:
"Who wants to wait for lots of sunspots?"

Amateur radio...psshhht :p
'Can you hear me .zzshhhht..Can you hear
me...zsshhhtt..what?.zsszzhhhst..Repeat that ,,,,zssshhhts'
Bad enough I get that sort of frustration from my cellphone.


D from BC
British Columbia
Canada.

Real amateurs use CW. That tends to get through static, plus we also use
phonetics on the voice bands for those difficult to hear contacts.

I will agree that cell phones sounds like sideband radio to me.
 
T

T

Jan 1, 1970
0
Then one fine day there is a major power outage, the cell tower backups
runs dry and everyone in the area finds zero bars on their cell phone.
That is where point to point communication can save the day, and has
many times.

Exactly. There have been numerous instances where amateur radio has
stepped in to save the day.

Even now in the 21st century if your power goes out for more than 4 to 8
hours you'll lose most cell service. Another 20 or so hours from that
phone service goes.
 
D

D from BC

Jan 1, 1970
0
The band is used by more than that. Yes we amateurs use from the 160m
band up to the 2m band and then into the cm range. CB operators are
strictly 11m which runs form 26.965MHz to 27.405MHz while the amateur
10m runs 28.000MHz to 29.700MHz a whole 1.7MHz of bandwidth.

Yes, we amateurs do use the internet, but we also use the radio.

More than that?
I'm thinkn if the HF band is not used for emergencies, it can be
buzzed with radiated smps noise.


D from BC
British Columbia
Canada.
 
D

D from BC

Jan 1, 1970
0
Exactly. There have been numerous instances where amateur radio has
stepped in to save the day.

Even now in the 21st century if your power goes out for more than 4 to 8
hours you'll lose most cell service. Another 20 or so hours from that
phone service goes.

I think if anyone is serious about communication during a disaster,
they would have a satellite phone (ex:Iridium Motorola 9505) and a
solar charging system.
Unfortunately that's >>$1000.00


D from BC
British Columbia
Canada.
 
J

Jamie

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joerg said:
If you must live with small antennas you have to. One reason my EMC kit
has a LNA.



And we all by new car radios? Nah.


Could use a few more country stations with the old stuff. And I want
Wolfman Jack back!
You old fart@!
 
T

T

Jan 1, 1970
0
I think if anyone is serious about communication during a disaster,
they would have a satellite phone (ex:Iridium Motorola 9505) and a
solar charging system.
Unfortunately that's >>$1000.00


D from BC
British Columbia
Canada.

Sure that might happen but you need to coordinate police and fire too.
 
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