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Is it really that tough out there ? FIRED !

Discussion in 'Electronic Repair' started by [email protected], Jan 30, 2008.

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  1. James Beck

    James Beck Guest

    That makes about as much sense as the other posts.
    How do you get fired by QUITTING if you don't like the conditions?
    Sounds like the old "Who's on first" thing.
    I QUIT!
    You can't quit.
    Why not?
    Because you are FIRED!

  2. Have read it many, many times. The "right" to form a union is not
    specified, and because it may infringe on the rights of others, cannot be
    assumed to be "protected" without more specific enumeration of what that
    right might be. The right to speech and the right to assemble peaceably are
    enumerated rights, but this does not mean that the coersive practices of
    many unions are any more protected than the coersive practices of employers.
    Saying that a "right" is guaranteed by the BOR just because it is not
    enumerated assumes a lot and is a lazy debate tactic.


  3. And the non-union employees have the right to reject your organization,

  4. Then you obviously haven't been paying attention.

    The BOR explicitly states that non-enumerated rights -- states' and
    individual -- are not disparaged. The BOR protects rights -- it does not
    enumerate or proscribe them.

    The right to form associations -- political or otherwise -- is a right that
    is inherent in democracy, and essential to it.

    And please learn to spell coercive.
  5. James Beck

    James Beck Guest

    Oh yeah, try to get on at a "union shop" and not join the union. That
    usually breaks some agreement that the union has coerced the employer
    into agreeing to.

  6. James Beck

    James Beck Guest

    Ah, the spelling correction.
    You can tell a person is grasping at straws when they have to point out
    some little spelling error. The BOR still doesn't give you or any group
    the right to blackmail a company.

  7. I don't see forcing an non-human entity to behave in a "moral" fashion as
  8. Don Bowey

    Don Bowey Guest

    Yes, it is. Obviously, in the situation you outlined, the employee is not a
    (union) represented employee, so you will deal with the employee as you
    wish. Had the employee been a union employee, the situation would never
    occur, as he/she cannot bargain individually with you, nor you with him/her.
  9. James Beck

    James Beck Guest

    And I guess somehow the union is now the moral compass of the world. If
    the company is so immoral, quit and start a more moral company. I guess
    it comes down to, if you really think blackmail is moral just because
    YOU like the end result, you are the immoral one.

  10. James Beck

    James Beck Guest

    OK, so what is the difference?
    So, the union dude comes in and says the lug nut tighteners want another
    $50/wk and better medical benefits, and I say Sorry, there is no budget
    for that and the machine tightens the lugs nuts all they do is hold the
    machine and I don't feel they deserve $50 more a week and you say fine
    then we aren't coming back to work until you feel like the job is worth
    that. So, if I now fire all the lug nut tighteners and hire people that
    are willing to work for those wages, what is the difference and the
    problem, other than the number of people?

  11. Guest

    I was a troubleshooter, a very highly respected position at a union
    shop in The Bronx many years ago. We worked on electronic
    countermeasures equipment for the Air Force. I really enjoyed my job
    and I felt that I was doing something important for my country. One
    day the shop steward came over to me and told me that I was doing too
    much work. It seemed that fifteen power supplies a day was too much. I
    was told that the third shift guy was only turning out eight. I told
    the man that "obviously the third shift guy is incompetent and
    probably should not be a troubleshooter". The steward walked away from
    me and I thought that was the end of it until the "goon" showed up. It
    seemed that "they" knew where I lived, they knew who my girlfriend
    was, what kind of cars we drove and as he so aptly put it, " we
    wouldn't want you to do something that you might regret". Luckily I
    had a good relationship with my boss and I told him about this and he
    took me off production and put me on repairs, an area not time
    studied. I was off the hook, but the second shift guy when he was
    similarly approached told them to go pound sand. His car wound up with
    a mysterious case of diabetes on the Brooklyn Queens Expressway one
    night on the way home from work. I loved my job but the Union was an
    ever present obstacle. One could never excell with making the monkeys
    look bad. I left that company because of it. That was 32 years ago and
    I'm quite certain the inmates are still running the asylum. I've run
    my own business for the past 24 years and I would never go back. Just
    my two cents. Lenny

  12. james, you are wasting your time trying to educate this anonymous
    coward. His mind is closed tighter than Jack Benny's vault, and anyone
    who disagrees with him is wrong. He reads what he wants to see in
    whatever you write,. not what you wrote.

    Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
    prove it.
    Member of DAV #85.

    Michael A. Terrell
    Central Florida

  13. The truth hurts, doesn't it? the majority of the world is mindless
    sheep, living for the day, if not the hour. The concept of looking for
    quality and serviceability has been lost by the herd.

    It is if the willing spend money on things they don't understand. DO
    you buy a car, or power tools without looking them over and deciding
    they will meet your needs? Or do you just toss a dart and buy whatever
    piece of crap you hit? If people didn't buy the cheapest piece of shit
    that the Chinese or any other country wants to dump, they would either
    build better equipment, or go out of business. You are a complete and
    utter fool if you think you can place ALL of the blame at the feet of
    the bean counters.

    Their is a lot of joy, when people think before they spend. I walk
    out of stores quite often, because the quality isn't there. I don't put
    up with shoddy products, or service.

    I quit that job after four years, and I did it the day they announced
    changes that I didn't like. Try it some time. Be a man (if you can). I
    had to move to another state to find another good job, and turned down
    several crappy offers in the process. One was Chief Engineer of WRGT TV
    in Dayton, Ohio, because the pay and working conditions were crap.

    That's what a real man does. I have no idea what you would do. In
    fact, I stopped to pick up something on the way home and ran into a TV
    news crew from WXIX in Cincinnati. they showed a microphone in my face
    and asked, "How do you deal with stress on the job?" I smiled and told
    them that i had just quit my job, and kept walking.

    Bullshit. I would have picked scrap metal before I would work in a
    union shop. I grew up in a steel town. The jerks were always
    threatening to walk out, and did several times. They finally hurt the
    company so bad that they had to sell out. It was bought by a japanese
    company. As soon as the new managers arrived, the union people were
    there with more demands, and threats. They just smiled and told them to
    walk out if they wanted to, because they intended to shut the plant down
    and dismantle it at the first opportunity.

    Drivel? That's exactly what I expect from someone who need 'Mommy
    Union' to do their thinking.

    Sigh. once again you reading and cognitive skills are completely
    missing. Tell me something, B(ozo). How can you even compose a message
    with so few working neurons?

    See? you make judgments with no information whatsoever. There was
    no exploitation. The workers had some of the highest pay in town and a
    guarantee that as long as the company was in business the mexican plant
    would remain open for a minimum of 20 years. As far as the US workers,
    if the company hadn't opened the plant in Mexico they would have been
    out of business within 90 days and there would have been no jobs for
    them to go back to. Defense contracts have some severe penalty,
    especially when delivering critical military supplies during wartime.

    Uncalled for? Where is that 'wonderful' union solidarity? Since the
    AFL-CIO is behind him, you are disloyal not to back him.

    Once again your absolute ignorance exceeds your excessive arrogance.
    That SIG file refers to having served in the US Army, during the Vietnam
    Era. I was a broadcast engineer in the US Army at the time, and it had
    absolutely nothing to do with your perverted fantasy union life. BTW,
    do YOU know what the DAV is?

    Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
    prove it.
    Member of DAV #85.

    Michael A. Terrell
    Central Florida
  14. Don Bowey

    Don Bowey Guest

    I'm out of date on the question of Open Shop and Closed Shop.
  15. Don Bowey

    Don Bowey Guest

    You may be FOS. I believe it is the employer who coerces the Union to accept
    an Open Shop.
  16. Don Bowey

    Don Bowey Guest

    Who is being blackmailed and specifically how? Or is this just more mud
  17. Don Bowey

    Don Bowey Guest

    No, as a supervisor or manager of a union workforce you would know better
    than to say that to the union dude, so the rest of what you say is totally

    Here's how it would go: So, the union dude comes in and says the lug nut
    tighteners want another $50/wk and better medical benefits, and I say to
    him, sorry, you know these are bargaining issues. Take this up with your
    Union Steward and if she/he wants to, they can take it to your bargaining
    team for next time the contract is negotiated.

    At that point the Steward *will* support the management reply and that will
    be the end of it until the next bargaining session prior to the contract
    running out.
  18. b

    b Guest

    well, thanks for confirming what i had suspected. It's precisely that
    sort of view of people which has laid the groundwork for tyranny
    throughout history!
    ...which i didn't, I merely pointed out that not everyone is tech-
    savvy, and not necessarily through any fault of their own.

    So, you ran away. Real man-style, then. Truth is, you suffered at the
    hands of your employer who did what he wanted with no regard for you,
    but you're too proud to admit it.
    So what does this prove? that your country is up for sale and the
    workers have no defence. Nice place to live, I'm sure.....
    well thanks once more for another torrent of abuse. A clear sign of
    someone who knows their arguments are shaky and resorts to name
    calling. Clearly you're just a sad old man, sat behind the computer
    with nothing better to do. I actually feel a bit sorry for you.
    (sigh)...Once more you don't seem to grasp the idea that outsourcing
    production to the third world to cut costs (or threatening to in order
    to make the employees work for shit money, precarious contracts and
    worse conditions) is not ethical behaviour. It's an example of
    everything that is wrong with corporate ideology.

  19. I'm inclined to agree/disagree with all of you. Sony isn't doing too well at
    the moment, but the company used to do pretty well with a mix of pricey --
    and often innovative -- products, with more modestly priced items. Unlike
    Polaroid, Sony has not yet ruined its good name. Sony got its reputation for
    the perceived quality of its products.

    Cheap items aren't always junk, and cheap items don't necessarily drive out
    more-expensive items. People are somewhat (but only somewhat) more aware
    than you might think. Back around March I was wandering through Fry's and
    noticed the latest Sony Bravia LCD. My jaw dropped. (I was sorely tempted to
    buy it.) A day later one of the review mags came, frothing at the mouth over
    this model.

    I love my AIBO thing I've ever owned.
  20. I don't think they ever had it. People are more influenced by advertising
    than careful thought.

    I bought a Chinese jukebox -- the iRiver HP-120 -- after careful research,
    and have had no reason to complain. At the time I bought it, it was a much
    better product than any of the iPods. As an audio-only player, it still is.

    Were you married at the time? Having dependents can greatly reduce your
    freedom to make a decision.
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