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Is it really that tough out there ? FIRED !

Discussion in 'Electronic Repair' started by [email protected], Jan 30, 2008.

  1. b

    b Guest

    So your view of people is that they are 'stupid and cheap'? that's a
    bit harsh. And, dare I say, very convenient, as it puts the blame
    neatly on the citizens. You forget that demand is in part created by
    supply. people will buy what is there, since their range of choices ,
    i.e what's available, is dictated by accountants in the electronics
    industry. It is they who ultimately decide what to put out into the
    marketplace. And not every average Joe is a technician or
    knowledgeable about consumer electronics, since it is not the sort of
    thing taught in schools, it's hardly entirely their own fault is it?
    more like a failure of the education system which does not equip
    people with the skills to judge and think about what they're
    consuming. Since there is little part from weak 'consumer
    legislation' to force companies to put serviceability before profits,
    what usually happens is, the formerly good brands end up cutting costs
    to compete with the cheaper ones and the whole quality level goes
    down. Oh, the joys of a free market...
    And if your boss had decided to make those changes (very common in
    non-unionized employer-employee relationships) then that would have
    been ok, right? Time to trot out the old chestnut, 'oh, I'll just
    find another job if i don't like it.'
    Well one of the things about unions is that you can stand for
    positions and later uses the democratic process to change what you
    don't like... instead of asking what your union could do for you, you
    could have asked what you could have done for your union ;-)
    thanks for sharing all that unsolicited biographical drivel with us -
    NOT! None of which had anything at all to do with the argument. I see
    that modesty is not to be found in your list of qualifications...

    Have you ever done
    You clearly feel it was more important for the business to emulate
    exploitative practises which enabled those imports to be made more
    cheaply, instead of setting a standard - don't you think that those
    people had any right to defend their jobs? It's all about profit with
    you people.
    yeah, i wonder under what conditions...? So you are suggesting that it
    was better for the US plant to close costing jobs, and move to exploit

    You truly are a
    The only thing I have to respond to this abuse, which is neither
    called for nor deserved, is that coming from an adult on a science
    newsgroup, it's pathetic.

    Service to your country? service to corporate elites more like. one
    day you might see that there are millions of workers out there whose
    rights are in dire need of defending.

  2. James Sweet

    James Sweet Guest

    It's more complex than that. You may offer a higher quality yet more
    expensive product, refusing to make cheap junk, yet your competitor will put
    out cheap junk and people will buy that instead, forcing you to either put
    out equally cheap junk to compete, or drop out of the market. There's no one
    cause of it and I don't know how to fix it, but I avoid buying cheap junk
    whenever I can. It leads to me buying much less new stuff, but the new stuff
    that I do buy is usually nice.
  3. The Bill of Rights explicitly protects all rights NOT specified in it. (Read
    it.) The right to organize to advance one's POV, agenda, etc, is a right
    essential to any democracy.
  4. But they rarely do. Take a look at the 19th century.

    In other words, businesses should never pay their employees well, for any
    reason. (See your preceding remark.)
  5. GregS

    GregS Guest

    What caused the unions to be formed ? The companies.

  6. James Beck

    James Beck Guest

    Lucky rest of us live in the 21st century.
    Supply and demand. Skilled work pays better than non-skilled.
    Hazardous work pays better than non-hazardous.
    The only thing that you make apparent is EXACTLY why unions have more
    than out lived their usefulness.

    What was it you said ...
    I would say it is the worker's problem too, but you are too much of a
    union butt boy to see the very words you write. Jeez.

  7. James Beck

    James Beck Guest

    Sure, but your rights end where they infringe on mine.
    I have the right to own and run my business as I see fit.
    How does your right to organize trump that? It doesn't.

  8. Of course I knew that when I wrote it. But I wonder what would happen if a
    major union had the guts to drag a major company into bankruptcy. It might
    teach everyone a lesson.
  9. That also works the other way around.

    Businesses have a basic right to fire employees, for any number of reasons.
    But to fire union employees for no other reason than that they're on strike,
    violates the employees' right to protest their working conditions. And that
    _has_ to be considered a civil right. It's necessary to acknowledge such
    rights to restore a degree of balance in worker/employee relations.

    As I and others have said, if businesses respected their employees, and they
    worked together toward common goals, there would be little or need for

    All you care about is whether businesses make profits, without regard to how
    those profits are made, or how they're used. Incorporated businesses are not
    human beings, and have zero human rights. It is the responsibility of
    society (and to a lesser degree, government), to force businesses to use
    their power responsibly.
  10. James Beck

    James Beck Guest

    What lesson would that be?
    That unions are nothing but mindless bullies that are more interested in
    throwing their power around than doing good?
  11. James Beck

    James Beck Guest

    Only in the mind of a union lackey.
    If I hired you to do a job and you agreed to the pay and benefits that's
    the deal. If you don't like the deal and the employer is unwilling to,
    for what ever reason, to sweeten the pot then the employee can go
    elsewhere. There should be no government backing of an employee that
    won't work. If you ask for a raise and you don't get it, well then it
    is up to you to decide whether it is worth keeping the job.
    There is no need for them now.
    Like I said they only exist to wrest rightful control of a business from
    the owner(s). Nothing more.
    What a bunch of crap.
    Keep paying those dues boy, keep paying those dues.
    Gotta' pay to keep that brain adequately washed.
  12. Don Bowey

    Don Bowey Guest

    You need to correct that thinking. If I am an organizer, my rights to
    *attempt* to organize your workforce do *not* end, regardless of your wishes
    or how you run your company. If you fire your persuaded employees and
    attempt to hire new ones, I will picket your business and attempt to
    organize your new people. My union position would only be altered if you
    provided wages, benefits and working conditions that are at least equal to
    union shops. That's how things are.
  13. Don Bowey

    Don Bowey Guest

    You've been reading too many cheap novels.
  14. Don Bowey

    Don Bowey Guest

    OK, I was wrong. You haven't been reading too many cheap novels. Your just
    a close-minded greedy person.
  15. Of course I knew that when I wrote it. But I wonder what would happen
    Substitute "businesses" for "unions" and you have another possible lesson.
  16. My mind is Rinso Blue clean!

    I'm the one standing outside the box.
  17. James Beck

    James Beck Guest

    That's fine.
    I have a problem with the idea that you can't fire a union member just
    because they are on strike.
    You have the right to say or do what ever you want outside the doors of
    another's business.
    If employee 'A' comes to me and says "I want a raise and better
    benefits" and I say "Sorry, not enough spare money", or "Sorry, you just
    aren't doing a job that warrants that kind of compensation" and his
    response is "Well, then I'm not coming back to work until you change
    your mind". I would tell that employee to take all the time they need
    and spend it in the unemployment line. Isn't that my right as a
    business owner?

  18. James Beck

    James Beck Guest

    Possible, but not one I've seen.
    Now the opposite has been true far too many times.
    I'll bet all those Eastern Airlines people are still loving that union
    of theirs.
  19. James Beck

    James Beck Guest

    How am I greedy?
    I have practiced what I preached.
    When I didn't like the working conditions where I was I either got a
    better deal or moved on. Nothing greedy about it, just simple economics
    and I never needed a union to do it for me.

  20. Guest

    In todays ''World'',,,,, you practice what you preach,,, you get fired!

    I wanderrred againnnnnn,,,,,, to me home in the Moutnains,,,,,, (Wales)
    by Peace earrrrrly dawnnnnnn,,,,,,, by the practice,,,,,,, I will
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