Maker Pro
Maker Pro

Is it really that tough out there ? FIRED !

B

b

Jan 1, 1970
0
It is the consumer's fault that so much throw away crap is built,
because they are too stupid and too cheap to buy quality, repairable
equipment.

So your view of people is that they are 'stupid and cheap'? that's a
bit harsh. And, dare I say, very convenient, as it puts the blame
neatly on the citizens. You forget that demand is in part created by
supply. people will buy what is there, since their range of choices ,
i.e what's available, is dictated by accountants in the electronics
industry. It is they who ultimately decide what to put out into the
marketplace. And not every average Joe is a technician or
knowledgeable about consumer electronics, since it is not the sort of
thing taught in schools, it's hardly entirely their own fault is it?
more like a failure of the education system which does not equip
people with the skills to judge and think about what they're
consuming. Since there is little part from weak 'consumer
legislation' to force companies to put serviceability before profits,
what usually happens is, the formerly good brands end up cutting costs
to compete with the cheaper ones and the whole quality level goes
down. Oh, the joys of a free market...
had the IBEW try to unionize the cable TV company I
worked for. They GUARANTEED me $2.50 an hour less than I was >making, a week's less vacation, no unwanted

And if your boss had decided to make those changes (very common in
non-unionized employer-employee relationships) then that would have
been ok, right? Time to trot out the old chestnut, 'oh, I'll just
find another job if i don't like it.'
Well one of the things about unions is that you can stand for
positions and later uses the democratic process to change what you
don't like... instead of asking what your union could do for you, you
could have asked what you could have done for your union ;-)
Don't try to put words in my mouth, stooge. You don't even have the
guts to use your name online, yet you are trying to preach your ignorant
unionism crap. My first job was in a TV shop when I was 13. I worked
full time at another shop (That also did industrial electronics) for two
years after I graduated. Then I was called up for the draft. I was
given five separate 4F ratings for health problems, but they drafted me
anyway, because of my electronics background. While in basic training,
I tested out of the three year course US Army electronics school at Ft.
Monmoth and was awarded the M.O.S. of broadcast engineer. I worked with
CATV headends, CARS, and weather equipment, RADAR, the world's first
emergency alert system that took control of 13 CATV systems around Ft.
Rucker and delivered emergency information on all 12 channels on all the
systems. I have built a TV station from an empty building, moved radio
stations, and built studios.

I worked as a broadcast engineer in both radio & TV, owned and
operated an industrial electronics repair business for years, repaired
computers to the component level, sold and serviced business radio
systems, did Quality Assurance in an electronics defense plant, and at
the end of my career, I worked as a production and engineering test tech
for the world leader in modular telemetry equipment.

thanks for sharing all that unsolicited biographical drivel with us -
NOT! None of which had anything at all to do with the argument. I see
that modesty is not to be found in your list of qualifications...

Have you ever done
anything but push unions? Do you know why it was so hard to remove car
radios for repair? The union fought the change to a through the dash
design that could be done by a single employee, rather than the six
people the current system used. That drove up the price of US built
cars, along with other stupid union labor intensive steps that slowed
production, lowered quality and allowed the imports to take over the
market.

You clearly feel it was more important for the business to emulate
exploitative practises which enabled those imports to be made more
cheaply, instead of setting a standard - don't you think that those
people had any right to defend their jobs? It's all about profit with
you people.
Allow it? They were all for it. They needed the radios and
shipboard RADAR equipment for the US military, and the idiot union was
determined to stay out for years. The idiots in the union told them
they couldn't be replaced, because all their jobs required VERY high
skill levels. Two weeks after the plant in Mexico opened, former farm
workers were doing quite well at their jobs.

yeah, i wonder under what conditions...? So you are suggesting that it
was better for the US plant to close costing jobs, and move to exploit
mexicans.

You truly are a
brainwashed union stooge.

BTW, you should be out there kissing Obama's union loving ass instead
of wasting our time on a repair newsgroup.

The only thing I have to respond to this abuse, which is neither
called for nor deserved, is that coming from an adult on a science
newsgroup, it's pathetic.

Service to your country? service to corporate elites more like. one
day you might see that there are millions of workers out there whose
rights are in dire need of defending.

-B
 
J

James Sweet

Jan 1, 1970
0
So your view of people is that they are 'stupid and cheap'? that's a
bit harsh. And, dare I say, very convenient, as it puts the blame
neatly on the citizens. You forget that demand is in part created by
supply. people will buy what is there, since their range of choices ,
i.e what's available, is dictated by accountants in the electronics
industry. It is they who ultimately decide what to put out into the
marketplace. And not every average Joe is a technician or
knowledgeable about consumer electronics, since it is not the sort of
thing taught in schools, it's hardly entirely their own fault is it?
more like a failure of the education system which does not equip
people with the skills to judge and think about what they're
consuming. Since there is little part from weak 'consumer
legislation' to force companies to put serviceability before profits,
what usually happens is, the formerly good brands end up cutting costs
to compete with the cheaper ones and the whole quality level goes
down. Oh, the joys of a free market...


It's more complex than that. You may offer a higher quality yet more
expensive product, refusing to make cheap junk, yet your competitor will put
out cheap junk and people will buy that instead, forcing you to either put
out equally cheap junk to compete, or drop out of the market. There's no one
cause of it and I don't know how to fix it, but I avoid buying cheap junk
whenever I can. It leads to me buying much less new stuff, but the new stuff
that I do buy is usually nice.
 
W

William Sommerwerck

Jan 1, 1970
0
You seem to have added a right that is not found in the BOR.
Exactly where is that right specified?

The Bill of Rights explicitly protects all rights NOT specified in it. (Read
it.) The right to organize to advance one's POV, agenda, etc, is a right
essential to any democracy.
 
W

William Sommerwerck

Jan 1, 1970
0
You are correct. Good jobs don't grow on trees. People
who own businesses make profits and can afford to pay
people well.

But they rarely do. Take a look at the 19th century.

Good paying jobs are also created by union coersion [sic],
and businesses that survive in spite of it are often doomed
to becoming non-competitive in the market.

In other words, businesses should never pay their employees well, for any
reason. (See your preceding remark.)
 
G

GregS

Jan 1, 1970
0
All a "union" is, is a government sanctioned way to wrest control of a
company from the rightful owner.

What caused the unions to be formed ? The companies.

greg
 
J

James Beck

Jan 1, 1970
0
But they rarely do. Take a look at the 19th century.
Lucky rest of us live in the 21st century.
Good paying jobs are also created by union coersion [sic],
and businesses that survive in spite of it are often doomed
to becoming non-competitive in the market.

In other words, businesses should never pay their employees well, for any
reason. (See your preceding remark.)

Supply and demand. Skilled work pays better than non-skilled.
Hazardous work pays better than non-hazardous.
The only thing that you make apparent is EXACTLY why unions have more
than out lived their usefulness.

What was it you said ...
Having to? I thought businesses were free to do as they liked.
Who cares if a strike destroys a company? That's the company's problem.

I would say it is the worker's problem too, but you are too much of a
union butt boy to see the very words you write. Jeez.

Jim
 
J

James Beck

Jan 1, 1970
0
The Bill of Rights explicitly protects all rights NOT specified in it. (Read
it.) The right to organize to advance one's POV, agenda, etc, is a right
essential to any democracy.
Sure, but your rights end where they infringe on mine.
I have the right to own and run my business as I see fit.
How does your right to organize trump that? It doesn't.

Jim
 
W

William Sommerwerck

Jan 1, 1970
0
What was it you said ...
I would say it is the worker's problem too, but you are too much
of a union butt boy to see the very words you write. Jeez.

Of course I knew that when I wrote it. But I wonder what would happen if a
major union had the guts to drag a major company into bankruptcy. It might
teach everyone a lesson.
 
W

William Sommerwerck

Jan 1, 1970
0
James Beck said:
Sure, but your rights end where they infringe on mine.
I have the right to own and run my business as I see fit.
How does your right to organize trump that? It doesn't.

That also works the other way around.

Businesses have a basic right to fire employees, for any number of reasons.
But to fire union employees for no other reason than that they're on strike,
violates the employees' right to protest their working conditions. And that
_has_ to be considered a civil right. It's necessary to acknowledge such
rights to restore a degree of balance in worker/employee relations.

As I and others have said, if businesses respected their employees, and they
worked together toward common goals, there would be little or need for
unions.

All you care about is whether businesses make profits, without regard to how
those profits are made, or how they're used. Incorporated businesses are not
human beings, and have zero human rights. It is the responsibility of
society (and to a lesser degree, government), to force businesses to use
their power responsibly.
 
J

James Beck

Jan 1, 1970
0
Of course I knew that when I wrote it. But I wonder what would happen if a
major union had the guts to drag a major company into bankruptcy. It might
teach everyone a lesson.

What lesson would that be?
That unions are nothing but mindless bullies that are more interested in
throwing their power around than doing good?
 
J

James Beck

Jan 1, 1970
0
That also works the other way around.

Businesses have a basic right to fire employees, for any number of reasons.
But to fire union employees for no other reason than that they're on strike,
violates the employees' right to protest their working conditions. And that
_has_ to be considered a civil right. It's necessary to acknowledge such
rights to restore a degree of balance in worker/employee relations.
Only in the mind of a union lackey.
If I hired you to do a job and you agreed to the pay and benefits that's
the deal. If you don't like the deal and the employer is unwilling to,
for what ever reason, to sweeten the pot then the employee can go
elsewhere. There should be no government backing of an employee that
won't work. If you ask for a raise and you don't get it, well then it
is up to you to decide whether it is worth keeping the job.
As I and others have said, if businesses respected their employees, and they
worked together toward common goals, there would be little or need for
unions.
There is no need for them now.
Like I said they only exist to wrest rightful control of a business from
the owner(s). Nothing more.
All you care about is whether businesses make profits, without regard to how
those profits are made, or how they're used. Incorporated businesses are not
human beings, and have zero human rights. It is the responsibility of
society (and to a lesser degree, government), to force businesses to use
their power responsibly.
What a bunch of crap.
Keep paying those dues boy, keep paying those dues.
Gotta' pay to keep that brain adequately washed.
 
D

Don Bowey

Jan 1, 1970
0
Sure, but your rights end where they infringe on mine.
I have the right to own and run my business as I see fit.
How does your right to organize trump that? It doesn't.

Jim

You need to correct that thinking. If I am an organizer, my rights to
*attempt* to organize your workforce do *not* end, regardless of your wishes
or how you run your company. If you fire your persuaded employees and
attempt to hire new ones, I will picket your business and attempt to
organize your new people. My union position would only be altered if you
provided wages, benefits and working conditions that are at least equal to
union shops. That's how things are.
 
D

Don Bowey

Jan 1, 1970
0
What lesson would that be?
That unions are nothing but mindless bullies that are more interested in
throwing their power around than doing good?

You've been reading too many cheap novels.
 
D

Don Bowey

Jan 1, 1970
0
Only in the mind of a union lackey.
If I hired you to do a job and you agreed to the pay and benefits that's
the deal. If you don't like the deal and the employer is unwilling to,
for what ever reason, to sweeten the pot then the employee can go
elsewhere. There should be no government backing of an employee that
won't work. If you ask for a raise and you don't get it, well then it
is up to you to decide whether it is worth keeping the job.

There is no need for them now.
Like I said they only exist to wrest rightful control of a business from
the owner(s). Nothing more.

What a bunch of crap.
Keep paying those dues boy, keep paying those dues.
Gotta' pay to keep that brain adequately washed.

OK, I was wrong. You haven't been reading too many cheap novels. Your just
a close-minded greedy person.
 
W

William Sommerwerck

Jan 1, 1970
0
Of course I knew that when I wrote it. But I wonder what would happen
What lesson would that be?
That unions are nothing but mindless bullies that are more interested in
throwing their power around than doing good?

Substitute "businesses" for "unions" and you have another possible lesson.
 
W

William Sommerwerck

Jan 1, 1970
0
What a bunch of crap.
Keep paying those dues boy, keep paying those dues.
Gotta' pay to keep that brain adequately washed.

My mind is Rinso Blue clean!

I'm the one standing outside the box.
 
J

James Beck

Jan 1, 1970
0
You need to correct that thinking. If I am an organizer, my rights to
*attempt* to organize your workforce do *not* end, regardless of your wishes
or how you run your company. If you fire your persuaded employees and
attempt to hire new ones, I will picket your business and attempt to
organize your new people. My union position would only be altered if you
provided wages, benefits and working conditions that are at least equal to
union shops. That's how things are.

That's fine.
I have a problem with the idea that you can't fire a union member just
because they are on strike.
You have the right to say or do what ever you want outside the doors of
another's business.
If employee 'A' comes to me and says "I want a raise and better
benefits" and I say "Sorry, not enough spare money", or "Sorry, you just
aren't doing a job that warrants that kind of compensation" and his
response is "Well, then I'm not coming back to work until you change
your mind". I would tell that employee to take all the time they need
and spend it in the unemployment line. Isn't that my right as a
business owner?

Jim
 
J

James Beck

Jan 1, 1970
0
Substitute "businesses" for "unions" and you have another possible lesson.
Possible, but not one I've seen.
Now the opposite has been true far too many times.
I'll bet all those Eastern Airlines people are still loving that union
of theirs.
 
J

James Beck

Jan 1, 1970
0
OK, I was wrong. You haven't been reading too many cheap novels. Your just
a close-minded greedy person.

How am I greedy?
I have practiced what I preached.
When I didn't like the working conditions where I was I either got a
better deal or moved on. Nothing greedy about it, just simple economics
and I never needed a union to do it for me.

Jim
 
In todays ''World'',,,,, you practice what you preach,,, you get fired!

..........................................................
I wanderrred againnnnnn,,,,,, to me home in the Moutnains,,,,,, (Wales)
by Peace earrrrrly dawnnnnnn,,,,,,, by the practice,,,,,,, I will
seeeeeeeee,,,,,,,,
cuhulin
 
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