Maker Pro
Maker Pro

Interfacing to parallel port dongle via USB adapter

J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim said:
Jim said:
On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 11:07:21 -0700, Joerg

Jim Thompson wrote:
[snip]
And, knock on wood, my "wrench shop" PC's outlast the steps in
technology. Actually all I've _ever_ had fail over the years is hard
drives.

Didn't you have a RAM reliability problem a while ago? As for technology
I often use PCs a decade or longer. Steps in technology are not always
forward steps. As evidenced in the latest, ahem, "new and improved" OS
developments ;-)
Don't know quite why, but it was mixed size strips that was the
problem.

I was told it was OK to use mixed sizes, providing Strip1 matches
Strip2 and Strip3 matches Strip4. 'Tain't so :-(
I've done mixed sizes in a Dell laptop once and it worked fine. A PC is
supposed to let you know when it doesn't like that. Maybe you should
have bought a brand name PC after all ...

You are well-known for your cheapness. Want to compare what I paid
versus what you paid ?:)

AFAIR the Dell desktop was around $550, with Dual-Core and 2GB RAM,
_with_ warranty, remote diagnostics and all that. Keyboard and mouse
came with it but sans monitor. The 24h helpline really does work.

I think nowadays they even have one with similar processor and less RAM
for $299 but that's probably from their consumer group. No idea what
level of support that would include.
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim said:
Jim said:
On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:34:02 GMT, Joerg

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 11:07:21 -0700, Joerg

Jim Thompson wrote:
[snip]
And, knock on wood, my "wrench shop" PC's outlast the steps in
technology. Actually all I've _ever_ had fail over the years is hard
drives.

Didn't you have a RAM reliability problem a while ago? As for technology
I often use PCs a decade or longer. Steps in technology are not always
forward steps. As evidenced in the latest, ahem, "new and improved" OS
developments ;-)
Don't know quite why, but it was mixed size strips that was the
problem.

I was told it was OK to use mixed sizes, providing Strip1 matches
Strip2 and Strip3 matches Strip4. 'Tain't so :-(

I've done mixed sizes in a Dell laptop once and it worked fine. A PC is
supposed to let you know when it doesn't like that. Maybe you should
have bought a brand name PC after all ...
You are well-known for your cheapness. Want to compare what I paid
versus what you paid ?:)
AFAIR the Dell desktop was around $550, with Dual-Core and 2GB RAM,
_with_ warranty, remote diagnostics and all that. Keyboard and mouse
came with it but sans monitor. The 24h helpline really does work.

I think nowadays they even have one with similar processor and less RAM
for $299 but that's probably from their consumer group. No idea what
level of support that would include.

You need "support" to _run_ a PC... from someone who can't speak
English ?:) (I've called Dell "support" for my father. It's from
the Philippines... and the "English" is incomprehensible.)

It was during configuration where I often have to do some weird stuff.
Like starting scans via a command that comes in on the LAN. Most PCs
initially do not like that.

The support was actually pretty good but the accent was definitely Hindi.

My last AMD Athlon 64 (3400+) with dual-monitor video, 2GB RAM and
150GB HD was ~$600. And 1 year warranty.

_If_ I needed help, it's just down the street ;-)

That can work very well if they have the know-how. But not at 10:00pm I
guess.
 
J

JeffM

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joerg said:
Steps in technology are not always forward steps.
As evidenced in the latest, ahem, "new and improved"
OS developments ;-)
^^
Microsoft OS
There. Fixed that for you.

At the same time that M$ is trying to push mostly-unfinished crap,
you have to get out your machete to get thru all the glowing reviews
that follow the releases of OS X and Ubuntu versions.

....and WRT Dell (I note Jan Panteltje's post):
They are the closest thing I see to the Mom & Pop shops
when it comes to giving the customer what he wants.
(You've already mentioned the Ships-with-XP option.)

They also have several business Linux options
(software support thru 3rd parties)
and there is a pre-installed Ubuntu option for individuals.
Their Ubuntu rollout wasn't spectacular because of a plain vanilla
install
http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/09/17/153210&threshold=5&mode=nested#20640119
--without even a simple script included/enabled
http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/09/17/153210&threshold=5&mode=nested#20638599
....and, of course, all the bitching was due to *software patents*
and the things those screw up.
http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/09/17/153210&threshold=5&mode=nested#20639409
http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/09/17/153210&threshold=5&mode=nested

The fact that Dell ships pre-installed Linux of *any* flavor,
however, means that all the hardware has Linux device drivers
so, if you don't like Dell's install or choice of distro,
you can just install *your* favorite (without rebooting 42 times).

I'm wondering what JT is going to do with all those copies of XP
when M$ decides to shut down their XP activation servers
to try to extort everyone yet again
and force purchases of the latest version of their crapware.
..
..
If you surf with JavaScript disabled,
just insert &no_d2=1 into any Slashdot URLs.
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
JeffM said:
^^
Microsoft OS
There. Fixed that for you.

At the same time that M$ is trying to push mostly-unfinished crap,
you have to get out your machete to get thru all the glowing reviews
that follow the releases of OS X and Ubuntu versions.

...and WRT Dell (I note Jan Panteltje's post):
They are the closest thing I see to the Mom & Pop shops
when it comes to giving the customer what he wants.
(You've already mentioned the Ships-with-XP option.)

Yes, they have the feel of a mom&pop shop and I like that. Heck, they
even offer to remove the loboto-ware and nagware off of the PC.

They also have several business Linux options
(software support thru 3rd parties)
and there is a pre-installed Ubuntu option for individuals.
Their Ubuntu rollout wasn't spectacular because of a plain vanilla
install
http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/09/17/153210&threshold=5&mode=nested#20640119
--without even a simple script included/enabled
http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/09/17/153210&threshold=5&mode=nested#20638599
...and, of course, all the bitching was due to *software patents*
and the things those screw up.
http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/09/17/153210&threshold=5&mode=nested#20639409
http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/09/17/153210&threshold=5&mode=nested

The fact that Dell ships pre-installed Linux of *any* flavor,
however, means that all the hardware has Linux device drivers
so, if you don't like Dell's install or choice of distro,
you can just install *your* favorite (without rebooting 42 times).

I'm wondering what JT is going to do with all those copies of XP
when M$ decides to shut down their XP activation servers
to try to extort everyone yet again
and force purchases of the latest version of their crapware.


No idea what it is with those servers. I bought three PCs with XP so far
and fully configured them without any registration in Redmond. I just
keep the license stickers in the respective manila folders like usual.
My old rule is to configure PCs with the LAN cable unplugged. Always.
Oh, and no auto-updates or any of that. Except for anti-virus software,
of course, but that isn't from Microsoft.
 
H

Hattori Hanzo

Jan 1, 1970
0
Sounds like a major science project, IMHO not worth it. I'd switch to a
better CAD software. Mine does not need a dongle and I most certainly
would not have bought it if it did. To me a dongle has about the level
of professionalism as a circuit board with the part numbers filed off.


Regardless, that was the only way certain software apps were sold for
about a ten year period. For you not to know that really says a lot
about your experiences.

The dongle was not about a lack of professionalism, idiot. It was
about KEEPING things professional and keeping authentication where it
belongs... somewhere besides within the software itself. To keep
software theft to a minimum, that segment of the industry used dongles.

You're lucky it didn't catch on, or we might all have a USB dongle stick
on our machines where everything from the OS to a text editor might need
a chip added to the stick.
 
H

Hattori Hanzo

Jan 1, 1970
0
Vista
is not acceptable to me.


You're a fucking retard. What are you going to do when that is all there
is available?

When we all changed to toilet paper, did your family keep using their
left forefinger to wipe their asses for another 50 years before they
finally realized there was something newer and better in use all over the
world?
 
H

Hattori Hanzo

Jan 1, 1970
0
My experience with wrench shop PCs isn't that great. And yeah, AMD chips
are good for math intense stuff but nowadays the processor isn't the
pacing item in a PC. This one has an Intel dual core and it's faster
than I'll ever need. Also, my real simulator is a DSO and a Weller :)


Bullshit. Intel surpassed AMD with their last iteration of CPUs, and
for math, the CELL CPU included in IBM cell blades and the PS3 computer
will run circles around ANY PC on the planet! By nearly a factor of ten!

You want fast simulations? Run it on a PS3 or a PS3 cluster.
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hattori said:
Regardless, that was the only way certain software apps were sold for
about a ten year period. For you not to know that really says a lot
about your experiences.

Nope. Why then did OrCad SDT sell sans dongle? In Europe they sold with
dongle so while I was living there I bought it in the US. Very simple.
SPICE was sold without dongle. Same with all the beam field simulators
and so on. So, tell us, which software was there that someone you deem
"experienced" would have absolutely needed and where there was no
non-dongle alternative?

The dongle was not about a lack of professionalism, idiot. It was
about KEEPING things professional and keeping authentication where it
belongs... somewhere besides within the software itself. To keep
software theft to a minimum, that segment of the industry used dongles.

Right. And then the printer wouldn't work anymore or the whole stack of
dongles broke the D-Sub off. Seen it several times. Very professional
indeed. The worst one was where the stack cracked the first dongle in
line and the SW mfg balked at replacing it without forking over a major
wad of cash. Also very professional, ain't it?

You're lucky it didn't catch on, or we might all have a USB dongle stick
on our machines where everything from the OS to a text editor might need
a chip added to the stick.


There are reasons why it diodn't catch on. Some them were outlined in
this here thread ;-)
 
H

Hattori Hanzo

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim Thompson wrote: [snip]
And, knock on wood, my "wrench shop" PC's outlast the steps in
technology. Actually all I've _ever_ had fail over the years is hard
drives.

Didn't you have a RAM reliability problem a while ago? As for technology
I often use PCs a decade or longer. Steps in technology are not always
forward steps. As evidenced in the latest, ahem, "new and improved" OS
developments ;-)

Don't know quite why, but it was mixed size strips that was the
problem.

I was told it was OK to use mixed sizes, providing Strip1 matches
Strip2 and Strip3 matches Strip4. 'Tain't so :-(


Idiot! They are in banks! So it would be 1 and 3... 2 and 4.

You never were very bright.
 
H

Hattori Hanzo

Jan 1, 1970
0
You are well-known for your cheapness. Want to compare what I paid
versus what you paid ?:)

...Jim Thompson


You do not know anyone here, much less any degree of "cheapness" they
might possess.
 
P

Peter

Jan 1, 1970
0
Paul Urbanus said:
If you can reverse engineer your hardware key (and you are a legitimate
owner of the software), then maybe you could write a kernel level driver
that would emulate the parallel port. I'm a hardware guy and I don't
know diddly about writing kernel level drivers - so this last suggestion
may not be realistic. I have done some looking at dongle communication,
and they much more sophisticated than the old Xilinx days of the 'AA',
'AB', and 'AC' hardware keys, which were easy to duplicate (only
requiring some CMOS counters and gates).

That reminds me...

In the 1990s I paid some 5 digits for Xilinx software, for some
specific consultancy projects I used to do then. One of the dongles
(two of them) failed but they would not replace it. So I found some
Russian who cracked it. I ended up with cracked Viewlogic 4 (Xilinx
version) and XACT 6.something. All undongled! Last time I used it was
1996 but it would still run today. The only problem was Viewlogic
which required an 8514-emulating video card to do 1024x768; I still
have the mach32 video card which did that...

This kind of issue is why I still use Protel PCB 2.8 - I have the
dongle but I picked up a patch in 1995. Runs on my latest PC fine.

I also have a box full of Autocad dongles from the 1980s...

Generally, one can patch the program to avoid the dongle check and
this is the easiest way.
 
J

John Tserkezis

Jan 1, 1970
0
You're a fucking retard. What are you going to do when that is all there
is available?

Grow a brain, idiot. The computer industry does indeed extend past your
bedroom you know. There are greater implications that just running Internet
Explorer and Outlook Express.
Believe it or not, some people make entire companies out of writing
software, and more importantly they're NOT called Microsoft.

Since you simply don't understand, I'll try to explain. (listen carefully,
I'm not going to use crayon).

He (the OP) will do what everyone else will do. Downgrade to XP.

We're planning to stay with XP for the next few years (2-3 years perhaps?)
and we're absolutely guaranteed to see the arse end of commercially available
XP very, very soon (if not already).

We can legally run an earlier version of windows on boxes with Vista
licences here, and WILL do that, regardless of what M$ or you tell us what we
"should" have.

For the time being, for new boxes, we have limited choices (all are vista
except for a few exceptions), but get our suppliers to do the XP downgrade
where applicable for us.

We're buying lots of hardware over the year, so we have that sort of clout
(as opposed to joe average who buys one unit every few years). And where
that's not possible, we install the OS ourselves (though prefer not to due to
time constraints).


At the end of the day, it's more important to us that we have computers that
actually *work* rather than lots of very inefficient room heaters that make
wirring noises, and have sexy blue lights.

We have lots of software at this stage that does not work under vista, and
from the initial looks of things will never work, short of an upgrade.

So, until ALL the software we have has been tested to work under Vista, like
the OP: Vista is not acceptable to us either.
 
J

John Tserkezis

Jan 1, 1970
0
Peter said:
Generally, one can patch the program to avoid the dongle check and
this is the easiest way.

Unfortunately, this is not a legal option. When you have dozens of licences
to handle, it makes it a little more difficult.

Presently for Autocad, (and other cad offerings) we have a licence server
that dishes out licences to users as they run the software up.

Short of upgrading our servers, (before we test it, and transfer everything
over first) that's going to continue to work.


Running hacked versions concurrently with documented legal paid licences
doesn't cut it, it's still technically piracy, and we simply can't afford to
wear the fines if it came to that.


The legals are much more grey when you are running software where the vendor
doesn't actually exist anymore (so there's no-one to chase you), but all of
that is upgraded as we go along anyway, so is still a moot point.
 
H

Hattori Hanzo

Jan 1, 1970
0
Grow a brain, idiot. The computer industry does indeed extend past your
bedroom you know. There are greater implications that just running Internet
Explorer and Outlook Express.

I do not run either, you fucking retarded twit.
Believe it or not, some people make entire companies out of writing
software, and more importantly they're NOT called Microsoft.

Oh boy! A lot of them develop on MS tools. A lot of them develop FOR
MS tools. Many work in the Unix/Linux realm. Whoopie fucking doo. That
still does not mean that you know a goddamned thing about what I know
about the industry.
Since you simply don't understand,

Yet another invalid horseshit spew.
I'll try to explain. (listen carefully,
I'm not going to use crayon).

Oh boy! You should have become a comedian! Not! You're an idiot,
Johnny. Your little barbs prove that.
He (the OP) will do what everyone else will do. Downgrade to XP.

I have every windows OS since v3 here, and I still have hardware that
everything runs on. I also have a modern PC, and it runs a modern OS.
That OS, in this case, is Vista, and it runs fine, you fucking retard.
That has nothing to do with Internet Explorer (I do not do the web,
idiot), nor does it have anything to do with outlook express (I do not do
MS mail clients either, idiot).

I also have Alpha, and PPC machines and OSes associated with them.
You have no clue as to what I do or do not know about the computer realm.
You are, in fact, so far behind that you will never catch up.

We're planning to stay with XP for the next few years (2-3 years perhaps?)

Good for you, idiot.
and we're absolutely guaranteed to see the arse end of commercially available
XP very, very soon (if not already).

No shit. It is no longer needed for any of the new PCs being made,
idiot.
We can legally run an earlier version of windows on boxes with Vista
licences here, and WILL do that, regardless of what M$ or you tell us what we
"should" have.

I didn't say a goddamned thing about "what you should have". I think
you have had a lobotomy, however, and you act as if you need Lithium or
Thorazine to supplement the lobotomy.
For the time being, for new boxes, we have limited choices (all are vista
except for a few exceptions), but get our suppliers to do the XP downgrade
where applicable for us.

Yeah, and you are so fucking retarded that you pay them to do it to.
We're buying lots of hardware over the year,

We are buying a few million dollars worth of PCs alone. Our lab
hardware and instrument budget is much higher.
so we have that sort of clout
(as opposed to joe average who buys one unit every few years).

You are Johnny Retard Assumption Queen. You know nothing about me or
anyone else. You have spent your entire life guessing as you go along. In
this case, and as is usual with you... You are wrong.
And where
that's not possible, we install the OS ourselves (though prefer not to due to
time constraints).

You are a pussy as well, I see. It is cheaper to do in house, unless
you are poorly organized as a company. Is your company poorly organized,
boy?
At the end of the day, it's more important to us that we have computers that
actually *work* rather than lots of very inefficient room heaters that make
wirring noises, and have sexy blue lights.

You are not just a pussy. You are also a retard.

ALL of our PCs work.
We have lots of software at this stage that does not work under vista, and
from the initial looks of things will never work, short of an upgrade.

Lag behind the upgrade curve pussies as well, I see.
So, until ALL the software we have has been tested to work under Vista, like
the OP: Vista is not acceptable to us either.


You are not acceptable as an IT admin. I sure hope that is not what
some idiot has you employed to do.
 
P

Peter

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joerg said:
Nope. Why then did OrCad SDT sell sans dongle? In Europe they sold with
dongle so while I was living there I bought it in the US. Very simple.
SPICE was sold without dongle. Same with all the beam field simulators
and so on. So, tell us, which software was there that someone you deem
"experienced" would have absolutely needed and where there was no
non-dongle alternative?

The original SDT was without a dongle, but I believe SDT/386 did come
with one in Europe. We are talking c. 1993 now. I still run SDT/386
(runs fine in a 640x480 DOS box) but purchased in the USA. If I was
doing heavy schematic design I would knock up a DOS PC with an old
Video-7 1280x1024 video card from Ebay. Such a 'workstation' would be
unbeatable for speed and usability.

The problem with Orcad - and incidentally this is another reason why
so many users have gone on with hacked undongled copies of software
they *bought* - is that while they has a brilliant DOS application,
their windoze offerings were basically crap. I spent a year or two
playing with Orcad for Windoze, here and there, trying to move over to
it but it was full of bugs and the old SDT schematics did not move
into the windoze version properly. Text labels would end up all over
the place. Really stupid, since Orcad had control of the data and all
undocumented fields etc so they could have done it properly. They
presumably figured that forward compatibility would not matter, but
they underestimated the market.

That's why I never moved to later versions of Protel. They started
bloating their products, putting in loads of bugs, and bloating the
price.

FPGA (Xilinx) software was always a problem with forward
compatibility. I think this was why I stopped doing FPGA design - the
tools were changing all the time and unless one was doing it all the
time it was not worth the time and money. A lot of the early 1990s
FPGA applications can now be so easily bit-banged with an AVR etc and
then you have just the AVR assembler to keep running :)

To answer the original poster here, I doubt any USB-parallel adapter
will work because IIRC every application that used a dongle would
bit-bang direct to the hardware. This worked as far as windoze 95 or
so. The drivers for the USB chips are not that clever; I sell some in
my business and they implement only the bare standard interface.
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joel said:
Unfortunately the more expensive the software, the more expensive it is to
have a dongle (or a network license, which is essentially a "network card"
dongle).

ORCAD, PADS, Pulsonix, Microwave Office, HFSS, ADS, Ansoft Design... all
require a network license or dongle.

Then I am lucky, getting away with non-dongle apps. Cadsoft-Eagle,
DesignCAD-3D, LTSpice (free...), some beam field SW, etc. None of them
needs dongles. Some do require registration and then a clandestine
distributor would have his tracks and all right there in the distributed
copy. I've never done that and don't use any hacked SW, and appreciate
that some vendors trust people.
 
J

JeffM

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joel said:
I don't think that's always the case -- I recall reading some web page
about Lenovo notebooks having Linux options,
and prominently on the desktop there was a "readme.txt" file
that listed all the functions that *weren't* supported [under] Linux.
Of course it was small things -- stuff like
the hard drive auto-spin down when a drop is detected,
extra "function" keys or annuciators on the keyboard, etc.,
but it's still a little disappointing for the new Linux user
to find out that what they just bought hardware-wise
isn't entirely supported software-wise.

Those would be subroutines *within* the driver
--but my point was that the drivers do *exist*.
As you acknowledged, things have been improving in that regard.

I won't argue that there is a differential
between the kow-towing that Redmond gets
and the levels of quality that everyone else has to endure.

....and it should be shouted out loud IT'S NOT *LINUX'S* FAULT;
Patronize a hardware vendor WHO SUPPORTS YOU.
(I'm more in favor of mandated unbundling every day.)
http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/10/09/0048247&threshold=5&mode=nested#20906793

The *smart* vendors have published specs
and/or opened the source code of their drivers
(especially noteworthy when those drivers are crappy)
and have gotten free labor from the driver hacker community
which can improve their quality and expand their potential market--
gratis.
..
..
If you surf with JavaScript disabled,
insert &no_d2=1 into the Slashdot URL.
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
JeffM said:
Joel said:
I don't think that's always the case -- I recall reading some web page
about Lenovo notebooks having Linux options,
and prominently on the desktop there was a "readme.txt" file
that listed all the functions that *weren't* supported [under] Linux.
Of course it was small things -- stuff like
the hard drive auto-spin down when a drop is detected,
extra "function" keys or annuciators on the keyboard, etc.,
but it's still a little disappointing for the new Linux user
to find out that what they just bought hardware-wise
isn't entirely supported software-wise.

Those would be subroutines *within* the driver
--but my point was that the drivers do *exist*.
As you acknowledged, things have been improving in that regard.

I won't argue that there is a differential
between the kow-towing that Redmond gets
and the levels of quality that everyone else has to endure.

...and it should be shouted out loud IT'S NOT *LINUX'S* FAULT;
Patronize a hardware vendor WHO SUPPORTS YOU.
(I'm more in favor of mandated unbundling every day.)
http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/10/09/0048247&threshold=5&mode=nested#20906793

The *smart* vendors have published specs
and/or opened the source code of their drivers
(especially noteworthy when those drivers are crappy)
and have gotten free labor from the driver hacker community
which can improve their quality and expand their potential market--
gratis.
.
.
If you surf with JavaScript disabled,
insert &no_d2=1 into the Slashdot URL.


But at the end of the day people want or need a brand name laptop, with
a good warranty and from a company that is still going to be around in a
few years. That reduces the selection quite drastically.
 
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