Maker Pro
Maker Pro

Installers in Kentucky beware of HB-41

R

RockyTSquirrel

Jan 1, 1970
0
Kentucky installers beware of Kentucky house bill HB-41..

if passed prepare to pay out the ass for licenses..
yearly schooling (big expenses)
yearly renewals (bigger expenses)
insurance upgrades (biggest expenses)

a new government agency to regulate your ever move..
 
R

Robert L Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
RockyTSquirrel said:
Kentucky installers beware of Kentucky house bill HB-41..

if passed prepare to pay out the ass for licenses..
yearly schooling (big expenses)
yearly renewals (bigger expenses)
insurance upgrades (biggest expenses)

Installers will have to charge more for their services. More people will
choose to DIY and shop online.

Hmm. OK, that works for me. :^)

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

==============================>
Bass Home Electronics
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
Sales & Tech Support 941-925-8650
Customer Service 941-870-2310
Fax 941-870-3252
==============================>
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
RockyTSquirrel said:
Kentucky installers beware of Kentucky house bill HB-41..

if passed prepare to pay out the ass for licenses..
yearly schooling (big expenses)
yearly renewals (bigger expenses)
insurance upgrades (biggest expenses)

a new government agency to regulate your ever move..


If it's set up correctly I can big benefits for installers and
technicians as well. Many states regulate the alarm industry. Do you
know what state Kentucky is going to model their alarm bill on??
 
T

tourman

Jan 1, 1970
0
If it's set up correctly I can big benefits for installers and
technicians as well. Many states regulate the alarm industry. Do you
know what state Kentucky is going to model their alarm bill on??

RHC: Regulation, intelligently done (rare), and controlled in some
fashion so it doesnt't morph into another revenue generating,self
serving government regulatory agency, can benefit our industry by
ensuring standards are met for those who serve the security buying
public. But in spite of those benefits, what it can also do is drive
those "little alarm dealers" out of the industry who for one reason or
another just don't want to be bothered with this, or who refuse rto
obey on principle. This leaves more potential victims exposed for the
ADT's and other Borg companies to gouge even more of buying public,
since they WILL take the time and put up with the extra expense to
follow any level of regulation. They must be smiling all the way to
the bank...

I don't know the nature of these new regulatory restrictions, so I
can't say this will happen for sure, but is just seems like another in
a long list of actions taken by governments to improve things, but
which more often than not, turn out to have just the opposite effect.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see......
 
D

Doug

Jan 1, 1970
0
I don't know the nature of these new regulatory restrictions, so I
can't say this will happen for sure, but is just seems like another in
a long list of actions taken by governments to improve things, but
which more often than not, turn out to have just the opposite effect.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see......

I found this document, which states its an unofficial
copy.http://www.lrc.ky.gov/record/08RS/HB41/bill.doc

I'm not sure how the requirement to contact every customer every 30 days to
verify the call list will work out in the real world, and as usual licensed
electricians are exempt as are mechanical & HVAC contractors for some
reason.

It seems a little ambiguous on DIY, it states that individual property
owners personally installing an alarm system within the owners residence or
other building not open to the general public are exempt, which would seem
to prevent any business that either rents its space or is open to the public
from installing their own alarm, for that matter it would seem to exclude
any renter from installing an alarm in an apartment or home they rent.

You would think that with 5 of the 9 members of the board required to be
alarm contractors that it would be somewhat sympathetic to the industry, I'm
not sure why one member has to be at least 60 years old though.





Doug
 
A

alarman

Jan 1, 1970
0
tourman said:
RHC: Regulation, intelligently done (rare), and controlled in some
fashion

Still waiting to see that trick. Hasn't happened here.
 
T

tourman

Jan 1, 1970
0
Still waiting to see that trick. Hasn't happened here.

RHC: Nor has it happened where I come from either. Regulation equals
bullshit equals more regulation which brings on a new round of
bullshit to fix the first round. Its a whole different mindset in
Canada......
 
R

RockyTSquirrel

Jan 1, 1970
0
As I read it Robert, DIY can buy the equipment but only an approved person
can give advise as to what to buy or how it works.. It like you got what
you got but I can't help you understand how it works..
 
R

RockyTSquirrel

Jan 1, 1970
0
No clue Never seen this kind of BS before.
(However the KBFAA ie NBFAA figures in the text of the bill. they
recommend members for the board and only them..)
 
R

RockyTSquirrel

Jan 1, 1970
0
Theres a point in the text that exempts businesses with 500,000.00 in
revenue from some section of the bill..
Now who do you think that favors.. (sure not the little guy) no big
secret for me to see who's behind the thing...
 
R

RockyTSquirrel

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'd check thatr wording again Doug, it seem to say to me Non active
members of the industry, then the others are recommeded by the KBFAA ie..
NBFAA non members of the KBFAA have no chance of membership on the
board..

(less your over 60 and the governor likes you.. LOL)
 
R

RockyTSquirrel

Jan 1, 1970
0
Take a note that some of the requirements for service tech, electrical
engineering degree BA with 2 yrs OJT or electrical engineering degree
AD with 4 yrs OJT..
OK how many of you guys have a BA or AD in electrical engineering

But even if you do have a degree that only means they'll examine you to
see if you look good enough to them...
Still no assurance they'll accept you application.
 
R

Robert L Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
RockyTSquirrel said:
As I read it Robert, DIY can buy the equipment...
Correct.

... but only an approved person can give advise as to what to buy or how it
works.

That's not correct. Anyone can give free advice, even a salesman. For
example, most alarm salesmen working for medium to large companies aren't
licensed technicians. They're given very basic training in what their
particular alarm company likes to sell and then they go out and design
"professionally" installed systems. This is in fact a frequent topic in this
newsgroup -- salesmen who don't know how to design or install *designing*
alarm systems that either can't be installed as planned, won't work
effectively as planned or will cause false alarms if installed as planned.

There's no law in most places against unlicensed salesmen telling homeowners
what to use and where to use it. Fortunately for my clients, I've designed,
installed and serviced alarms for many years. This isn't something unique or
special. Many of the online merchants in the trade are also alarm dealers and
can also offer technical support.
It like you got what you got but I can't help you understand how it works.

A large portion of my time is spent doing just that -- explaining how things
work and how to install them. It's not rocket science though. Anyone with a
modicum of tool skills and a bit of patience can do install their own security
alarm system. It may take a little longer than it would for an experienced
pro but the cost savings can be significant and there's no requirement of a
long-term contract. Furthermore, when the homeowner decides to DIY his alarm
system he doesn't have to worry about being "locked out" of programming even
after paying for the system.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

==============================>
Bass Home Electronics
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
Sales & Tech Support 941-925-8650
Customer Service 941-870-2310
Fax 941-870-3252
==============================>
 
G

G. Morgan

Jan 1, 1970
0
Rocket said:
It's not rocket science though. Anyone with a
modicum of tool skills and a bit of patience can do install their own security
alarm system.

Hahahahaha.... There it is.
 
D

Doug

Jan 1, 1970
0
RockyTSquirrel said:
I'd check thatr wording again Doug, it seem to say to me Non active
members of the industry, then the others are recommeded by the KBFAA ie..
NBFAA non members of the KBFAA have no chance of membership on the
board..

(less your over 60 and the governor likes you.. LOL)

Maybe I'm missing something, but section 2 seems to call for the State Fire
Marshall, a couple of other state officials, four active alarm contractors
who don't sell personal emergency response systems, one alarm contractor who
does sell personal emergency response systems and one Joe Blow, one of the
above should also be over 60 years old, isn't that some sort of age
discrimination?? . But it does seem if you aren't in the KBFAA then you
aren't going to sit on the board. BFD

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/record/08RS/HB41/bill.doc

Doug
 
R

Robert L Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
G. 'Cracker' Morgan said:
Hahahahaha.... There it is.

I should have mentioned that only people capable of holding a job should
undertake installing an alarm. All others need not apply.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

==============================>
Bass Home Electronics
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
Sales & Tech Support 941-925-8650
Customer Service 941-870-2310
Fax 941-870-3252
==============================>
 
B

Bob La Londe

Jan 1, 1970
0
RockyTSquirrel said:
No clue Never seen this kind of BS before.
(However the KBFAA ie NBFAA figures in the text of the bill. they
recommend members for the board and only them..)


Can you say UL. I knew that you could.

Another independent organization trying to get themselves legislated into a
state of monopoly power and control.
 
P

Petem

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert L Bass said:
I should have mentioned that only people capable of holding a job should
undertake installing an alarm. All others need not apply.

Hummmmm that would be why you dont install anymore, and that you dont have a
job for the last how many years ?

you had to build a website to get money from poor guys that were thinking to
upgrade there supervised system and putting them at risk of having there
contract null so that you can still have some income..

we do understand now why you have such a good bbb record!

who could have a good bbb record when they cant keep a job...
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert said:
:


That's not correct. Anyone can give free advice, even a salesman.

Wrong (as usual). Some states regulate the sales people too. BC
springs to mind. Your own state (Florida) does too.

For
example, most alarm salesmen working for medium to large companies
aren't licensed technicians.

And most don't want to be.

They're given very basic training in what
their particular alarm company likes to sell and then they go out and
design "professionally" installed systems.

Sort of like you??

This is in fact a frequent
topic in this newsgroup -- salesmen who don't know how to design or
install *designing* alarm systems that either can't be installed as
planned, won't work effectively as planned or will cause false alarms if
installed as planned.

But identifying possible design "inefficiencies" is the job of the
professional technician/installer (who will also make recommendations
for additional protection if it's warranted). The sales and
installation departments work as a team, Bass. One covers the other.
And most sales people are committed professionals.

There's no law in most places against unlicensed salesmen telling
homeowners what to use and where to use it. Fortunately for my clients,
I've designed, installed and serviced alarms for many years. This isn't
something unique or special.

I'm sure this last statement isn't something you told your "clients".
And properly laying out an effective alarm system *is* pretty "unique
and special".

Many of the online merchants in the trade
are also alarm dealers and can also offer technical support.

Yup. And most answer their phones and emails. Some even take the step
of becoming BBB *members*.

A large portion of my time is spent doing just that -- explaining how
things work and how to install them.

You mean when they can actually get a hold of you.

It's not rocket science though.

It's *still* a science.

Anyone with a modicum of tool skills and a bit of patience can do
install their own security alarm system.

"Skills" aren't the only things required. There are some specialty
tools needed as well. You have to have some code knowledge as well as
be pretty savvy in construction techniques. But I'm sure you're able to
provide all this information in the two hour telephone course you offer
your "clients".

It may take a little longer
than it would for an experienced pro but the cost savings can be
significant and there's no requirement of a long-term contract.

I've been called in to "fix" a lot of DIY jobs. The potential "cost
savings" could very well turn into a huge liability if you drill in the
wrong place or improperly install the equipment. As for the "long term
commitment", that sometimes works to the advantage of the consumer. You
have to be able to read the fine print in the contract.
Furthermore, when the homeowner decides to DIY his alarm system he
doesn't have to worry about being "locked out" of programming even after
paying for the system.

That's such a big issue with you, isn't it? Most end-users don't have a
problem with this (and aren't interested in programming their own
panels). You cater to a very small percentage of the DIY community.
Quite frankly, most don't shop your kludge store. I never see anyone in
CHA recommend your "services" (except you, of course).
 
R

RockyTSquirrel

Jan 1, 1970
0
If you can find a copy of the bill look in section 4 para. 4,
"only retail stores or catalog sales NOT offering installations or
CONSULTING SERVICES are exempt from the requirement.."
its in black and white..
 

Similar threads

R
Replies
2
Views
1K
Rocky_T_Squirrel, Esq.
R
R
Replies
19
Views
1K
Frank Olson
F
3
Replies
0
Views
1K
33223
3
Top