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Installers: Be careful what you throw away!

Discussion in 'Security Alarms' started by Interested, Oct 6, 2003.

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  1. Interested

    Interested Guest

    A friend gave me a box of (ancient) alarm stuff they found near (not
    even in) an office-park dumpster while disposing of some stuff from
    their suite, thinking I may have some interest in the contents.

    While there was little of interest (About the only thing that didn't
    end up back in the garbage was an NEC codebook), at the bottom of the
    box I found some stuff that frightened me: Several unshreaded work

    On these work orders is everyone one who would want to compromise a
    particular system would want to or need to know: Owners
    names/address/phone number, the cross street, the CS account number,
    the CS receiver number (1-800-322-XXXX), the type of panel installed,
    the installer code for that panel, the "MON SYS" is WCH, the name of
    the tech assigned to go out, the problems that are occurring (one of
    these was to replace a non-functioning front-door sensor...Hmm. The
    customer number and that that customer is under Protection One, ...,

    I am now going to shread and then burn this stuff, and there are only
    a handful of these in that box, but it amazes me that an alarm company
    would be so careless as to throw away (what I, as an outsider at
    least, would consider to be) very valuable information without even
    attempting to mask any of the information.

    Is this normal? What do your companies do with this type of
    information? Is it usually considered sensitive or what?

  2. Frank Olson

    Frank Olson Guest

    When I first started with Chubb, I heard stories about certain companies in
    the fire alarm service business that "dumpster dived" frequently to glean
    their rivals customer information. I thought it was just one of those
    "stories" you hear until one day I got called out on a service call... It
    was 2:00 am and I had to go back to the office for a specific board part I
    didn't normally carry in the van (Chubb 3000 main board). As I drove into
    the complex that housed our office I noticed the lid of our dumpster "open"
    and a Jaguar Sovereign parked next to it with the trunk open. Some big
    stocky guy was inside the dumpster and actually tried to hide (by ducking
    down into it) when my headlights flashed onto it... I didn't say a thing
    because I wasn't gonna confront what looked to me like a 300 lb "blimp" in a
    dark parking lot... I drove around to the front of the office and went in
    through there instead. The next day I told the office manager about what
    I'd seen and described the guy and the car. He knew who it was as soon as I
    mentioned the Jaguar. It also helped that it had a vanity license plate on
    it that was also the name of the company this guy owned...

    Moral of the story?? Shred everything (even packing slips and "doodles")!!!
  3. RH.Campbell

    RH.Campbell Guest

    Sad ! That any company should be so hard up for business, they actually have
    to "dumpster dive" to get competitive information of that nature. Sure isn't
    the kind of company anybody should be dealing with....sounds like they won't
    be around tomorrow....

  4. Shredders are cheap.
  5. RH.Campbell

    RH.Campbell Guest

    Well Bob, with all due respect, I take most reasonable things I hear and
    read at face value until I find out more detail. This situtation is
    certainly not beyond the realm of possibility, and some of the things we all
    hear about these days make even this pale by comparison. But to think that a
    security company would stoop to such activities does seem somewhat bizarre
    for sure....

    If it didn't happen as you suggest...well so be it. If it did, then my
    previous comments apply...


  6. thesatguy

    thesatguy Guest

    we shread everything
  7. Mark Leuck

    Mark Leuck Guest

    Can't be that hard up if the guy drives a Jag
  8. Splitpair

    Splitpair Guest

    He wasn't diving for information just recovering the Napco tape dialers from
    his ex-subscriber's prem! You know the same account this company had taken
    over earlier in the day!

  9. Splitpair

    Splitpair Guest

    One step ahead of the Repo-Man.


  10. Maybe, but I've seen a lot of ratty Jags driving around.
  11. Frank Olson

    Frank Olson Guest

    What's sadder still is the guy is now a Member of Parliament... "Reform"...

    There are stories about him that would make your hair curl... He was the
    distributor for Electorovox Fire Alarm panels (before they got bought out by
    Pyrotronics - now Cerberus, etc.) and was famous for supplying "repackaged"
    system smokes on new construction jobs. He also "doctored" an Electrovox
    panel to meet the specification on a movie theatre job he "landed"... The
    panel came with only two bell circuits, but he "manufactured" a third using
    relays and the output terminals. Surprisingly, it passed the
    verification... I still can't figure out how he did that...
  12. Frank Olson

    Frank Olson Guest

    Story goes he bought it with cash he got when the guys he was partners with
    in another fire alarm service company kicked - errmmm... bought him out...
  13. Frank Olson

    Frank Olson Guest

    Most security companies I know now shred all paperwork generated by their
    operation. We're talking fire alarm service companies and back then
    (1984/85) not a lot of them employed shredders... Mind you the industry in
    Edmonton was pretty "tight" then, and word got around pretty fast... I
    imagine shredder sales picked up... :)

    This same guy got "nailed" for taking (stealing?) spare equipment out of an
    Edwards 6500 series panel by one of the largest Property Management firms
    around (still). It's a real pity they didn't prosecute it as a theft, but
    gave him the option of returning it...

    And to think, people actually elected this guy...
  14. Frank Olson wrote
    Why is that surprising? The voters elect crooks regularly. Our congress is
    full of them.
  15. David Kratz

    David Kratz Guest

    Frank, all I can say to you is "good job". You have successfully made Robert
    cry. When he attacks you by "guessing" that your story is false, this shows
    me that you are GETTING TO HIM!

    This is great! I'm more than pleased to see Robert "break down" in public's been since he called GM's boss.

    What a fool, if Robert called my boss, it would be the end of

    Keep up the good work.

    **** Conn Flowers
  16. Frank Olson

    Frank Olson Guest

    I could care less what you believe or don't believe. I've said so just
    recently and I'll keep saying it until it finally sinks in to the pudding in
    your skull you call a brain. Let's examine the "compulsive need" you have
    to flame me, Robert...

    Could it be because I (and a number of others - *including yourself*) have
    proven you're a liar, a fraud, and a troll beyond a shadow of a doubt??
    Could it be that you've been shown to be duplicitous, a hypocrite, a self
    serving, mean spirited sack of donkey dung?

    Let's look at your "record" in this group (I won't mention all the others in
    which you've demonstrated your baser character and nature).

    You lied when you said I offered to "donate" money or a system to a museum
    in the US and then had the temerity to accuse me of reneging on it.

    You lied when you accused Graham of using his company's resources to do a
    credit check on you. The company Graham works for doesn't have an account
    with a credit reporting agency and doesn't do credit checks on their
    customers. You compounded the lie by filing a false complaint against
    Graham with his employer. You know damn well that Graham got your SIN
    number which was posted as 6009.200135 in "Google" (once you "do the math")
    from an open internet database of convicted felons.

    You lie repeatedly whenever you state you're "in the trade", or "still in
    the trade", or make any reference to the fact that you're "still installing"
    security systems professionally.

    You lie every time you dance around the issue of being "bonded and
    insured"... You aren't, admit it... You lie when you've repeatedly said
    that I've asked you to publish your policy numbers and Insurer's
    information... I *never* have.

    You lie whenever you say you're a "student pilot"... or when you state you
    have even a slight knowledge of aviation (or aerodynamics). Cessna *still*
    doesn't make a 152 taildragger, Robert. The 152 is not "precursor" to the
    182 (if you must know, the 180 is), only the 182RG has retractable
    undercarriage so when you mention "182", *real* pilots think "fixed gear".
    There's no such thing as "negative" lift, and the expression "angle of
    attack of the wind" is just not something you hear *any* student pilot (or
    even a novice one) use... I doubt very much you've ever "soloed". Someone
    with your complete lack of knowledge of emergency procedures (even in the
    presence of a so called "CFI") shouldn't be allowed within an airport
    perimeter let alone near an actual aircraft. Your recent response comparing
    "Convair" to "Avro" was not only ludicrous, it clearly demonstrated that you
    have *NO CLUE* about anything at all aviation related.

    You lie whenever you say that you've run a central station alarm company for
    20, 25, or 27 years (or what-ever-the-hell the latest figure is)... You
    incorporated a company in 1979... You were also convicted of assault with a
    gun the same year. You've stated that you got your start "in the trade"
    sooner than that, but have never mentioned it before I asked you to clarify.
    You've also stated that you were servicing alarm panels without a license
    for nine years in CT, opened your online store in 1997 and moved to Florida
    in 1999. I figure the *total* length of time "in the trade" you can claim
    is *maybe* nine years (ten tops)... The rest of the time you've been
    sitting on your fat can reading manuals and stealing people's ideas (or
    cycling around the neighborhood on it)...

    You lied when you posted a false customer comment on a competitor's web
    site, and then had the temerity to at first deny you did it. Your "apology"
    was about as genuine as a nine dollar bill...

    You lie when you say you don't use sock puppets or post under false names...
    Your IP was identified as having logged into the AlarmsBC website. You
    posted a question about me posing as "Jake" and submitted someone else's
    email address (an innocent Grade Four student's).

    You lie whenever you say I've tried to "interfere" with your relationship
    with your suppliers. The *only* time I've *ever* mentioned your name was
    when I called DSC to advise them that you had their software available for
    free *download* on *your* website (this violates the software's EULA). You
    lie every time you twist this around to say you I accused you of selling
    their CD "illegally".

    You lie every time you state that you "believe" in the group's FAQ. You've
    compounded this by taking to not only posting it as a link on your website,
    but also posting it here on a "weekly" basis. You couldn't follow the FAQ
    if you tried. This latest attack on me proves it beyond a shadow of a

    You stole Gene Witt's work and tried to republish it as your own (a fact
    that's both well known and provable via Google). You haven't stopped there
    though... You've also "incorporated" the work and suggestions of several
    others in your own FAQ without the proper credit.

    You lied when you accused me of "suggesting" that you would cheat on your
    income tax. It wasn't a "suggestion"... You requested a receipt for
    $150.00 on "museum stationary" for "tax purposes" for an item that normally
    sells for much less. The "inference" is not only clear, I'll come right out
    and say it. If you intend to "donate" an item and the amount of that
    donation is based on *your* inflated price (as you've requested a receipt in
    that amount), then that's *fraud*, buddy... plain and simple. The item in
    question was probably given to you as a "demo" as well, which makes the
    whole thing even more disgusting.

    You don't hesitate to include participants in this group (that don't happen
    to "cow-tow" to your self-proclaimed "magnificence") in sick and twisted
    "examples" of purient sexual practices. It's disgusting coming from anyone
    let alone a former supposed "lay minister". You're one sick puppy, Bass.

    You couldn't post a single piece of helpful advice *without* proclaiming
    your "self interest" in this group. You're an arrogant little weasel and
    one of these days you're going to push someone too far and *they* will go
    real life with you in a way you won't find the least bit pleasant. It truly
    hope you have some form of medical coverage when it happens...

    I will continue to provide links to individuals that are seeking to purchase
    products and services online and those links will *not* include your
    website. I will continue to caution people against purchasing products or
    services from individuals that have questionable morals and ethics, don't
    support the industry and denigrate the trade and the professionals that post
    here. Your history on USENET is readily searchable and a comprises long
    list of lies and shameful behaviour. "Robert L. Bass liar" is a search
    string I would readily encourage anyone to enter into "Google" at the
    "Advanced Group Search" tab.

    In closing, Robert, I have only this to say... In the past few days I've
    refrained from making any derogatory remarks against you directly, yet you
    continue to do so against me... You want to "mix it up" a little more,
    Robbie?? Let's go for it... I can post Google references to your sick and
    twisted scum-bag ways all day long... Your credibility in this group is
    *zero*... Stick with posting your "advice" to CHA. At least there people
    still respect you (at least "a little").
  17. Frank Olson

    Frank Olson Guest

    Gee... thanks...

    Still haven't received my commission cheque, by the way... :)
  18. Jasonst

    Jasonst Guest

    Buyers be careful who you purchase from. Any equipment seller, let along
    installer, can remotely get into you system and compromise is as easily as
    if they found your paper work in the trash bin.

    Be careful who you buy from, especially on the internet......and especially
    from anyone offering......selfless.....advice on newgroups.
  19. Frank Olson

    Frank Olson Guest

    Oh... I forgot... Excuse me... You're allowed to target for attack any
    participant you feel like... You going to be adding that to the FAQ??

    Turnabout from what, Robert?? Oh... *I'm* the one that has to "cave in"
    to your ridiculous demand to "stop". I forgot... You're the one that's
    really appointed himself in charge of the group. You're the one that can
    with impunity attack anyone that doesn't agree that you should be able to
    usurp the group's FAQ to promote your own selfish agenda. This isn't about
    "turnabout", Robert... This is about integrity, honesty, ethical conduct...
    You don't have a clue as to what I'm talking about, do you??

    Bwahahahahahahaha! Gawd, you're funny Robert... But don't give up your
    "day job" just yet...

    Wasn't a "snap roll". It felt like it though... Having never been in that
    attitude while in a large passenger jet before, I wouldn't be able to
    comment properly (and it's definitely a manoever I wouldn't want to
    repeat)... Aren't you the guy that said that a 737 can't recover from a 59
    degree bank angle?? Bwahahahahahaha.... "Gotcha"...

    *That's* what's got you "bummed" the most, isn't it?? No one else promotes
    their online business here the way you do. You're the "kid" that steps into
    the sandbox to charge everyone else playing in it "admission", right

    I actually work for a living, Robert... I'm out there every day
    *installing* and *servicing* alarm equipment. I see and experience things.
    You can only imagine them.

    Ahhh... I see... so "laying low" or adopting a policy of non-response
    isn't good enough for you... What else would you like, Robert?? I'll put
    it another way... What's the cost of "admission" to *your* sandbox,

    I'd get no satisfaction from whuppin' a "cream-puff"... You're a small man,
    Robert... Come on out to Vancouver and we'll talk... I'll grill us up some
    salmon... We might even catch a movie...

    Heh, heh, heh... right, Robert... So... is that a "dare"??

    Lame... Feeble attempt to dance around the issues.

    Hey... fill your boots, bud...

    so... the only lie you've even attempted to deny (and failed miserably)
    amoungst all the others you've spouted relate to aviation... interesting...
    Maybe you should start posting back in alt.rec.aviation... Lot's of people
    there will "set you straight" and you could come back in here talking like
    you *really* know something...
  20. Be careful of taking advice from someone who can't even spell or use proper
    grammar, as in "let along", (try "let ALONE" next time sparky), or "get into
    you system and compromise is" (try "get into YOUR system and compromise

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