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Induction wall socket/outlet to replace BS1362 standard ?

Discussion in 'Power Electronics' started by Josephine, Aug 1, 2021.

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  1. Josephine

    Josephine

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    Oct 29, 2017
    What would be the hurdle(s) to creating a universal induction plug to replace the BS1362 UK standard 3-pin plug ?

    Although the plug design has the most safety features in the world, there's nothing safer than never coming into contact with the current (the socket/outlet that is, not a frayed cable). Water resistance would also be another benefit, and even the flexibility of where the power is drawn from, potentially.

    Of course, for a surface completely flush with the wall, the use of strong neodymium magnets could be employed to keep the plug in place, which would add to cost. But, if that were in the wall socket/outlet itself, instead of the plug, then manufacturers should not be against the change, and they drive the change in the markets so must be considered first.

    Another issue would be heat, this directly tied to the amount of electricity needed. So for a kettle it may be an issue, but it's only used until the point of boiling, whilst a big flat screen TV draws a lot less and shouldn't be an issue.

    Has anybody got any thoughts on the matter, or even better, could explain the shortcomings of such a proposal, some hard numbers would be well appreciated as I am not an electrical engineer, just overly curious.

    Thanks in advance !
     
  2. Bluejets

    Bluejets

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    Oct 5, 2014
    What is an " induction wall socket"...never seen reference to or example of anywhere before.
    If it's an idea relative to wireless phone charging, I think you'll find the associated equipment too large and costly to be of any practical use. Safety switches and proper earthing along with proper maintenance cover all mains related safety gear.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2021
  3. Josephine

    Josephine

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    Oct 29, 2017
    Yes, that's right, like the Qi wireless standard charging something like a toothbrush.

    Costs are always an issue, but if I didn't want any physical interruption on my wall I would have to go the induction route, so I wanted to know the limitations.

    For example, I see that the Qi standard tops out at 15W, but that an LED/OLED/LCD TV can consume anything from 30-70W, with a desktop computer drawing around double, so not quite there, but on the other hand magnets would solve the issue of perfect alignment for maximum efficiency.

    There is also a fair bit of added cost due to inefficiency, and heat build up with higher the wattage, I am looking into how to solve or mitigate these issues, and to find out what they are.

    You mention size being an issue, which I understand to be directly in relation to the coupling system the transceiver and receiver use. For the application of a wall plug replacement, a tightly coupled system could be ensured with magnetic alignment, taking as little space as possible, but larger than a current UK plug I admit.
     
  4. Bluejets

    Bluejets

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    Think you'll find a rather large transformer, both inside and outside of the wall would be the killer......we installed 10A isolation transformers for an operating room and each were around the 40kg mark.......doubt your magnets would be any use there.
     
  5. Martaine2005

    Martaine2005

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    May 12, 2015
    AND I doubt any 'normal' person would be able to release the 'receiver' if neodymium.

    Check out a youtuber called EEVblog. He has debunked the wireless charging systems with great accuracy by crunching numbers.
    Perhaps the future will see this in every home. Just not yet.

    Martin
     
  6. Josephine

    Josephine

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    Oct 29, 2017
    Regarding the neodymium magnet(s), they would not be directly touching as they would be embedded in the wall, so attraction would be weekend. The whole idea was that if the cable is tugged it would be as if tethered to the wall (pulling at the poles being the most difficult way to separate magnets), so sliding the plug from the wall to release it i.e. requiring the user to walk up to the wall, would be a familiar action.

    Fund raising with tall promises isn't what I had in mind, just the practicality of scaling up what already exists. What did the 10A isolation transformer get you, what was it powering, that's pretty hefty.

    The hockey puck that fits on the the reverse of an iPhone pushes 15W and the components are pretty dainty, I wonder if doubling the output would produce a linear weight increase, if so then it could power an LED TV without being too hefty.
     
  7. Bluejets

    Bluejets

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    Oct 5, 2014
    Each transformer powered 1 only outlet in the operating theatre.
    There was a total of 25 transformers in the enclosure.
    Each point was monitored by an earth leakage system with adjustable alarm points from 1 to 5 mA.
    No trip, just alarm.
    Along with approx. 5 klm of 6mm2 earthing run to "cardiac protect" standards from test points per room.
    Installation created a real headache to begin with as the accumulated inrush would trip a neighbouring 300A c/b.
    Had to stir the brain cells to overcome that lot. Even Clipsal had no answer.
    Answer turned out to be a 10W 20R resistor in each primary controlled by a 5 second by-pass timer.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2021
  8. Alec_t

    Alec_t

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    Jul 7, 2015
    A major problem with high power energy transmission would be EMI suppression in view of the way-less-than-perfect coupling between primary (transmitter) and secondary (receiver).
     
  9. Josephine

    Josephine

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    Oct 29, 2017
    It seems that Apple has been taking an individual approach to many of it's iPhone internal components since the seven series by shielding chips individually from EMI. Given the densely packed nature of the device it shouldn't bulk out a wall power outlet too much.

    I tried to understand the following article in vain, but have emailed them on the matter and will return their reply, if they do:

    https://incompliancemag.com/article...ing-for-board-to-board-level-interconnection/

    I also found that Qi's 30W charger was reported to have "Best-in-class EMI".

    https://eepower.com/new-industry-pr...et-said-to-charge-as-fast-as-wired-chargers/#
     
  10. Alec_t

    Alec_t

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    Jul 7, 2015
    That's one thing, but preventing a powerful transmitter from spewing EMI is a different ball game. A domestic power socket would have to be capable of handling several kilowatts, not a mere 30W.
     
  11. Josephine

    Josephine

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    Oct 29, 2017
    True, but different environments have different requirements.

    I would say that the kitchen environ would be the most power hungry. Whilst the living room would not need anything more than scraping triple digits.

    I know how it must sound, but take water usage for example: there is a big push to "convince" customers to use less water, to self-ration. I don't know how well that will work, but eventually the law will make it so, and folk will accept it, reduced consumption will become the new norm.

    If induction power is compelling enough, then folk will learn to live within the limits of its abilities, even with the promise of more flexibility farther down the road.
     
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