IEEE vs Open Source

[Joerg]

Hello John,

Maybe somebody with more time and resources than I have will find a way
of getting credible peer reviews done on the Web. ...

If something is wrong in a paper there sure will be responses from
readers. I had done that once and the author corrected it pretty much
right away.

... After all, almost all
s.e.d. articles are peer-reviewed, often ad nauseam or even ad mortem.

ROFL!

Papers in highly scientific journals are often boring. They don't have
the same spunk, lack of political content maybe ...

Regards, Joerg

 

[PaulCsouls]

I don't disagree with recovering the cost, especially on short runs of
print publications.

But, what justifies the fees charged to download documents like the
standards, especially when one is already a dues-paying member at nearly
$200/year? I recall some time back having to pay to download specs for
V.35 for cryin' out loud. (Not much as I recall, but it was so old that
it should have been gratis to Communications Society members.)

The last time I looked at prices to download *recent* specs in the 802
tree, they were outrageous ($100's, IIRC). (I know they started
releasing older versions for free a few years back.) If the authors pay
their own way to the committee meetings, what cost is there to the IEEE
aside from the layout and administrative overhead?

It seems too much like IEEE is in the money-making business, not in the
standards and professional society business...

My two cents,
Richard

It's a shame though because I feel EE should have a professional
society. That's why I belong. But for $200/year it should be make
itself at least as valuable a resource as $100 text book.

Paul C

 

[Dave]

According to Russell J Lefevre who is running for IEEE-USA
President-Elect, "There are two major issues facing IEEE_USA members
in the next few years; responses to globalization and to new "Open
Source" publications that threaten the financial health of IEEE and
IEEE-USA."

I don't quite understand what this issue means. Is this about whether
I have to pay IEEE for papers or get them for free? What benefit do I
get from paying IEEE for information? Do the authors get some benefit?

Thanks

Paul C

I'm not sure what you mean by open source publishing. But the big
advantage of IEEE journals over articles on XYZ's web site is that they
are peer reviewed and so should have a reasonable standard. That is not
to say the odd bad one does not get through the peer review process, but
it is not common.

In comparison, there is a lot of junk on the internet.

The authors benefit from IEEE journals by being able to put the
publications on their CV. That is why some authors tend to produce lots
of similar papers on the same subject. The title gets changed, the
journal gets changed, but the content does not undergo much change.

It usually does not cost to get journal articles published except under
a few circumstances.

1) You want colour in the printed version - that you have to pay a page
charge.

2) If the articles are longer than X pages, where X varies from journal
to journal.

3) You wish to make the paper available for free download to anyone
rather than them pay or have a subscription. Whether the IEEE operating
this way I don't know, but some journals do.

If one is to go to a conference and present work, one must pay. Given
the credibility given to conference proceedings (they don't count for
much on a CV), I am personally not over keen on that process. Sure
people love it since it makes for a nice holiday, but you can take a lot
of what is presented at conference proceedings with a pinch of salt.

 

[Tim Shoppa]

The authors don't get paid, at least I never did.

Usually there's a fee to submit/publish an article in a journal, at
least in my field(s).

Sometimes the publisher will waive the fee if for authors who submit
electronically according to certain compatibility standards (makes it
easier and quicker to push it through the referee/editing/publishing
chain).

At least in the fields where I publish, what's doing the traditional
journals in is the long lead time from submission to refereeing to
final editing to publishing, when an author can get noticed a lot more
quickly by publishing electronically for free (e.g.
http://lanl.arxiv.org/ ). Most of the major journals don't have big
problems with publishing something that's also available on the web
(anyway that's what all the academics have to do.)

Tim.

 

[Rich Grise]

I don't see how it's any worse for Bill Gates to do that than the Red Hats,
Fedoras, Linspires, and others than presently do... and Bill Gates employs one
heck of a lot more people and pas a lot more taxes than Red Hat does!

Actually, that was kind of my point - I just can't understand why he
hasn't yet, unless it's some form of brain-lock.

I've been seriously considering trying one of the other Linuces, but only
to see if their eye candy is anywheres near the calibre of Windows'. So
far, Slackware 10.1 with either KDE, Gnome, or Fluxbox seems to be serving
me nicely.

And I finally got it through my headbone to install some virus protection
for when I _have_ to boot Windows, like when I have to use apps that
haven't been ported yet. Just for old time's sake, earlier today I dug out
my old MS Visual Basic 4.0, and dang it, it was quite pleasant, just
dragging and dropping widgets to make forms and stuff. Unfortunately, to
run any app that I've written in VB4, the end user has to install the
whole run-time dll package, so I guess just about everything is a
trade-off of one kind or another.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

My question was IEEE vs Open Source. If there is an open source
publishing alternative that is cheaper for the author and gets me to
the knowledge cheaper and easier why shouldn't I support that over
IEEE.

There IS!!! It's called "The Internet".

The thing is, the price you pay is wading through 1000 pages of crap to
find the one page that has what you actually need - and can be deemed
reliable, so to speak.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Joerg


Maybe somebody with more time and resources than I have will find a way
of getting credible peer reviews done on the Web. After all, almost all
s.e.d. articles are peer-reviewed, often ad nauseam or even ad mortem.

I think the primary difficulty here would be locating those who could be
considered "peers". ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Rich Grise <[email protected]>

I think the primary difficulty here would be locating those who could
be considered "peers". ;-)

Here, maybe, but for a dedicated web site run by credible 'editors', it
shouldn't be any more difficult that for a dead-tree journal

 

[Joel Kolstad]

Hi Rich,

I've been seriously considering trying one of the other Linuces, but only
to see if their eye candy is anywheres near the calibre of Windows'. So
far, Slackware 10.1 with either KDE, Gnome, or Fluxbox seems to be serving
me nicely.

Linix is OK these days. Not as well 'integrated' as Windows -- much less OS
X -- but decent... usable... even fun! I'm using Mandrake at the moment.

Unfortunately, to
run any app that I've written in VB4, the end user has to install the
whole run-time dll package, so I guess just about everything is a
trade-off of one kind or another.

These days end users are used to just running "setup.exe" and having the
installer do the rest. Visual Basic 6 will build such an installer for you;
dunno about VB 4.

You do still see a lot of people just handing out a compiled VB programming
(which is one heck of a lot smaller than a full blown installation package)
and just referring people to Microsquish's web site for te run time libraries.
Most usually make a point that there's a very high chance they're already
installed anyway!

There's nothing on Linux quite like VB on Windows... although I've started to
like Python and some of the IDEs are OK...

 

[Joel Kolstad]

I think the primary difficulty here would be locating those who could be
considered "peers". ;-)

With the IEEE journals, if you get, say, six reviewers usually what happens is
that 2 make no comments, 2 or 3 make relatively superficial comments about how
you should be clearer in certain sections (usually a reflection that they
aren't familiar with your topic, and your introduction where you're throwing
out all your favorite buzzwords really hasn't been helping in that regard),
etc., and -- if you're REALLY lucky -- 1 or 2 will be familiar with what the
@#%#$% it is you're trying to do, will have spent the time to really sit down
and try to understand you take on it, and provide truly valuable feedback.

 

[Ken Smith]

There's nothing on Linux quite like VB on Windows... although I've started to
like Python and some of the IDEs are OK...

Open Office's macros are slow and clunky so they are a lot like VB.

Actually Open Office macros aren't all that bad considering.

You can get Pascal compilers for Linux that handle the Borland extended
stuff. All the old DOS stuff works under "dosemu". This means you can
run the old DOS Orcad in one window and the Borland Pascal in another.
While playing "kmines" in another.

The newer versions of SuSE no longer have "Billy basher" in the games
collection. This is too bad. Prehaps Bill Gates was taking it
personally.

 

[Rich Grise]

Hi Rich,



Linix is OK these days. Not as well 'integrated' as Windows -- much less OS
X -- but decent... usable... even fun! I'm using Mandrake at the moment.


These days end users are used to just running "setup.exe" and having the
installer do the rest. Visual Basic 6 will build such an installer for you;
dunno about VB 4.

You do still see a lot of people just handing out a compiled VB programming
(which is one heck of a lot smaller than a full blown installation package)
and just referring people to Microsquish's web site for te run time libraries.
Most usually make a point that there's a very high chance they're already
installed anyway!

There's nothing on Linux quite like VB on Windows... although I've started to
like Python and some of the IDEs are OK...

Actually, I've dabbled with Qt, but got stopped because it uses a core of
C++, which I haven't learned yet, albeit I have been studying it.

Thanks!
Rich