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IEC leads, the wires just seem to get thinner and thinner

K

kreed

Jan 1, 1970
0
I remember a thread on here a couple of years back about under-rated
cables used on IEC leads, unfortunately the situation seems to be
getting worse rather than better.


Just received an IEC lead with a computer power supply, the lead in
question is 1m long, and has a USA plug on one end, and a standard IEC
socket on the other end. The socket is clearly marked 10a 250v. The
cable is marked as 0.5mm squared. The entire 2 layer 3 core insulated
cable is approximately 5mm thick, and has a measurement of about 0.5
ohms on each of the 3 wires from end to end (which gives about 1 ohm
total resistance in the circuit).

Just looking at how thin the cable was, and the light weight of it
alarmed me.


Compared with a 2m length of approved (Cable marked: FUJIKURA AS3181
LIC: 1025) 1.0mm square 3 core cable (approx 7.5 mm diameter) fitted
with similar connections, you get less than .1 ohm per core using the
same meter (fluke 87). (note that this is for 2m - not 1m - I didnt
have a 1 metre length handy to do a comparison)


Considering that the thin cable was obviously intended for use in the
US 120v market, and therefore the same type of appliance used there
will be drawing DOUBLE the current of our 240v system, this makes
matters even worse and a serious risk of fire if used on a 10a
appliance.
 
P

Phil Allison

Jan 1, 1970
0
"kreed"
I remember a thread on here a couple of years back about under-rated
cables used on IEC leads, unfortunately the situation seems to be
getting worse rather than better.

** That was my thread, back in August 2002.

With heckling by " Miro " and generous assistance by Ross Herbert from WA.

Just received an IEC lead with a computer power supply, the lead in
question is 1m long, and has a USA plug on one end, and a standard IEC
socket on the other end. The socket is clearly marked 10a 250v. The
cable is marked as 0.5mm squared. The entire 2 layer 3 core insulated
cable is approximately 5mm thick, and has a measurement of about 0.5
ohms on each of the 3 wires from end to end (which gives about 1 ohm
total resistance in the circuit).


** Whaaaaaaaaaattttttt ??????

You sure the resistance value is that high ?

Just looking at how thin the cable was, and the light weight of it
alarmed me.


** Sounds like the one I found - but much worse.

The wire inside that was not even copper, but a much higher resistance alloy
!!

Compared with a 2m length of approved (Cable marked: FUJIKURA AS3181
LIC: 1025) 1.0mm square 3 core cable (approx 7.5 mm diameter) fitted
with similar connections, you get less than .1 ohm per core using the
same meter (fluke 87). (note that this is for 2m - not 1m - I didnt
have a 1 metre length handy to do a comparison)


** 1 sq mm copper wire has only 17 or 18 milliohms per metre !!

That amount will handle 7.5 to 10 amps OK in a two conductor lead.

Considering that the thin cable was obviously intended for use in the
US 120v market, and therefore the same type of appliance used there
will be drawing DOUBLE the current of our 240v system, this makes
matters even worse and a serious risk of fire if used on a 10a
appliance.


** Absoblooominglutely !!!!!

Care to check those resistance values again with more accuracy ?

Maybe use a 1 amp DC source ( bench PSU in current limit) and measure the
voltage drop along the cable.

Was the supplier in Aussie ??

Please keep us informed.




....... Phil
 
A

atec

Jan 1, 1970
0
kreed said:
I remember a thread on here a couple of years back about under-rated
cables used on IEC leads, unfortunately the situation seems to be
getting worse rather than better.


Just received an IEC lead with a computer power supply, the lead in
question is 1m long, and has a USA plug on one end, and a standard IEC
socket on the other end. The socket is clearly marked 10a 250v. The
cable is marked as 0.5mm squared. The entire 2 layer 3 core insulated
cable is approximately 5mm thick, and has a measurement of about 0.5
ohms on each of the 3 wires from end to end (which gives about 1 ohm
total resistance in the circuit).

Just looking at how thin the cable was, and the light weight of it
alarmed me.


Compared with a 2m length of approved (Cable marked: FUJIKURA AS3181
LIC: 1025) 1.0mm square 3 core cable (approx 7.5 mm diameter) fitted
with similar connections, you get less than .1 ohm per core using the
same meter (fluke 87). (note that this is for 2m - not 1m - I didnt
have a 1 metre length handy to do a comparison)


Considering that the thin cable was obviously intended for use in the
US 120v market, and therefore the same type of appliance used there
will be drawing DOUBLE the current of our 240v system, this makes
matters even worse and a serious risk of fire if used on a 10a
appliance.
SO you replaced it ?
 
F

Friday

Jan 1, 1970
0
kreed said:
I remember a thread on here a couple of years back about under-rated
cables used on IEC leads, unfortunately the situation seems to be
getting worse rather than better.


Just received an IEC lead with a computer power supply, the lead in
question is 1m long, and has a USA plug on one end, and a standard IEC
socket on the other end. The socket is clearly marked 10a 250v. The
cable is marked as 0.5mm squared. The entire 2 layer 3 core insulated
cable is approximately 5mm thick, and has a measurement of about 0.5
ohms on each of the 3 wires from end to end (which gives about 1 ohm
total resistance in the circuit).

Just looking at how thin the cable was, and the light weight of it
alarmed me.


Compared with a 2m length of approved (Cable marked: FUJIKURA AS3181
LIC: 1025) 1.0mm square 3 core cable (approx 7.5 mm diameter) fitted
with similar connections, you get less than .1 ohm per core using the
same meter (fluke 87). (note that this is for 2m - not 1m - I didnt
have a 1 metre length handy to do a comparison)


Considering that the thin cable was obviously intended for use in the
US 120v market, and therefore the same type of appliance used there
will be drawing DOUBLE the current of our 240v system, this makes
matters even worse and a serious risk of fire if used on a 10a
appliance.

I noticed the same thing with a cheap set of automotive jumper leads,
really thick insulation but about 1mm square cross section conductor.
Not only that but the bulldog clips had high resistance crimp
connections and the whole think would get too hot to touch if you put
any sort of a load on it.

Friday
 
P

Phil Allison

Jan 1, 1970
0
"Terry Given Enough Rope he Might Hang "



** **** OFF - CRIMINAL Kiwi **** !!!




......... Phil
 
D

Dave

Jan 1, 1970
0
Just received an IEC lead with a computer power supply, the lead in
question is 1m long, and has a USA plug on one end, and a standard IEC
socket on the other end. The socket is clearly marked 10a 250v. The
cable is marked as 0.5mm squared. The entire 2 layer 3 core insulated
cable is approximately 5mm thick, and has a measurement of about 0.5
ohms on each of the 3 wires from end to end (which gives about 1 ohm

Although this is related to a US style cordset this is a serious issue that
is becoming more prevalent. As China uses the same domestic outlet style as
AU/NZ there are more cords being sourced and supplied from there that do not
meet the basic AU/NZ standards for the cordset and mains plug. There is
also no understanding about light, ordinary or heavy duty ratings or about
the hot condition ratings for the connectors.

I would guess the 10A rating you refer to is stamped or embossed on the plug
face and not the cord, which is very common. Looking inside many of the
generic ATX computer cases that are fitted with PSUs will often yeild one of
these unapproved (and unapprovable) cordsets (in a bag) which are intended
for Chinese domestic consumption.
 
P

Phil Allison

Jan 1, 1970
0
"Dave" ??? Not Dave Castels ????

Although this is related to a US style cordset this is a serious issue
that is becoming more prevalent. As China uses the same domestic outlet
style as AU/NZ there are more cords being sourced and supplied from there
that do not meet the basic AU/NZ standards for the cordset and mains plug.
There is also no understanding about light, ordinary or heavy duty ratings
or about the hot condition ratings for the connectors.


** No IEC lead can be LEGALLY sold or supplied in Aussie without receiving
type approval.

Approved leads must use a 3 core cable with at least 0.75 sq mm copper
conductors.

Such a lead runs comfortably at 7.5 amps and a tad warm at 10 amps.

So, despite there being a variety of conductor gauges, no lead is dangerous
in use.


I would guess the 10A rating you refer to is stamped or embossed on the
plug face and not the cord, which is very common.


** The only meaningful markings are the APPROVAL code numbers which must be
marked on each plug and the cable.

These numbers start with letters indicating the Australian state where type
approval was obtained, ie V = Victoria, N = NSW, Q = Queensland etc.

Looking inside many of the generic ATX computer cases that are fitted with
PSUs will often yeild one of these unapproved (and unapprovable) cordsets
(in a bag) which are intended for Chinese domestic consumption.


** I really doubt the Chinese are so utterly reckless as to consider such
leads as mentioned by the OP legal trade there.

The Chinese " love their children too " - you know.



........ Phil
 
A

atec

Jan 1, 1970
0
Dave said:
Although this is related to a US style cordset this is a serious issue that
is becoming more prevalent. As China uses the same domestic outlet style as
AU/NZ there are more cords being sourced and supplied from there that do not
meet the basic AU/NZ standards for the cordset and mains plug. There is
also no understanding about light, ordinary or heavy duty ratings or about
the hot condition ratings for the connectors.

I would guess the 10A rating you refer to is stamped or embossed on the plug
face and not the cord, which is very common. Looking inside many of the
generic ATX computer cases that are fitted with PSUs will often yeild one of
these unapproved (and unapprovable) cordsets (in a bag) which are intended
for Chinese domestic consumption.
Try pulling some of these 500 watt psu apart , 5v rails on .6 mm wire.
 
A

Alex Gibson

Jan 1, 1970
0
kreed said:
I remember a thread on here a couple of years back about under-rated
cables used on IEC leads, unfortunately the situation seems to be
getting worse rather than better.


Just received an IEC lead with a computer power supply, the lead in
question is 1m long, and has a USA plug on one end, and a standard IEC
socket on the other end. The socket is clearly marked 10a 250v. The
cable is marked as 0.5mm squared. The entire 2 layer 3 core insulated
cable is approximately 5mm thick, and has a measurement of about 0.5
ohms on each of the 3 wires from end to end (which gives about 1 ohm
total resistance in the circuit).

Just looking at how thin the cable was, and the light weight of it
alarmed me.


Compared with a 2m length of approved (Cable marked: FUJIKURA AS3181
LIC: 1025) 1.0mm square 3 core cable (approx 7.5 mm diameter) fitted
with similar connections, you get less than .1 ohm per core using the
same meter (fluke 87). (note that this is for 2m - not 1m - I didnt
have a 1 metre length handy to do a comparison)


Considering that the thin cable was obviously intended for use in the
US 120v market, and therefore the same type of appliance used there
will be drawing DOUBLE the current of our 240v system, this makes
matters even worse and a serious risk of fire if used on a 10a
appliance.

Best I've seen was an appliance from India
(sensor system base station) , they used 22 gauge
for the internal 240V wiring (had a current draw 1A).
Had crimped spade lugs for some terminations , soldering for others.
All internal wiring was the same colour.

The aluminium front panel provided the connection
between the frame , case and ground.

The power supply was a modified computer psu
with the iec socket removed from the power supply
and directly wired to the iec socket on the back of the case.

The soldering on the psu was very bad and there was no grommet
on where the wires came through the case.

Amazing thing was when stuck on an appliance tester
it withstood 500V 25A and passed the earth tests.

Alex
 
K

kreed

Jan 1, 1970
0
Phil said:
"kreed"


** That was my thread, back in August 2002.

With heckling by " Miro " and generous assistance by Ross Herbert from WA.




** Whaaaaaaaaaattttttt ??????

You sure the resistance value is that high ?




** Sounds like the one I found - but much worse.

The wire inside that was not even copper, but a much higher resistance alloy
!!




** 1 sq mm copper wire has only 17 or 18 milliohms per metre !!

That amount will handle 7.5 to 10 amps OK in a two conductor lead.




** Absoblooominglutely !!!!!

Care to check those resistance values again with more accuracy ?

Maybe use a 1 amp DC source ( bench PSU in current limit) and measure the
voltage drop along the cable.

After the silly shitfight that happened over this in 2002 mostly by
people who didnt seem to know - (and worse still didnt want to know) -
the basic laws of physics or ohms law, I Decided to do a "real world"
test on the cable, using a "Bi-Lo" electric Jug. The jug was labelled
at 2400w @ 240v), however measurement of the element resistance at room
temperature showed 27.5 ohm and the mains voltage used was 237.5v so
this would mean that the jug was drawing 8.64 A from the mains. (The
measured current was actually 8.63a)

A fluke 87 meter was used for the measurements shown

Firstly tried measuring the voltage drop along the 2m length of
approved IEC cord mentioned in the original post. This showed a
voltage drop of 0.52v across each conductor when the jug was turned on
from cold. This indicated a cable resistance of approx. 30 milliohm
per metre. (including the resistance of the connectors molded onto the
cord). (I suppose we can assume an approximate 12 milliohm loss in the
plug, socket etc in the circuit from this ?)

With the jug again at room temperature the suspect cable was then
connected in the circuit. This showed an alarming 5.3v (note 5.3v not
0.53v) drop along each core of the 1m lead when the jug was switched on
from cold. According to my calculations, this shows a cold resistance
of the cable assembly of around 0.61 ohm (about 0.49 ohm if we take the
connector losses mentioned above into account ?)

Within 30 seconds, the cable was getting quite warm, and within a
minute, small amounts of smoke were noticed. The mains power was shut
off immediately, and the water in the jug was nowhere near boiling
point.

I stripped back about 1.5 inch of outer insulation from the cable, so
as to look at the state of the internal conductors, they were all black
in colour, and looking at the copper internal of one of the wires, it
looked like copper to me, and it readily took solder when I tried it.
However it was thinner even than than the normal grey cheap & nasty
figure "speaker wire" that is often sold at major electronic retailers.


I let everything cool down, and tried again, the meter was connected in
parallel with one core of the cable in order to measure the voltage
drop in real time. The jug was then switched on and the meter again
read 5.3v. it took a couple of minutes for the jug to start to reach
boiling point, and in that time the voltage loss steadily rose from 5.3
v to 5.58 v The cable began to smoke and melt, and I observed the
insulation on the exposed inner wires beginning to melt and stick to
the others, I turned off the power as I had no desire to short circuit
the workshop supply. One part of the cable had sat in a circle over
itself, and sat over another part of the cable, these 2 parts had
softened sufficiently to stick themselves together quite well

The bodgy cable was labelled "3 x 0.5mm sq"

Remembering that this test was at 8.6a, and not the full 10a, it would
have been a lot worse if the cord was used on a 10amp appliance, or on
a 10a electric jug in an area where the mains was around 250-260v
(which does happen)

The same test done (from cold to boiling) with the "real" 1.0mm sq lead
showed no significant cable warming.

Was the supplier in Aussie ??

Please keep us informed.

Came from Australian Ebay seller, it was a PC based commercial arcade
(video game) board system. It included a standard "off the shelf" 300w
ATX supply, and this dodgy IEC cable.
 
P

Phil Allison

Jan 1, 1970
0
"kreed"
After the silly shitfight that happened over this in 2002 mostly by
people who didnt seem to know - (and worse still didnt want to know) -
the basic laws of physics or ohms law, I Decided to do a "real world"
test on the cable, using a "Bi-Lo" electric Jug. The jug was labelled
at 2400w @ 240v), however measurement of the element resistance at room
temperature showed 27.5 ohm and the mains voltage used was 237.5v so
this would mean that the jug was drawing 8.64 A from the mains. (The
measured current was actually 8.63a)

A fluke 87 meter was used for the measurements shown

Firstly tried measuring the voltage drop along the 2m length of
approved IEC cord mentioned in the original post. This showed a
voltage drop of 0.52v across each conductor when the jug was turned on
from cold. This indicated a cable resistance of approx. 30 milliohm
per metre. (including the resistance of the connectors molded onto the
cord). (I suppose we can assume an approximate 12 milliohm loss in the
plug, socket etc in the circuit from this ?)

With the jug again at room temperature the suspect cable was then
connected in the circuit. This showed an alarming 5.3v (note 5.3v not
0.53v) drop along each core of the 1m lead when the jug was switched on
from cold. According to my calculations, this shows a cold resistance
of the cable assembly of around 0.61 ohm (about 0.49 ohm if we take the
connector losses mentioned above into account ?)

Within 30 seconds, the cable was getting quite warm, and within a
minute, small amounts of smoke were noticed. The mains power was shut
off immediately, and the water in the jug was nowhere near boiling
point.

I stripped back about 1.5 inch of outer insulation from the cable, so
as to look at the state of the internal conductors, they were all black
in colour, and looking at the copper internal of one of the wires, it
looked like copper to me, and it readily took solder when I tried it.
However it was thinner even than than the normal grey cheap & nasty
figure "speaker wire" that is often sold at major electronic retailers.


I let everything cool down, and tried again, the meter was connected in
parallel with one core of the cable in order to measure the voltage
drop in real time. The jug was then switched on and the meter again
read 5.3v. it took a couple of minutes for the jug to start to reach
boiling point, and in that time the voltage loss steadily rose from 5.3
v to 5.58 v The cable began to smoke and melt, and I observed the
insulation on the exposed inner wires beginning to melt and stick to
the others, I turned off the power as I had no desire to short circuit
the workshop supply. One part of the cable had sat in a circle over
itself, and sat over another part of the cable, these 2 parts had
softened sufficiently to stick themselves together quite well

The bodgy cable was labelled "3 x 0.5mm sq"

Remembering that this test was at 8.6a, and not the full 10a, it would
have been a lot worse if the cord was used on a 10amp appliance, or on
a 10a electric jug in an area where the mains was around 250-260v
(which does happen)

The same test done (from cold to boiling) with the "real" 1.0mm sq lead
showed no significant cable warming.



Came from Australian Ebay seller, it was a PC based commercial arcade
(video game) board system. It included a standard "off the shelf" 300w
ATX supply, and this dodgy IEC cable.


** The scenario you describe here is close to IDENTICAL to that with the IEC
cable I saw back in 2002 - maybe even a tad worse.

With around 300 milliohms pre metre of conductor - the equivalent copper
cross-section is only * 0.06 sq mm * or 13 times less than the minimum
required by law !!!!!!

Gotta be the same high resistance ( bronze wire ? ) alloy I saw.

Must be a lot of these horrors floating about, packed in with Chinese
electronic items.


BTW:

I just checked out the IEC lead that came with my DSE Q1803 CRO - no
problems, had all the right markings and passed the "jug test" easily.

Responsible importers ARE aware of their legal obligations re IEC
appliance leads and simply REMOVE any non-approved ones and replace them in
the packing.




........ Phil
 
P

Phil Allison

Jan 1, 1970
0
"Alex Gibson"
Best I've seen was an appliance from India........

( snip silly whinge)


** Yawn - that is not a life threatening hazard to anyone.

An IEC lead with high resistance wire in it damn well IS !!!!

No mater what it was originally sold with, an IEC type general purpose
appliance lead can and will be transferred to another appliance, at some or
other, time that draws 10 amps of AC current.

The unsuspecting owner of the illegal ones will then have either a fire on
their hands or else a very serious electrocution hazard.

If the culprits supplying such illegal IEC leads can be identified and
located, the relevant state government energy safety authority will ( once
informed ) act very promptly to stop them and or prosecute them.

Ross Herbert and myself have found the state authorities take a VERY
SERIOUS view of this kind of public safety offence.

I bet the courts will too.



....... Phil
 
J

jasen

Jan 1, 1970
0
Just received an IEC lead with a computer power supply, the lead in
question is 1m long, and has a USA plug on one end, and a standard IEC
socket on the other end. The socket is clearly marked 10a 250v. The
cable is marked as 0.5mm squared. The entire 2 layer 3 core insulated
cable is approximately 5mm thick, and has a measurement of about 0.5
ohms on each of the 3 wires from end to end (which gives about 1 ohm
total resistance in the circuit).

That's very high, I get 0.6 ohms for about 10m of 24AWG telephone wire.

Bye.
Jasen
 
K

kreed

Jan 1, 1970
0
Bye.
Jasen


it is, but 10m of telephone wire might at least stand a better chance
of dissipating the heat over a 10m length than this crap "mains cable"
 
D

Dave

Jan 1, 1970
0
Phil Allison said:
"Dave" ??? Not Dave Castels ????

No.


** The only meaningful markings are the APPROVAL code numbers which must
be marked on each plug and the cable.

Sorry, maybe I didn't explain it well enough. Often the plugs have the
voltage and current rating embossed into the plug-face, and for approved
types the approval number will be too. So the 10A rating may be for the
plug but not the cord. The plug molder and the cord maker will usually not
be the same factory, and neither of them will have much of an idea about the
true parameters of the products as they will have copied it from someone
else anyway. The problem gets worse as maker(x) copied maker(3) who copied
maker(2) who copied maker(1) who was an OEM contract maker.

The chinese domestic market plugs look the same as AU/NZ ones but there is
no approval marking. The Chinese ones are also appearing with insulated
pins although they are not required in China. These are just as DANGEROUS
as the under-rated cords because the insulated pins snap off in the socket,
leaving exposed metallic parts.
** I really doubt the Chinese are so utterly reckless as to consider such
leads as mentioned by the OP legal trade there.

The Chinese " love their children too " - you know.

It all comes down to lack of knowledge rather than intent. The cords
mentioned above are indeed sold within China in large numbers quite legally.
For an ITE device such as a PC the cord will not cause a problem due to
overheating. As pointed out in another post (by you I think) the problem
arises when the cord finds its way elsewhere. No doubt time will tell that
this is a problem over there and as the marketplace matures they will put
better regulations put in place.
 
P

Phil Allison

Jan 1, 1970
0
"Dave the Context Snipper from Hell
"Phil Allison"


Sorry, maybe I didn't explain it well enough.


** No - you were just plain wrong.

Approved leads must use a 3 core cable with at least 0.75 sq mm copper
conductors.

Such a lead runs comfortably at 7.5 amps and a tad warm at 10 amps.

So, despite there being a variety of conductor gauges, no lead is dangerous
in use.



It all comes down to lack of knowledge rather than intent.


** That is COMPLETELY ASININE CRAP !!!

Smacks APPALLINGLY of RACISM too.


The cords mentioned above are indeed sold within China in large numbers
quite legally.

** Bollocks.


For an ITE device such as a PC the cord will not cause a problem due to
overheating. As pointed out in another post (by you I think) the problem
arises when the cord finds its way elsewhere. No doubt time will tell
that this is a problem over there and as the marketplace matures they will
put better regulations put in place.


** I really doubt the Chinese are so utterly reckless as to consider such
leads as mentioned by the OP legal trade there.

The Chinese " love their children too " - you know.

Not matter what some anonymous fuckheads like " Dave " will have you
believe .





........ Phil
 
K

KeithR

Jan 1, 1970
0
kreed said:
I remember a thread on here a couple of years back about under-rated
cables used on IEC leads, unfortunately the situation seems to be
getting worse rather than better.

It comes down to price, I have a mate who sells these things in Europe. He
used to have a small factory where he made cables, now he buys container
loads from China. The whole assembly costs less than he can buy one of the
plugs for, parts, labour, shipping and duty included. Somewhere corners
have to be being cut, but, as he says, he would have no market for the home
grown ones, they cost a dollar more.

Well I dont think that is quite true, I saw a one metre IEC cable in a pommy
Hi Fi mag, it was 450 pounds Sterling. However the review reckonned it was
worth it, as it gave a much more fluid sound and an expanded sound stage
whatever that means.

Keith
 
P

Phil Allison

Jan 1, 1970
0
"Keith Ratbag Fuckwit **** "
It comes down to price,



** WRONG !!!!!!!!!!!!


- it is actually vert much a matter of life and death ....

for babies

and 5 year olds.



What a pile of sub human SHIT you ARE !~!




........ Phil
 
D

Dave

Jan 1, 1970
0
Phil Allison said:
"Dave the Context Snipper from Hell

Well I only bother including thr bits relevant to the discussion, the rest I
agreed with or had no comment on.
Approved leads must use a 3 core cable with at least 0.75 sq mm copper
conductors.

Since you kept this bit in I assume you believe it is significant. Two core
leads are OK providing they are not attached to three position connectors...
yes I am sure you know that but there are others who don't.
So, despite there being a variety of conductor gauges, no lead is dangerous
in use.

Your left the word APPROVED out. In which case I agree, except for
counterfeit products.
** That is COMPLETELY ASININE CRAP !!!

Smacks APPALLINGLY of RACISM too.

I'll leave all this in. Since your shouting it I guess it has to be
important..

Of course the Chinese love their kids too... and although I know precisiely
what you mean by it, ignorance or plain lack of knowing better, kills plenty
of people every day in all kinds of fields. As for me being racist, I showed
this to one of our chinese engineers today and asked him... he doesn't think
so.... and as for my comment (> > It all comes down to lack of knowledge
rather than intent.) as he put it "they don't know what they don't know" and
of course neither do any of us if you look at it logically.
** Bollocks.
** I really doubt the Chinese are so utterly reckless as to consider such
leads as mentioned by the OP legal trade there.

The Chinese " love their children too " - you know.

Not matter what some anonymous fuckheads like " Dave " will have you
believe .

Unfortunately the case just isn't that simple. In Au we have a minimum
conductor size (as you pointed out previously) which effectively outlaws the
sale of light duty cords fitted with certain types of connectors (such as
IEC60320 Type C.13). However although China does require certification of
cords they have a much less restrictive definition. See
www.sccc.ch/download/info/ccc/20030618_CCC_Regulations.pdf

Experience is what led to the declaring definition being worded the way it
is here. As the CCC scheme matures further these sorts of issues may get
included. UL have a similar approach to AU in that they have additional
criteria they apply during type certification.

I will add this last bit below simply because I find it very important to
counter what you inferred... the inference being that because the Chinese
love their kids they wouldn't do anything to endanger them.

A large part of my business involves correcting similar assumptions.
Specifically companies go to the various trade shows and buy product on the
basis that it must be OK otherwise the vendor wouldn't be able or allowed to
sell it. This assumption costs AU importers millions of dollars per year -
looking through www.recalls.gov.au will give an idea of what happens to a
variety of products which are imported and sold based on assumptions the
factory must know what they are doing. What appears on the recall site is
but a fraction of what is recalled/reworked/repaired for reasons other than
saftey issues.

I really think you have got the right idea sometimes Phil and some of the
stuff you post is sensible and has history to back it up. Normally I
wouldn't even bother replying to a circular argument but if there are people
thnking about importing stuff from anywhere using an assumption "it'll be
alright because the factory says it is", and because "they already sell lots
elsewhere", the buyers needs to ensure they have a decent product assessment
program to verify all is indeed OK.

I am only anon in here to avoid our servers getting bombed by spam. If
anyone wants to contact me I am happy to help, all they have to do is ask
and I'll provide a working ISP based email address.
 
P

Phil Allison

Jan 1, 1970
0
" Dave Castels ?? "

Well I only bother including thr bits relevant to the discussion,


** The CONTEXT must NEVER be snipped out of sight .

Only LIARS and CHEATS do that.



Since you kept this bit in I assume you believe it is significant.


** The 0.75sq mm bit is VERY significant.

No way a sub human pile of ASD fucked SHIT called Dave Castels has even
the faintest clue what is.



I'll leave all this in. Since your shouting it I guess it has to be
important..



** Dave is not just your *average* brain dead, * RACIST * ASD fucked
****.

Dave is the real deal .... a child murdering, racist psychopath.


Of course the Chinese love their kids too... and although I know
precisiely
what you mean by it,


** Dave, the child killer, has not got even the tiniest clue.

About any damn thing, what so fucking ever.



I will add this last bit below simply because I find it very important to
counter what you inferred... the inference being that because the Chinese
love their kids they wouldn't do anything to endanger them.


** OKeee ..............

- so this Dave is a sub human, ASD fucked, RACIST PUKE believes the
Chinese deliberately endanger their children.


A large part of my business involves correcting similar assumptions.


** So this Dave sub human ASD fucked, RACIST PUKE actually ENCOURAGES
people to deliberately endanger their children's lives.

PLEASE:

Anyone here care to track this ** CRIMINAL PSYCHOPATH ** down to
whatever fucking shit hole he hides in so she can be shot though the head
??

A single bullet will do.

Nothing much of value to hit.


I am only anon in here to avoid our servers getting bombed by spam.


** No fucking way is that true !!!

Dave is * anonymous* here so HE and his entire brain fucked family will
not be * bombed * by an army of outraged, honest citizens.


None of whom want a SUB HUMAN MONSTER like this Dave piece of shit
anywhere near them.




......... Phil
 
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