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HV Rat Killer

Discussion in 'Power Electronics' started by Incony, Jul 8, 2019.

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  1. Incony

    Incony

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    I have a Morite 0 - 110v primary transformer with a 0 - 500 - 800v secondary. i think it would lend itself to creating a HV DC supply with sufficient current and voltage to cause instant death to a rodent. ive seen the ones available on the web.. but given i have this TX anyone any circuit ideas to make a very nasty and quick rodent killer? its to stop and terminate rodents that pilfer my bird table... so its going to be hidden on the favoured route with bait like peanut butter. and it needs to be self contained. so its going to be in a cage with one way in.
     
  2. dave9

    dave9

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    Mar 5, 2017
    No need, merely mix rat poison into the peanut butter.
     
    davenn likes this.
  3. Incony

    Incony

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    TY Dave but that wasn't what i asked, or what i want. i am looking at using this TX to charge a cap. and provide a lethal timed zap, the same way animals are killed humanely. Rat poison, drowning etc are not quick deaths. DC volt/current seizure stops hearts.. death is instant.. i can probably work out how to use this TX to do the job myself.. i just thought it would save me time working it out, if someone with more skill than me, had a useful contribution.. Rat poison isn't one . Rectifying that 800V AC secondary is pretty lethal as it is.. its a substantial TX - perhaps good for 500 VA rating.. on short cycle use. i dont want to stop feeding the birds. i want to kill the rats fast and humanely.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
  4. KMoffett

    KMoffett

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    Rat poison means you will have dead rats decaying in places where you can't find them. :(

    Ken
     
    Braeden Hamson likes this.
  5. dave9

    dave9

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    Not sure where you get the idea that electrocution induced death is a certainty, or humane/painless. Neither is necessarily true, unless you're going to strap the rat down first and put a little homemade rat electrocution helmet on it :D after administering a sedative and pain killer. Perhaps just give it a stronger sedative and pain killer instead in the peanut butter and again no need for electrocution.

    It is not the same way animals are killed humanely unless you mean bug zappers. Nowhere I'm aware of, do people put up lethal shock traps. Electric fences to keep animals in/out of an area perhaps.

    You would be building something dangerous to humans, for an area you'll presumably occupy on a regular basis. This seems quite reckless to me.
     
  6. dave9

    dave9

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    The better solution is don't allow any areas where they can enter, but you can put the bait in a trap-box where they are contained, then you don't have to deal with killing or releasing it later. For that matter you could make the box small and air-tight when sprung, then the rat will lose consciousness and die from lack of oxygen instead of using poison. CO2 asphyxiation is considered humane.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
  7. hevans1944

    hevans1944 Hop - AC8NS

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    Instead of coming here, where most of us enjoy peaceful pursuits such as lighting strings of LEDs in our spare time, why not use Google to direct you to all sorts of electrical mayhem involving mice, rodents, and maybe even elephants if you can find a link to how Thomas Alva Edison (famous inventor) did it. I will provide this one link, but after that you are on your own. BTW, the last time I killed a rat, I cornered it in the basement and stomped it to death. Easy peasy, but I think I was more afraid of the rat than the rat was afraid of me.
     
  8. Incony

    Incony

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    This is an electronics forum isnt it? Have i not asked an electronics question and not got one electronics forum dedicated reply? is this forum really a mask :) guys get real, i ask in a power supply topic, how to use a particular tx to create high DC, Volt/Current source, i share why i want it, not to have you determine that.. not one of you is worth the reply you give so far.. you do not serve this forum well by avoiding its purpose.. which is? save the animals or discuss electronic circuits? i cant delete my OP ,i dont have that choice, but i will not be discouraged from seeking the answer to an electrical problem on an electrical forum by those who have no intention of providing an electrical dedicated answer.. so keep shouting, i`m not bored yet, i will take you on as far as you want to go.. its your ridicule not mine.


    .
     
  9. dave9

    dave9

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    There is a difference between reusing an old transformer for a hobby project and creating a 500VA electrocution device when you don't know where to start.

    If you really want to electrocute them, I recommend buying a ~$50 battery powered unit. By the time you create a safe enclosure, devise a voltage multiplier (they are typically closer to 10KV not 800V), devise a timing circuit and switch, devise and test shock duration and various electrodes (how will you lure the rat in while you are present to do this?), with logic that stops shocking the rat once it's dead, you might eventually be able to produce this dangerous device with more time spent on it than it's worth compared to buying one ready made.

    How humane will it be to shock test rats to figure out if it is effective? Lethal voltage electrocution machine is not the way to start learning electronics.
     
  10. duke37

    duke37

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    Oh dear:)

    Your 110V primary transformer will be no good to be fed from 230V, it will go pop.
    Electric fences use a very high voltage, several kV but the energy in the discharging capacitor capacitor is limited to about 1J or in some countries 10J. The high voltage is necessary to spark through fur and make a good connection.

    Many years ago the local radio club had a construction contest and a rat killer was entered, This consisted of a metal plate connected to neutral and a smaller plate on pillars connected to 230V live via a current limiting resistor. I have no idea whether this worked but rats can gnaw through PVC wiring without coming to any harm.

    If yoy are dead set on developing this, then use a 250-0-250V transformer, doubled. The DC capacitor will not be cheap.
     
  11. Martaine2005

    Martaine2005

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    The alternative solutions have been clearly quoted. Your device would be dangerous to every living creature.
    You talk about your bird table. Do you think ONLY birds like millet, sun flower seeds, hemp, mealworm, sunflower hearts etc etc etc..
    Having a bird table is a cafe for rodents and unwanted birds such as jays, black birds, rooks, pidgeons, magpies etc etc.
    People believe a pet shop. This feed mix is for finches! This mix is for macaws! ,Wow, a new mix for parakeets. ALL SEEDS invite many animals night and day.
    Think of a fish tank, top feeders, window licking feeders and bottom feeders eating the leftovers. Same happens with your bird table!.
    Invite nature and nature will arrive. You can't dictate who, what and when. Buy an air rifle and choose. Have some fun while at it.
    I personally go for the air rifle. Ratting is great fun!.

    EDIT: Forgot to mention a proven concept. Simply insert your stake or pole for the bird feeder and rub/apply oil to the pole. I have so much fun watching the squirrels try and slide back down. Even the squirrels have learnt and wait on the ground for the spray of goodness..
    EDIT TWO: Now I am going to play with a string of LED's :p
    Martin
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
  12. Incony

    Incony

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    Dave i do know where to start, i understand electronics, , ive been an engineer for 40 years, i built things that the MOD used to study nuclear research, built and installed the klystron tx`s for channel 4 across the uk.. maintained and installed overhead cranes at Sizewell that lift £9 million pound turbines from generators. This is not new stuff to me... and i just included what my intention was, out of reference, not critique from folks who choose to assume and reply without knowing. i see no reason to continue this thread or share now, what i make using this TX, that once was part of a plasma droplet machine... and 800v as you know, or should know, when rectified to DC at even low current, is lethal... i know that... bye folks .. your loss not mine.
     
  13. dave9

    dave9

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    It would be my loss if I assisted you in electrocuting yourself or a 3rd (non-rat :eek:) party. More yours than mine but I would feel remorse.

    As an engineer for 40 years you should know that many things aren't worth the time to build from scratch unless you can make it significantly better than available products, enough to bother.

    I don't see that being the case here. You have an overpowered, undervoltage transformer which you might as well not have. A small transformer of the right voltage is not expensive, the rest of it is (compared to buying one ready made) in parts and labor.
     
  14. Martaine2005

    Martaine2005

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    I think he has gone!, We will never know how the rats got to his bird table.
    Hmm, Maybe , maybe not. Buy an air rifle!.. Job done!
     
  15. Bluejets

    Bluejets

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    Seems more like he has bats in his belfry to me.:confused:
     
  16. hevans1944

    hevans1944 Hop - AC8NS

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    One can always hope. It usually takes months before his kind leave the forums. Go back and read his previous posts. It is quite apparent that this guy knows nothing about electronics or electronic design. An engineer? Not bloody likely, but maybe they handed those degrees out like gum-drops forty years ago...
     
  17. WHONOES

    WHONOES

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    I think this guy has an over inflated ego that cannot bear to be challenged. One can only hope that he does indeed keep to his promise to quit this forum and leave it to those who are prepared to listen to other learned persons opinions and safety warnings when embarking upon their own projects be they beginners or seasoned professionals.
     
  18. davenn

    davenn Moderator

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    Sep 5, 2009
    time to close this thread :)
     
    hevans1944 likes this.
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