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HP 4145B on life support...organ donor urgenlty needed

P

Phil Hobbs

Jan 1, 1970
0
Well, it finally happened: the floppy disc drive on my HP 4145B
Semiconductor Parameter Analyzer ate itself for lunch. I'd left it
running for months, because I wasn't sure how long it would last after
the previous repair, and with the Labor Day shutdown at the lab, it
indeed came up very, very sick.

Those floppy drives are tough to find, because they're what always
break. Does anybody know of a place to get one?

Alternatively, given that I've already spent my capital budget for the
year, any suggestions on a simple way of making nice accurate I-V curves
without using Labview?

Thanks,

Phil Hobbs
 
M

Michael A. Terrell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Phil said:
Well, it finally happened: the floppy disc drive on my HP 4145B
Semiconductor Parameter Analyzer ate itself for lunch. I'd left it
running for months, because I wasn't sure how long it would last after
the previous repair, and with the Labor Day shutdown at the lab, it
indeed came up very, very sick.

Those floppy drives are tough to find, because they're what always
break. Does anybody know of a place to get one?

Alternatively, given that I've already spent my capital budget for the
year, any suggestions on a simple way of making nice accurate I-V curves
without using Labview?

Thanks,

Phil Hobbs


What is so special about the drive?


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
 
A

Adam Stouffer

Jan 1, 1970
0
Michael said:
What is so special about the drive?

Most likely a proprietery format known only to HP. Other than labview
you are left to using a real plotter?


Adam
 
Q

qrk

Jan 1, 1970
0
Well, it finally happened: the floppy disc drive on my HP 4145B
Semiconductor Parameter Analyzer ate itself for lunch. I'd left it
running for months, because I wasn't sure how long it would last after
the previous repair, and with the Labor Day shutdown at the lab, it
indeed came up very, very sick.

Those floppy drives are tough to find, because they're what always
break. Does anybody know of a place to get one?

Alternatively, given that I've already spent my capital budget for the
year, any suggestions on a simple way of making nice accurate I-V curves
without using Labview?

Thanks,

Phil Hobbs

Can you do a GPIB dump and run the data into GnuPlot? National
Instruments has a GPIB package, combined with a ethernet to GPIB
converto box, that allows you to do GPIB calls via command line. We
use this technique to do data dumps or screen grabs from various
instruments. A batch file to grab data and run gnuplot makes this task
easy.
 
R

Robert

Jan 1, 1970
0
qrk said:
Can you do a GPIB dump and run the data into GnuPlot? National
Instruments has a GPIB package, combined with a ethernet to GPIB
converto box, that allows you to do GPIB calls via command line. We
use this technique to do data dumps or screen grabs from various
instruments. A batch file to grab data and run gnuplot makes this task
easy.

Also there are several people around with programs that emulate HPGL
Plotters that can take the data from a GPIB dump.

Here is one but he doesn't list your instrument. It may still work. And I've
seen others around.

http://www.thegleam.com/ke5fx/gpib/7470.htm

Robert
 
F

Fred Bartoli

Jan 1, 1970
0
Adam Stouffer a écrit :
Most likely a proprietery format known only to HP.


The disk format is not dictated by the drive unit but by the FDC
controller and software. And it'd be surprising that HP used something
else than a common disk drive.

I'd simply try any ordinary 3.5" drive and it should work.
Guess this won't break your budget too much :)
 
M

mc

Jan 1, 1970
0
The disk format is not dictated by the drive unit but by the FDC
controller and software. And it'd be surprising that HP used something
else than a common disk drive.

I'd simply try any ordinary 3.5" drive and it should work.
Guess this won't break your budget too much :)

Well said. There should be a newsgroup in the comp.periphs hierarchy where
people really know about diskette drives. If a plain PC drive doesn't work,
it's probably a very minor matter of jumper settings or something. BTW, is
it 360K, 720K, or 1.4MB?
 
P

Phil Hobbs

Jan 1, 1970
0
Fred said:
Adam Stouffer a écrit :




The disk format is not dictated by the drive unit but by the FDC
controller and software. And it'd be surprising that HP used something
else than a common disk drive.

I'd simply try any ordinary 3.5" drive and it should work.
Guess this won't break your budget too much :)
Nah, the electrical interface is completely nonstandard. It's a pre-PS/2,
pre-Macintosh drive. The disc format is weird--single density, for a start,
because of the drive limitations.

Cheers,

Phil Hobbs
 
P

Phil Hobbs

Jan 1, 1970
0
qrk said:
Can you do a GPIB dump and run the data into GnuPlot? National
Instruments has a GPIB package, combined with a ethernet to GPIB
converto box, that allows you to do GPIB calls via command line. We
use this technique to do data dumps or screen grabs from various
instruments. A batch file to grab data and run gnuplot makes this task
easy.

I'd be perfectly happy with a scope camera, for that matter. This gizmo
_boots_ off the floppy, so without it, it's completely flatline.

Cheers,

Phil Hobbs
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hello Phil,
Nah, the electrical interface is completely nonstandard. It's a
pre-PS/2, pre-Macintosh drive. The disc format is weird--single
density, for a start, because of the drive limitations.

Can't help you with a spare but I'd go out on EBay and look for a few
dilapidated units that are cheap. Busted CRT, whatever. These drives
were used in lots of HP gear. There is also a "bone yard" vendor that
sells parted out HP and Tek spares but I don't remember the name. Pretty
much like finding an alternator for an old Studebaker.
 
M

Michael A. Terrell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joerg said:
Hello Phil,


Can't help you with a spare but I'd go out on EBay and look for a few
dilapidated units that are cheap. Busted CRT, whatever. These drives
were used in lots of HP gear. There is also a "bone yard" vendor that
sells parted out HP and Tek spares but I don't remember the name. Pretty
much like finding an alternator for an old Studebaker.


Even if the interface is different, some proprietary drives are built
on common drive chassis and you might be able to transplant the PC
board. I have revived a number of oddball 3.5" drives by carefully
cleaning the old lubricant and replacing it with the molly grease for
VCRs or Lubriplate for the thinner lubes.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
 
Phil said:
I'd be perfectly happy with a scope camera, for that matter. This gizmo
_boots_ off the floppy, so without it, it's completely flatline.

Cheers,

Phil Hobbs

I always heard the floppy is essential. However, you can't get one from
HP/Agilent?
 
F

Fred Bartoli

Jan 1, 1970
0
Phil Hobbs a écrit :
Nah, the electrical interface is completely nonstandard. It's a
pre-PS/2, pre-Macintosh drive. The disc format is weird--single
density, for a start, because of the drive limitations.

Do you have the 4145B schematics?
I don't know how much it's different but it probably shares a lot with
modern drives' interface.
Even the 4145A of which Win did send me the FDC board drawing could be
easily made to work with a modern 5.25" HD drive. And I guess with a
3.5" drive too.

Or maybe, if you have one at hand, you could try some of the 9121-9122
floppy drives.
 
J

Jeff Liebermann

Jan 1, 1970
0
Phil Hobbs said:
Nah, the electrical interface is completely nonstandard. It's a pre-PS/2,
pre-Macintosh drive. The disc format is weird--single density, for a start,
because of the drive limitations.

The disk format is called LIF. There are flakey conversion tools for
reading the LIF floppies such as LIF2DOS and LIFUTIL. I've only used
it once. However, I couldn't find any info on whatever hardware HP
used to create the LIF floppy. I'm fairly sure it's NOT a proprietary
interface, but might be wrong. The LIF format is used on a
substantial number of HP boxes and not just on the HP 4145B. If you
can't find a replacement drive for the HP 4145B, try one of the other
models that supports LIF.
 
S

Sam Goldwasser

Jan 1, 1970
0
I didn't see the entire thread but how sure are you that the drive is
toast? Maybe it just didn't like its diet. :)

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included in the
subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.
 
C

colin

Jan 1, 1970
0
Phil Hobbs said:
Well, it finally happened: the floppy disc drive on my HP 4145B
Semiconductor Parameter Analyzer ate itself for lunch. I'd left it
running for months, because I wasn't sure how long it would last after
the previous repair, and with the Labor Day shutdown at the lab, it
indeed came up very, very sick.

Those floppy drives are tough to find, because they're what always
break. Does anybody know of a place to get one?

Alternatively, given that I've already spent my capital budget for the
year, any suggestions on a simple way of making nice accurate I-V curves
without using Labview?

Ive heard this tale a few times here now, I'm surprised no one has emulated
one with a micro and 1.44mb flash chip.

Colin =^.^=
 
W

Winfield Hill

Jan 1, 1970
0
Phil Hobbs wrote...
Nah, the electrical interface is completely nonstandard. It's
a pre-PS/2, pre-Macintosh drive. The disc format is weird--
single density, for a start, because of the drive limitations.

Sounds like you're describing the 4145A drive; the 4145B drive
looks much more advanced to me, and will format today's ordinary
high-density floppies. I can't say, not having the 4145B manual
service section (know where to get a copy?), just for the 4145A.

Anyway, this may be a good time to encourage you to join the
growing effort to eliminate the 4145A and 4145B disk drives
entirely. In the case of the 4145A, which goes to the floppy
for every little thing (ker-chunk... wait...), not to mention
the dead drives, it's a very big deal, but even for the 4145B,
where you can't startup without the floppy, it's still a deal.

My idea is to replace the floppy and the controller, using the
simple 8-bit interface to the floppy-controller IC, where one
could program a uC to simulate the controller and its responses
"from the floppy drive"...

Why not contact Fred and enlist him in this,

F. Bartoli Consultant
98, rue du Charrat
F38960 St Etienne de Crossey
Tel : (33) 08.70.77.82.07
 
F

Fred Bartoli

Jan 1, 1970
0
colin a écrit :
Ive heard this tale a few times here now, I'm surprised no one has emulated
one with a micro and 1.44mb flash chip.

Currently working on one for the 4145A.
If Phil (or others) has some info I don't have about the 4145B, I'll
look at how to make it working with both units. I just have the
operating manual found on agilent's site so any schematics scan is welcomed.
 
B

Bob Scott

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joerg said:
Hello Phil,


Can't help you with a spare but I'd go out on EBay and look for a few
dilapidated units that are cheap. Busted CRT, whatever. These drives were
used in lots of HP gear. There is also a "bone yard" vendor that sells
parted out HP and Tek spares but I don't remember the name. Pretty much
like finding an alternator for an old Studebaker.
Were automotive alternators used in Studebakers? Weren't they using
generators with commutators?

Bob
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
Well, it finally happened: the floppy disc drive on my HP 4145B
Semiconductor Parameter Analyzer ate itself for lunch. I'd left it
running for months, because I wasn't sure how long it would last after
the previous repair, and with the Labor Day shutdown at the lab, it
indeed came up very, very sick.

Those floppy drives are tough to find, because they're what always
break. Does anybody know of a place to get one?

Alternatively, given that I've already spent my capital budget for the
year, any suggestions on a simple way of making nice accurate I-V curves
without using Labview?

Thanks,

Phil Hobbs

Somebody should do a nice little USB curve tracer, with optional
capacitance and junction temp measurement.

Ditto RLC bridge, spectrum analyzer.

Somebody makes a really cool RF power meter like that, just a bump in
the end of a USB cable.

John
 
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