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HP 1650B logic analyser system disk

M

Martin Whybrow

Jan 1, 1970
0
I have just been given an HP 1650B logic analyser but I don't have a system
disk for it so I can't use it :-(
Anyone know where to get hold of this disk or can it be downloaded from
somewhere?
TIA,
Martin.
 
S

Steve

Jan 1, 1970
0
Martin said:
I have just been given an HP 1650B logic analyser but I don't have a system
disk for it so I can't use it :-(
Anyone know where to get hold of this disk or can it be downloaded from
somewhere?
TIA,
Martin.

Martin,
Physically, this is a 3 1/2 inch PC floppy, however the format
is not PC compatible. IIRC, the speed of rotation of the HP drive is
like twice that of a PC. So you will not be able to download it and
copy it from your PC. Duplicating a system disk from or on another
HP 1650B is really your only option. Oh, and make darn sure you make
yourself several copies once you do lay your hands on one.

Thanks, Steve
 
M

Martin Whybrow

Jan 1, 1970
0
Steve said:
Martin,
Physically, this is a 3 1/2 inch PC floppy, however the format
is not PC compatible. IIRC, the speed of rotation of the HP drive is
like twice that of a PC. So you will not be able to download it and
copy it from your PC. Duplicating a system disk from or on another
HP 1650B is really your only option. Oh, and make darn sure you make
yourself several copies once you do lay your hands on one.

Thanks, Steve
Steve
I might be able to do that on my Linux box (most floppy drive parameters can
be altered in software on that system).
I did get hold of a 1652 system disk, but at boot up I got an error message
0020 000B164 2000; not sure if it's because I have the wrong disk or if
there is a fault on the unit (the colleague who gave me the analyser didn't
mention it).
Thanks,
Martin
 
S

Steve

Jan 1, 1970
0
Martin said:
Steve
I might be able to do that on my Linux box (most floppy drive parameters can
be altered in software on that system).
I did get hold of a 1652 system disk, but at boot up I got an error message
0020 000B164 2000; not sure if it's because I have the wrong disk or if
there is a fault on the unit (the colleague who gave me the analyser didn't
mention it).
Thanks,
Martin

Martin,

OK, OK. I've bit the hook. I've got a 1650B right here. Paid all of of
$50 US for mine. Please tell me how to read the disk on my Linux RH 7.3,
running a plain 2.4.27 Kernel, (as if it makes a difference) and I'll
be happy to send you the image. Also have a Fedora box sitting here, too.
Respectfully, I don't think it can be done. Don't have the url
references, but I've read some discussion about this is the distant past,
and the conclusion was a PC drive can not be used. Please prove that
info wrong; it would certainly be a useful tidbit for one/us to know.
Floppy drives are cheap, worth the risk, I guess.... ;^)

Thanks, Steve
 
S

Shawn D'Alimonte

Jan 1, 1970
0
Steve said:
OK, OK. I've bit the hook. I've got a 1650B right here. Paid all of of
$50 US for mine. Please tell me how to read the disk on my Linux RH 7.3,
running a plain 2.4.27 Kernel, (as if it makes a difference) and I'll
be happy to send you the image. Also have a Fedora box sitting here, too.
Respectfully, I don't think it can be done. Don't have the url
references, but I've read some discussion about this is the distant past,
and the conclusion was a PC drive can not be used. Please prove that
info wrong; it would certainly be a useful tidbit for one/us to know.
Floppy drives are cheap, worth the risk, I guess.... ;^)

I am looking for a disk for a 1650A.

Google found references to a program called LIFUTIL for accessing LIF
disks on a DOS PC. I also found links to downloads for the 1650 from
Agilent's FTP server but the files seem to have disappeared in a
reorganization. I emailed Tech Support and they said they aren't there
since it is obsolete.

I have seen test equipment dealers selling the disks, but don't want to
spend much since I have no cables or probes either (Got the 1650 cheap
and figured I would try to make some probes after I got the s/w. Yes, I
know the probe has a terminator in it.).
 
S

Steve

Jan 1, 1970
0
Shawn said:
I am looking for a disk for a 1650A.

Have no clue if the 1650B diskette I have makes any difference.
Google found references to a program called LIFUTIL for accessing LIF
disks on a DOS PC. I also found links to downloads for the 1650 from
Agilent's FTP server but the files seem to have disappeared in a
reorganization. I emailed Tech Support and they said they aren't there
since it is obsolete.

I have seen test equipment dealers selling the disks, but don't want to
spend much since I have no cables or probes either (Got the 1650 cheap
and figured I would try to make some probes after I got the s/w. Yes, I
know the probe has a terminator in it.).


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
Encryption =---

Martin & Shawn,
Grabbed LIFUTIL off the 'net. Ran it on a spare Pentium II machine
that boots DOS ver 5.0. The utility does not allow one to make a perfect
disk image, but it can be used to make an apparently functional HP diskette!
Oddly, the utility allows one to dump the contents of the HP diskette to
an ASCII hex dump file, yet doesn't allow use of said dump file to create
a new diskette. Therefore, it's a bit of work to manually do each file
at a time, but it works. Comparing ASCII dumps of original and the
newly generated diskette, there are blocks of FF's verses zeroes,
(in apparently the directory or "FAT" areas of the diskette) but it
doesn't seem to matter.

After midnight here now -- I'm off to bed. Hopefully can get a
zip file together tomorrow & will email.

Thanks, Steve
 
M

Martin Whybrow

Jan 1, 1970
0
Steve said:
Have no clue if the 1650B diskette I have makes any difference.


Martin & Shawn,
Grabbed LIFUTIL off the 'net. Ran it on a spare Pentium II machine
that boots DOS ver 5.0. The utility does not allow one to make a perfect
disk image, but it can be used to make an apparently functional HP diskette!
Oddly, the utility allows one to dump the contents of the HP diskette to
an ASCII hex dump file, yet doesn't allow use of said dump file to create
a new diskette. Therefore, it's a bit of work to manually do each file
at a time, but it works. Comparing ASCII dumps of original and the
newly generated diskette, there are blocks of FF's verses zeroes,
(in apparently the directory or "FAT" areas of the diskette) but it
doesn't seem to matter.

After midnight here now -- I'm off to bed. Hopefully can get a
zip file together tomorrow & will email.

Thanks, Steve
Steve
I tried automounting the disk on my Linux box (Mandrake 9.1 with customised
kernel) but it wouldn't recognise the disk; I don't know the format used so
I couldn't try manually mounting it. Glad to see that LIFUTIL works, I'll
try to download it.
I tried the same disk on a 1650A today (FW rev 1.0a, my 1650B is FW rev
2.3b) and it booted correctly, but I'm still not sure if it's a version
incompatibility or a fault on the analyser.
Thanks for the advice, looking forward to receiving mail :)
Martin.
 
M

Martin Whybrow

Jan 1, 1970
0
Martin Whybrow said:
Steve
I tried automounting the disk on my Linux box (Mandrake 9.1 with customised
kernel) but it wouldn't recognise the disk; I don't know the format used so
I couldn't try manually mounting it. Glad to see that LIFUTIL works, I'll
try to download it.
I tried the same disk on a 1650A today (FW rev 1.0a, my 1650B is FW rev
2.3b) and it booted correctly, but I'm still not sure if it's a version
incompatibility or a fault on the analyser.
Thanks for the advice, looking forward to receiving mail :)
Martin.
Steve
I've downloaded lifutil; can you tell me what sector size the original disk
is formatted for (256 or 1024 bytes)?
Thanks,
Martin
 
S

Steve

Jan 1, 1970
0
Martin said:
Steve
I've downloaded lifutil; can you tell me what sector size the original disk
is formatted for (256 or 1024 bytes)?
Thanks,
Martin

Martin,

Sounds like you don't need my files anymore, as you got your hands
on a disk. Good. But perhaps I've got a version difference for the
system that can still be of use. Don't know what my versions are,
so I'll look. Indeed, I'd like to get my hands on your versions of
what ever 1650 system files you have, just to have different versions
on hand myself.

Parameters are, 3 1/3 double sided (770KB size)
Sector size 1024
Interleave 1
144 files in root dir
vol label A165X << not sure if it makes any difference

When you copy files from DOS to the LIF format, pick the
binary user defined file type selection. Enter C001 for 1650
system file(s), with 53 4F 54 4F for that other byte field I can't
remember what it is called. Press F3 to get that pop up window
to go away, or F5 to start the file transfer... when doing
1650 non-system file (i.e. "1650 config" files), they are C120
file type... with the same 53 4F 54 4F for the other byte field --
I think. Yet to test that myself.

Took a bit of time to figure that out, comparing the disk
created by LIFUTIL that didn't work with a disk created on
the 1650.

BTW, 1.44 DOS floppies with tape over the 1.44 indicator seem
to work fine for me.

Sorry haven't emailed the files I have yet, but been busy making
a living. Later tonight, I hope.

Thanks, Steve




field
 
M

Martin Whybrow

Jan 1, 1970
0
Steve said:
Martin,

Sounds like you don't need my files anymore, as you got your hands
on a disk. Good. But perhaps I've got a version difference for the
system that can still be of use. Don't know what my versions are,
so I'll look. Indeed, I'd like to get my hands on your versions of
what ever 1650 system files you have, just to have different versions
on hand myself.

Parameters are, 3 1/3 double sided (770KB size)
Sector size 1024
Interleave 1
144 files in root dir
vol label A165X << not sure if it makes any difference

When you copy files from DOS to the LIF format, pick the
binary user defined file type selection. Enter C001 for 1650
system file(s), with 53 4F 54 4F for that other byte field I can't
remember what it is called. Press F3 to get that pop up window
to go away, or F5 to start the file transfer... when doing
1650 non-system file (i.e. "1650 config" files), they are C120
file type... with the same 53 4F 54 4F for the other byte field --
I think. Yet to test that myself.

Took a bit of time to figure that out, comparing the disk
created by LIFUTIL that didn't work with a disk created on
the 1650.

BTW, 1.44 DOS floppies with tape over the 1.44 indicator seem
to work fine for me.

Sorry haven't emailed the files I have yet, but been busy making
a living. Later tonight, I hope.

Thanks, Steve
Steve
Thanks for the files. The 1650 is now working, it seems that the V2.03 ROM
in my machine needs theV2.x system files to boot up, the V1.0 file on the
previous disk I tried was obviously the reason for it not booting. If you
still want to try the V1.0 system file, I'll get hold of the disk again and
copy the files.
Thanks for all your assistance and to Shawn for the pointer to Lifutil :)
Martin
 
S

Shawn D'Alimonte

Jan 1, 1970
0
Martin said:
Thanks for all your assistance and to Shawn for the pointer to Lifutil :)

You're welcome. I wouldn't mind a copy of the files if anyone could get
me a copy. It would be nice to try this thing out.
 
S

Shawn D'Alimonte

Jan 1, 1970
0
Shawn said:
You're welcome. I wouldn't mind a copy of the files if anyone could get
me a copy. It would be nice to try this thing out.

I was able to make a working disk and just thought I would write a
summary to get all the details in one message.

1) Versions
The software version must match the ROM version. We have seen 1.00 and
2.00 ROMs. The ROM version is printed on the screen during the initial
self test. If the versions don't match you will get the message 'Disc
and ROM versions do not match'.

The same software seems to work on 1650A vs 1650B (Maybe that is what
determines the ROM version?)

2) Disks
You will have best luck with a Double Density (720kB) disk. If you
don't have any you can cover the hole on an HD disk (Opposite from the
write protect tab) with tape.

Format the disk under DOS or Windows and make sure there is no bad space.

3) LIFUTIL
The HP1650 uses LIF formatted disks. LIFUTIL program lets you read and
write LIF disks under DOS. It is an old program and hasn't been
supported for years. It will work best on older (Pentium) machines.
LIF was also used by some old HP computers and calculators. Most info
about it on the net refers to these systems.

Get it from ftp://ftp.hpmuseum.org/lif/lifutil/

4) Files
The two important files are:
SYSTEM_ - Operating System
and
PVTEST_ - Diagnostics (Needed to run self-test from the I/O menu)

The other files will be example configurations. The ones I have are
TIMEDEMO, STATEDEMO and MIXEDDEMO.

5) Making the Disk
If you can borrow a working disk your best bet is to make a copy on the
analyzer ([I/O] -> Disc Operations, Select 'Duplicate Disc' as the
operation).

Otherwise put the files you want on the disk and LIFUTIL on a PC with
DOS or Windows (May need to be in DOS mode).

1. Run LIFUTIL
2. Choose 'LIF Initialize'
3. Change the settings to:
- Disk type: 3 /12" Double Sided
- Sector Size: 1024 bytes
- Interleave: 1
- Directory Size: 144 Files
- Volume Label: A165X
4. Press F5 twice to format the disk
5. When it is done press F8 until you see the menu
6. Choose 'DOS to LIF Copy'
7 Use these settings:
- DOS File Name: <File you want to copy, start with SYSTEM_)
- File format conversion: Binary image: No format change, user-def. type
- All other can stay the same
8. With the cursor on the File format conversion line, press F6 to set
the file type.
For system files (SYSTEM_ and PVTEST_)
User-defined LIF file type : C001
Implementation specific field: 534F544F
For config files
User-defined LIF file type : C120
Implementation specific field: 534F544F
For other files (Reverse Assemblers, etc)
Unknown. If you have a disk list it with LIFUTIL. LIFUTIL shows the
type as a signed decimal number. Convert it to hex.
9. Press F5 to start the copy.
10. Repeat 7-9 for any other files you want to copy to the disk.
11. Boot the analyzer with the disk.
12. Make a copy of the disk on the analyzer. This copy may work better
than the one made on your PC due to differences in the drives. Make
another backup copy and put it in a safe place.

6) Error Messages
'ERROR READING SYSTEM FILE' - Wrong file or bad disk
'CANNOT FIND SYSTEM FILE' - Make sure the file SYSTEM_ is on the disk
and has a file type of C001
'ROM and Disc Versions do not match' - Make sure your software version
matches your ROM.
 
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