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How to open chips

J

Janvi

Jan 1, 1970
0
Heard that it is possible to open
IC cases to free the chip for optical
examination and bond wire pull tests
by the use of fuming nitric acid.

Anybody experienced with that procedure?
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Heard that it is possible to open
IC cases to free the chip for optical
examination and bond wire pull tests
by the use of fuming nitric acid.

Anybody experienced with that procedure?

I think it's likely to ruin wirebond-pull testing. But photos will be
OK.

My favorite way to get die photos was to run the plastic package thru
a thick-film firing furnace; then pick off the ash, leaving an
undamaged die.

...Jim Thompson
 
S

Spehro Pefhany

Jan 1, 1970
0
Heard that it is possible to open
IC cases to free the chip for optical
examination and bond wire pull tests
by the use of fuming nitric acid.

Anybody experienced with that procedure?

Do a web search. The chemicals are nasty and expensive if you have to
buy them from a lab supply outfit in small quantities. There are
companies that do this in exchange for reasonable amounts of currency
of various sorts.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
 
D

Don Lancaster

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim said:
I think it's likely to ruin wirebond-pull testing. But photos will be
OK.

My favorite way to get die photos was to run the plastic package thru
a thick-film firing furnace; then pick off the ash, leaving an
undamaged die.

...Jim Thompson

Most adhesive houses also sell epoxy strippers.

--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
voice: (928)428-4073 email: [email protected] fax 847-574-1462

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com
 
J

Jeff

Jan 1, 1970
0
Janvi said:
Heard that it is possible to open
IC cases to free the chip for optical
examination and bond wire pull tests
by the use of fuming nitric acid.

Anybody experienced with that procedure?

Look up info in google for people hacking microcontrollers. Nitric acid is
used to strip the plastic/epoxy, and the chip is then fired up and
microprobed to retrive data. The bond wires seem to remain in tact.
 
M

Mike

Jan 1, 1970
0
Do a web search. The chemicals are nasty and expensive if you have to
buy them from a lab supply outfit in small quantities. There are
companies that do this in exchange for reasonable amounts of currency
of various sorts.

One such company is located close to me in Southern California, and will
decap standard plastic parts for (IIRC) around $50, typically the same day.

-- Mike --
 
M

Mike

Jan 1, 1970
0
I think it's likely to ruin wirebond-pull testing.

Will it? I have parts decapped when I need to probe. After decapping, the
chip and bondwires are exposed and electrically undamaged. We don't use Al
or Cu bondwires, which might be sensitive to the acid. It would seem to me
that if there was mechanical damage, there would also most likely be
electrical damage as well (and I'm presuming a complementary relationship:
the lack of electrical damage implies a lack of mechanical damage).

-- Mike --
 
M

Mac

Jan 1, 1970
0
Doesn't Formic Acid work too ?

Steve

I seem to remember that formic acid is particularly hazardous, but I don't
remember the specifics. Make sure to read the Material Safety Data Sheet
(MSDS) if you use it.

Mac
 
M

Mac

Jan 1, 1970
0
Heard that it is possible to open
IC cases to free the chip for optical
examination and bond wire pull tests
by the use of fuming nitric acid.

Anybody experienced with that procedure?

No, but I wouldn't want to handle fuming nitric acid outside of a properly
equipped lab. Also, you can use fuming nitric acid to make TNT, IIRC. So
maybe people will become interested if they see you buying it. Then again,
it may be so common, and used for so many things that it doesn't register.

Good luck, and be careful.

Mac
 
S

Spehro Pefhany

Jan 1, 1970
0
No, but I wouldn't want to handle fuming nitric acid outside of a properly
equipped lab. Also, you can use fuming nitric acid to make TNT, IIRC. So
maybe people will become interested if they see you buying it. Then again,
it may be so common, and used for so many things that it doesn't register.

When we started dealing with one of the big companies, they required
an company account (which entails a credit check, banking information
and vendor references, so they know you are for real) and a real
person also asked a few questions about what they were to be used for
(even though the chemicals were not very toxic or dangerous AFAIUI).
After you have an account set up for a few years they are not as
fussy. This is for Canada, the US is probably much more paranoid these
days. Both for the above-mentioned concern and for liability issues
(imagine if they were found to have shipped dangerous chemicals to a
kid who injured himself or others). Although you can get all kinds of
weird and wonderful stuff, the prices are insanely high for any kind
of production work. For what they charge for a few kg you can
probably get a MT (metric ton) of many commonly used chemicals. With
disposal issues and hazmat shipping ($$$$), even though we have an
in-house expert on such matters (the consultants for that kind of work
charger at least as much as engineering consultants), I prefer to stay
away from them as much as possible.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
 
J

Janvi

Jan 1, 1970
0
Most adhesive houses also sell epoxy strippers.

do you have any brands or article # already proven?
 
D

Dave Cole

Jan 1, 1970
0
Doesn't Formic Acid work too ?

Formic acid dissolves nylon very well; not sure about epoxy. Maybe acetone?

Dave Cole
 
O

Octa Ex

Jan 1, 1970
0
Heard that it is possible to open
IC cases to free the chip for optical
examination and bond wire pull tests
by the use of fuming nitric acid.

Anybody experienced with that procedure?
No

but I have decapped chips with a lawn mower.
Place the ICs on the lawn and run the running lawn mower over it.
It does a rough job,
but some chips are decapitated well enough to see the wiring!

X X
X
X X
 
S

Stefan Heinzmann

Jan 1, 1970
0
Octa said:
No

but I have decapped chips with a lawn mower.
Place the ICs on the lawn and run the running lawn mower over it.
It does a rough job,
but some chips are decapitated well enough to see the wiring!

That's an interesting technique! Can you recommend specific types of
lawn mower that work well? Is it better to work with a blunt blade or a
sharp blade? From which direction do I approach the IC? Should the lawn
be mown already or is it advantageous to work with longer grass.

Or is that confidential because you're preparing a patent application?
 
A

Aubrey McIntosh

Jan 1, 1970
0
Mac said:
No, but I wouldn't want to handle fuming nitric acid outside of a properly
equipped lab. Also, you can use fuming nitric acid to make TNT, IIRC. So
maybe people will become interested if they see you buying it. Then again,
it may be so common, and used for so many things that it doesn't register.

Good luck, and be careful.

Mac

Perhaps Jim can send me a lead to the precursors of the encapsulant,
or just ask a chip mfr's process chemist or engineer how they clean up
spills.

If I were working with another experienced chemist, and they told me
they were going to work with fuming nitric acid, I would say "when?"

Commonly available "conc. nitric" is 70%, or about 15M. This is the
stuff in the bottles with the red cap in lab storerooms, and it turns
from water white and clear when new to the yellowish liquid with brown
vapor above it in half filled bottles that you may have seen sometime
in your past.

Conc nitric is hazardous in a lot of ways.

I sometimes use a hot mixture of conc. nitric acid acidified with
sulfuric acid (9 HNO3 : 1 H2SO4) to clean glassware and am comfortable
with my ability to handle that mixture. That mixture is such a
powerful oxidizer that it will oxidize iodide to idoine, which will
form purple vapor and needle crystals in the condenser above reflux,
and can be trapped in the condensate. I dress, pay attention, and
make sure a colleague knows what I am doing, change clothes, shower.

Carelessness with conc. nitric can be dangerous, and an interesting
page may be found at http://www.ilpi.com/safety/explosion.html

However,

Fuming nitric is an uglier beast. It is sometimes called 90% nitric.
It is poison. Its vapors are poison. Its decomposition products are
poison. It is dryer than distilled nitric acid. It is hazardous to
add water to it. It is energetic. I have never needed to work with
it.

It is hypergolic with many materials. I have heard rumors that
ordinary old flesh, wet red meat, will spontaineously catch fire on
exposure to it. One page that mentions several combinations of
hypergolic partners is http://www.permanent.com/t-mikesc.htm, though I
don't know how exotically dry their "nitric acid" is. (Chemically,
really, really dry nitric acid would be the nitrogen tetroxide of
rocketry usage on the same page. Nitric acid dried by fractional
distillation is the 70% conc. nitric azeotrope.)

Usually, I think the MSDSes are written by attorneys to cover the
corporations liability, and I make my students read the MSDS for water
and benzaldehyde (the flavor of Maraschino cherries) to keep things in
perspective. Many of the phrases in the MSDS of chemicals that
chemists regard as routine and easy to use are presented in
essentially the same way in the MSDS for fuming nitric. I teach in
lab that this leveling of the report of hazard is an insideous danger
that robs the readers of judgement. I am usually trying to move them
away from a phobia of chemicals.

I am not trying to make you comfortable ragarding fuming nitric acid.

An MSDS for fuming nitric is online at
http://www.sefsc.noaa.gov/HTMLdocs/NitricAcidFuming90.htm

to quote selections:

"
Incompatibilities:
A dangerously powerful oxidizing agent, fuming nitric acid is
incompatible with most substances
"

"Incompatible with" in this context means, in part, "may be hypergolic
at temperature, pressure, and concentration conditions found on the
bench."
 
M

Mac

Jan 1, 1970
0
Perhaps Jim can send me a lead to the precursors of the encapsulant,
or just ask a chip mfr's process chemist or engineer how they clean up
spills.

If I were working with another experienced chemist, and they told me
they were going to work with fuming nitric acid, I would say "when?"

Commonly available "conc. nitric" is 70%, or about 15M. This is the
stuff in the bottles with the red cap in lab storerooms, and it turns
from water white and clear when new to the yellowish liquid with brown
vapor above it in half filled bottles that you may have seen sometime
in your past.

Conc nitric is hazardous in a lot of ways.

I sometimes use a hot mixture of conc. nitric acid acidified with
sulfuric acid (9 HNO3 : 1 H2SO4) to clean glassware and am comfortable
with my ability to handle that mixture. That mixture is such a
powerful oxidizer that it will oxidize iodide to idoine, which will
form purple vapor and needle crystals in the condenser above reflux,
and can be trapped in the condensate. I dress, pay attention, and
make sure a colleague knows what I am doing, change clothes, shower.

Carelessness with conc. nitric can be dangerous, and an interesting
page may be found at http://www.ilpi.com/safety/explosion.html

However,

Fuming nitric is an uglier beast. It is sometimes called 90% nitric.
It is poison. Its vapors are poison. Its decomposition products are
poison. It is dryer than distilled nitric acid. It is hazardous to
add water to it. It is energetic. I have never needed to work with
it.

It is hypergolic with many materials. I have heard rumors that
ordinary old flesh, wet red meat, will spontaineously catch fire on
exposure to it. One page that mentions several combinations of
hypergolic partners is http://www.permanent.com/t-mikesc.htm, though I
don't know how exotically dry their "nitric acid" is. (Chemically,
really, really dry nitric acid would be the nitrogen tetroxide of
rocketry usage on the same page. Nitric acid dried by fractional
distillation is the 70% conc. nitric azeotrope.)

Usually, I think the MSDSes are written by attorneys to cover the
corporations liability, and I make my students read the MSDS for water
and benzaldehyde (the flavor of Maraschino cherries) to keep things in
perspective.

Sodium chloride is similar in that regard.
Many of the phrases in the MSDS of chemicals that
chemists regard as routine and easy to use are presented in
essentially the same way in the MSDS for fuming nitric. I teach in
lab that this leveling of the report of hazard is an insideous danger
that robs the readers of judgement. I am usually trying to move them
away from a phobia of chemicals.

I am not trying to make you comfortable ragarding fuming nitric acid.

I wasn't comfortable to begin with. I'm even less comfortable now.
An MSDS for fuming nitric is online at
http://www.sefsc.noaa.gov/HTMLdocs/NitricAcidFuming90.htm

to quote selections:

"
Incompatibilities:
A dangerously powerful oxidizing agent, fuming nitric acid is
incompatible with most substances
"

"Incompatible with" in this context means, in part, "may be hypergolic
at temperature, pressure, and concentration conditions found on the
bench."

Heh. It's almost like anti-matter. ;-)

Around 15 years ago I worked for EH&S as a student employee at a California
University. Another student and I collected all of the hazardous chemical
and radioactive waste from all the labs on campus, as well as all the
biohazardous material from the health center. It's been long enough that I
have forgotten pretty much all the details of hazardous substances. I
don't work with any chemicals or radionuclides nowadays.

The biohazard stuff we autoclaved and then threw away in the dumpster.
This was the correct procedure, and complied with all applicable
regulations.

Also, we were allowed to store certain short-half-life radioactive waste,
and discard it when it had decayed through enough half-lives. This was
true only for waste not hazardous in some other way. For liquids, we just
poured it down the drain once it decayed out. We did measure the pH and
test for flammability first. Once again, this was all correct procedure
and perfectly legal at the time. The storage facility had a lot of safety
equipment, and was restricted to authorized personnel, obviously.

It was a lot of fun. Probably my favorite part was driving around campus
in the EH&S pickup truck with the radiation hazard sign displayed.

Mac
 
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