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Discussion in 'Electronic Basics' started by Mike C, Feb 13, 2007.

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  1. Anyone who argues about being plonked deserved no less.

    Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
    prove it.
    Member of DAV #85.

    Michael A. Terrell
    Central Florida
  2. Nope, just stating a fact. Like you, he cut's his nose off to spite his
  3. Actually it was to make a joke,[/QUOTE]

    The same might be said of you if you simply tried going out in public.

    You sure seem to find allot of pleasure in it.

    Find me someone besides yourself that thinks the above statement is out of
    line. Your version is like saying, "It's not a good idea to leave all your
    cash laying on the front doorstep".
    Amazing how you can know my intent like that. You should work for the DHS.
    I tried to be nice and helpful to you then, but you'd already made your mind
    up to be mean becuase of the "easy to impress" issue. Just like below, I
    believe their was a winkie at the end of that statement then, but that
    doesn't seem to matter to you. You can be offensive whenever you like but
    others should always be nice to you, is that about right? All you need is
    an excuse and your coming down on anyone, makes no difference what you know
    about them or anything, you just start rattling offensize, hateful remarks.
    Considering the hundreds of horrid things you claimed about me before that,
    are you really that surprised? It's the law of reciprocity Fields, what
    goes around comes around. Of course you could just tone down your shameful
    behavior, but that's not very likely, is it?

    Who struck the first blow between us this time Fields? Or will you continue
    to take the position that you were defending Ed from me? Didn't you bother
    to notice that Ed was the one to jump in and start the whole anti-micro
    thing in this thread? Look for yourself if you don't believe me. Now tell
    me again who won't let it die?

    So I'm the only one around that's not allowed to voice an opinion? Grow up
    John. Just because you like SBC/Yahoo doesn't make them good, or don't you
    understand that? It's your opinion vs. mine, but you seem to think you
    automatically are right and I, by default, must be wrong; therefore, I'm not
    allowed one. Most likely I've dealt with them allot more than you anyhow,
    so I think I'll continue to say what I want about them, ok?
    Speaking of hypocrites....... A winkie is not informative enough for you
    to get it? It was a joke, sheez.

    You're like the Energizer bunny......
  4. John Fields

    John Fields Guest

    IKYABWAI? In any case, utter nonsense.
    Not pleasure, satisfaction, and not denigration, retaliatory
    In addition to being rude, you're a fucking idiot, Fremont.

    My version would be, if I even though it was my place to stick my
    nose into his business, to say to the person, "Excuse me for asking,
    but do you think it's a good idea to leave all your cash laying on
    the front doorstep?", while yours would be to walk up to him and
    say, "You're stupid for leaving all your cash laying on the front

    Guess which version is going to be less likely to get one punched in
    the nose. Clue: It ain't yours.
    Well, you seem to know how to use the English language in a polite
    way, so when you become insulting it seems to me that it's more than
    likely not accidental,
    You should kiss my ass.
    No, you didn't what you were doing was pontificating.
    That's right. I felt it was rude and responded accordingly.
    No, that's not right. What I try to do is be non-offensive and
    helpful unless someone is offensive first, and then the gloves come
    off. It may seem to you like I'm offensive a lot, but that's only
    because you see a lot of posts from me directed at offensive people.

    Mostly Eeyore, Homer, and now you.
    Not at all true.

    Take Phil Allison for example. He's offensive on occasion but I
    don't get on his case because I know enough about him to understand
    that he's technically competent and can't stand to see incompetence
    and stupidity without commenting on it.

    If you're talking about yourself though, I know that you're
    narcissistic, self-absorbed, and smart enough to know when you're
    being offensive, so if that's how you want to play I can play that
    way too.
    Well, then, you must really have done something awful to be in the
    shit you're in now, huh?

    And an apology isn't enough for you? Eat shit and die, then,
    Tricky, Fremont. Saying either "yes" or "no" is tantamount to
    admitting to shameful behavior a la "Have you stopped beating your
    wife. Try again...
    You did.
    Never mind about Ed, I did look, and here's what I found:

    Too bad that he's such an offensive person. If he wasn't in
    everyone's killfile, more people might appreciate his efforts.
    Now tell me again who struck the first blow?
    You're allowed to say anything you want, but you need to realize
    that you're responsible for what you say, and if you offend people
    you're more than likely going to be taken to task for it.

    Blow me, Michael.
    Dumbass, If I like a song and you don't that doesn't make it a bad
    song, does it? Or don't you understand _that_?
    Funny, I thought it was just the other way around since I posted
    about how pleased I was with the way they handled my problem and you
    had to jump in all nasty about how stupid I was for thinking that
    and what a bunch of incompetent fools they really were. I'm
    paraphrasing, of course, but that was the gist of it.
    Say what you please for as long and as loud as you want, and it
    still won't change a thing.
  5. As if. You're such a friggin liar Fields, you really make me sick. You
    wouldn't have put it a tenth as nice as I did. I could sit and post links
    for the rest of my life showing how much crap your statement was.
    Fortunately, I don't need to because we all know it already.
    You should know by now.
    I certainly see plenty of offensive posts from you.
    Did you ever wonder why you're the pivot man? You bring this on yourself,
    when will you learn?
    You don't argue with him, because he won't/can't argue. That's the truth of
    it. He just goes into his silly repeat posting state and you know it.
    Too bad you have so much trouble keeping up, maybe you should stay in your
    own league from now on.

    I'm not in any bad position.
    And you wonder why I thought your little pittance of an apology fell short.
    As if that's not a true statement. You are offensive. Why should I pretend
    any different?
    Are any lights going on in your head yet???

    You do as you please, but I prefer to remain heterosexual.

    It doesn't make it good either, now does it?

    You're speaking from one experience with them, I'm speaking from years of
    it, who do you really think is in better position to judge?

    making them your heros, huh?
    I didn't put it like that, but I probably should have.

    Right back at ya.

    You know where you can put it then.

    No joke. Are you done yet, or do you want to trade some more insults?
  6. John Fields

    John Fields Guest

    Nope, I'd put it ten times nicer.
    No, you couldn't.

    I don't see the rest of your team, Tony-Wony...
    Yup. I've seen lots of arrogant assholes like you get their lights
    punched out for just that kind of shit.
    PKB, my ass, you phony piece of shit. When I'm being offensive I'm
    doing it with full knowledge of what I'm doing and with intent,
    while you whine about that when that "happens" to you it's
    accidental and that you didn't really mean it.

    Well, it's dirty job but someone's gotta keep you punks in line.
    'Cause I don't mind wrestling with pigs?
    There you go, pontificating again. When will you learn that no one
    gives a shit?

    Wrong again. Phil and I have gotten into it once or twice and he
    argues very well when he's not dealing with cretins. YMMV.

    LOL, so far you haven't seen anything but my ass.
    I _am_ in my own league.

    Not if you _like_ getting slapped around.
    So I should suck your dick, or something?
    You asked who struck the first blow this time. I think the answer
    is abundantly clear regardless of how much you squirm trying to get
    off the hook.

    I think you're not as bright as I might have given you credit for

    It does to me.
    Well, with that smug, know-it-all chip you carry around on your
    shoulder I'd be surprised if the majority of the problem you had
    with them wasn't at least partly your fault. So, you be the judge
    of yours and I'll be the judge of mine. So far I'm happy. Sorry
    you're not.

    Nope, just not making them the incompetent fools you claim they are.
    See, I know what goes in that little mind of yours.
  7. Well, I guess if you count that as a "blow", ok. Gee I'm sorry if I hurt
    your feelings, all better now?
  8. John Fields

    John Fields Guest

  9. That was pretty nasty, wasn't it?
    I thought you were done...

    You wouldn't want to miss out on criticizing my PIC code would you? Got my
    first version pretty much done, just gotta test it first. I wouldn't want
    to post something that didn't work. So far I've spent about 30 minutes on
    it, or about 1% of the time I've spent chatting it up with you. :-/ The
    hard part is going to be drawing up the schematic. I'm not sure what I'm
    going to draw it with, probably a pencil. ;-) How's your Moto code coming
  10. ehsjr

    ehsjr Guest

    All smoke screen. I said it in my first post, and I'll
    say it again: PIC's are great. You are incorrect in
    thinking I am a PIC hater.

    What is *not* great is those who come into a post here
    where someone asks for a solution and offer the "use
    a PIC" idea with *nothing* to show the solution. It
    is the lack of a genuine desire to help, coupled with
    the smug attitude that is wrong. It is also wrong
    to portray PICs as easy, simple or cheap to a PIC
    noobie. Like anything else, it's easy when you are
    already proficient. But to falsely give that impression
    to the noobie is a disservice.

  11. John Fields

    John Fields Guest

    I didn't think so, I was just pointing out a punctuation error you

    You do realize that the apostrophe there indicates a contraction,

    That is, after expansion, what you said was, "Like you, he cut is
    his nose off to spite his face.

    Does that make any sense to you?
  12. Duh. By nasty, I was referring to my stupid mistake.
    Now what do you think? Do you see me make this mistake often? I've done it
    in silly places like that before, oh well. I'll probably make further
    mistakes at some point, so I hope you won't feel the need to launch into a
    complete grammar lesson when they occur.
    Er, umm......I think we get it John.

    I suppose that's your prerogative.

    Your battery capacity calculations left a little to be desired as well.

    I still have to dig out my stuff (programmer, proto stuff, etc), hopefully
    I'll find time to post it today. Tinkering time is short when you have a 2
    year old.

    Seriously though John, I don't have anything against your technical skills
    or the way that you solve problems. I know you're good at what you do, even
    if I don't toss you an encomium every time we meet. I even take note of how
    helpful you are to so many people, believe it or not.

    I wish you could take it a little easier on folks and try not to curse quite
    so much, since kids and schools do use this medium. I know it's your right
    to do so, and I'm not trying to tell you how to live your life, but you seem
    to have an awful lot of advice for me on how to get along with folks by
    making nice. Why not take some of your own advice and lighten it up a bit?
    You should have been able to tell from Eric's response that you had made him
    feel small with your reply. You said that wasn't your intent, but that is
    precisely what happened. I'm not making another attack against you, I'm
    just hoping that you might want to consider this appeal.
  13. You seem to be a "PIC lover" hater. At least you seem to have a good
    stereotypical description of the "PIC crowd".
    How often does a poster come back and ask for the help using a PIC and not
    receive any? Looks to me like in most cases when an OP does bite at the PIC
    suggestion, a mini sub-thread often develops. The main thread goes on with
    the PIC/no-PIC battle and doesn't notice. The sub-thread usually helps the
    people wanting to try a micro, sometimes turning into a PIC/AVR battle, but

    AFAIK, I've always tried to help anyone asking ME for it. If I suggest to
    use a PIC then I will help them if they want it, I don't just say "use a
    PIC" and run away. I actively look for PIC questions and try to answer them
    specifically. It doesn't seem fair for you to arbitrarily assume me a
    member of the "PIC crowd".
    And there's nothing smug about your attitude here? I'm sorry, but I must
    disagree. Sounds like you are saying that all members of the "PIC crowd"
    are weasels, and I don't think that's fair at all.
    And the key phrase here is: "Like anything else". That includes all the
    rest of the things that one would need to know to be able to follow any of
    the advice given here. For example, soldering. ;-) They're still cheap,
    no matter what. A programmer costs less than an mediocre DMM and they
    certainly won't be doing any electronics work without a DMM now, will they?
  14. Rich Grise

    Rich Grise Guest

    Rube Goldberg?

    AD650 -> comparator -> LED. , page 6.

    It seems Digi-key has them for as little as $15.00 =:-O
    But you could shop around for "frequency to voltage converter".

    Comparator - LM311?
    I think it can sink enough to drive a(n) LED... Yeah - Vsat at 50 mA is
    ..75V typ.

  15. jasen

    jasen Guest

    looks like it. xxencoded starts the same but uses fewer "symbol"
    sounds like the gmail interface doesn't support uuencode.
    maybe using a MIME attachment would work better.

    This may require using software other than agent to send the emails.

  16. ehsjr

    ehsjr Guest

    You can use whatever label you want - I was
    stating a fact. But it does not matter. The
    issue is not about me. The issue is not about you.
    The issue is about behavior.

    It's not about the poster coming back and asking.
    It's about the repeated behavior of coming into
    a post, dropping the "PIC line" and offering nothing.
    That behavior does not exist for the "hardware crowd"
    to anything approaching the extent it exists for
    the "PIC crowd". What generally happens is that the
    "hardware crowd" posts one hell of a lot more than
    "use a 555" (or whatever). Many times a complete
    schematic, theory of ops, parts list and so forth
    is provided. Sometimes even prices from an identified
    supplier are posted. Whyinthehell can't the "PIC crowd"
    do the same thing? Their effort would be more in
    providing the code that will make the PIC perform
    the "magic" that the op wants, but the principle is
    the same. The PIC code is analogous to the hardware

    Show some references. Where are these posts here or on
    SED? I follow those newsgroups, and I don't see them.

    Where do you see me saying that you are a member of
    the "PIC crowd" or attributing that behaviour to you?
    I had assumed nothing of the kind - I didn't even
    address my post to you, until you replied to it.
    But whether you are or are not is not the issue. As I
    said before, it is the behaviour that is at issue.
    It's not about you and it's not about me.

    Most likely, there is, and there may be other things
    you dislike about my attitude here, too. My "smugness",
    if that's the right word, is that the "hardware crowd"
    offers orders of magnitude more help here and on SED
    than does the "PIC crowd" when they elect to participate
    and promote PICs. But what you are calling smug, I call
    the absolute and provable certainty that the "hardware
    crowd" has provided substance, not just a smug "use a
    555" (or whatever) to many many questions here and on SED.
    But set that aside, and stop trying to make this a you
    versus me issue, if that is what you are trying to do.
    It is not about you or me.
    I didn't try to label the "PIC crowd" as weasels,
    but the label is irrelevant. I described the
    behavior. What I'm talking about applies to
    those who exhibit that behaviour. Would you kindly
    show us references to some number of posts - say 10 -
    here and/or on SED where members of the "PIC crowd"
    offered a complete PIC solution, not just a reference
    to being able to do it with a PIC.

    He (the noobie) will be using a soldering iron
    and DMM with PICs or with harware solutions, so
    that comparison is disengenuous. And you totally
    ignore the books, kits, compiler and whatever else
    he will have as start up costs. And even if you
    ignore that and restrict his cost to the programmer
    and the PIC, he'll spend more for those than he will
    for the parts in JF's circuit.

    Now it is "put up" time. All you need to do, if
    you want to make your point, is show say 10 links
    to the helpful, substantive posts from the
    "PIC crowd" here and/or on SED. There is no other
    issue in my post.

  17. Speaking of smoke screens. It sure seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy to
    me. I guess if you spend enough time bashing the "PIC crowd", then enough
    of them will go away or keep quite in order for you to appear to be correct.

    CaptDondo and Jason von Nieman were one of the subthreads within this
    thread. Then when the OP mentioned an interest, John P and Petrus told him
    where to look. Looks to me like there's much more of a useful "PIC crowd"
    here than you imply, perhaps they often choose to remain quiet and avoid the

    You can say what you like about this, but everything I've seen from you so
    far shows that you seem to have a serious 'tude about this stuff. AIR, our
    first encounter was with you coming out of nowhere with the "oh gawd not
    another one" when I offered the PIC suggestion to someone. You might try
    painting the world with a less broad brush.

    BTW, assemblers, datasheets and other learning material are FREE, so is GCC.
    Outside of the programming equpment costs (and that can be avoided or kept
    very low if need be), time is the only issue. I would think that since we
    are mostly talking about hobbiests here, time is really not that much of an
    issue; procrastinating students asside.

    Of course you'll probably respond with something implying that the learning
    curve is steeper than that of brain surgery, and make it sound like one
    would have to go thru it every time they thought about using a PIC. But for
    my personal purposes, learning to use a micro was the most productive thing
    I've ever done in my electronics tinkerings, the benefits to me have been
    immeasurable. The time spent learning to use them was absolutely nothing
    compared to value of the return. And that's a real honest to God fact.

    I'm sure if I wasted enough time searching, I'd find your ten posts in all
    the years of Google USENET archive history. What exactly would that
    accomplish though? Would you stop with the PIC bashing, why
    bother. I pointed out four "helpful" responses in this thread alone. As
    for complete solutions, I posted one when we had our first meeting. ISTR,
    no positive comments from you then. At any rate, I bet it wouldn't be hard
    to find 10 "use a 555 posts" that went no further, we'll probably see that
    before the month is out.

    PS. I'm more a member of the "teach a man to fish" club. Sure it takes
    longer and requires more effort, but it's worth it. Obviously I have a
    'tude over this stuff too. I suspect it won't change much either. Anyhow,
    I've got a program I still need to test before posting, unless you'd rather
    see the code now? What exactly are you going to be "putting up" now that
    it's time? Perhaps you'd like to prove to us all that you're not a "PIC
    hater" and show us some code yourself? :)
  18. ehsjr

    ehsjr Guest

    You said: "CaptDondo and Jason von Nieman were one of the
    subthreads within this thread. Then when the OP mentioned
    an interest, John P and Petrus told him where to look.

    Unbelievable! You cite 4 references, 1 of which asks for
    a PIC starter kit, 2 of which speak against PICs for the
    solution, and one of which doesn't even refer to PIC's.
    (Quotes from their posts below.)

    It is pointless for us to continue. What you reference
    as supporting your viewpoint, doesn't. If you honestly
    see it that way (supporting your viewpoint), there's
    nothing I can say that will reach you.


    CaptDondo: "Does someone sell a pic-for-beginners
    kit?" (2/14 at 5:03 PM)

    Jason von Nieman: "When I was working with PICs (about 4
    years ago) they were a big pain in the butt. Programmers
    were complicated, there was no good, free C compiler and
    Internet resources were limited. Maybe the PIC scene has
    gotten better but AVRs just keep getting nicer and I see
    no reason to go back to using PICs." (2/14 at 6:11 PM)

    Petrus: "I fully agree with John that a electronic
    solution might be better in your situation. PICs *do*
    have a learning curve which is often underestimated by
    the "lovers". " (2/15/2007 2:56 PM)

    John P: "Take a look at the data sheet for the LM2907: "
    (2/15/2007 8:35 PM)
    That's *not* a PIC!
  19. That's right.
    And you consider Petrus' post as being supportive of your viewpoint? If so,
    there really is no point in continuing this discussion. I still want to see
    your solution though.
    Looks like the start of a subthread to me.
    So AVRs are different from PICs in the context of this debate? This is
    about micros, not PICs in specific.
    Where is the other 2/3 of the post that procede to supply helpful
    information on PICs/micros? How deceptive can you get, geez.
    You got me on that, I should have checked it out again before commenting on
    it. I still think two helpful posts within this thread easily make the case
    for being able to fine 10 in all of USENET history, don't you agree?

    I finally posted my schematic, "tested" code and HEX file. I'm really
    looking forward to your helpful solution.
  20. Mike C

    Mike C Guest

    Anthony, I'm using Google-Groups, where did you post the schematic &
    code ?

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