How many service techs?

[JW]

I know that service requests are on-demand, but if you were building a
department, how accounts do you think one Service Tech could handle?
Someone told me there was a "rule of thumb" one tech per _____ accounts.
Never heard of a standard like this and wondered if any of you have? What
do you think is feasible? The business has been around for decades and
services lots of older equipment. Thanks for any insights.

 

[Crash Gordon]

I guess it depends on how well you installed the system and taught the
clients how to use the system (you know those people with the glazed over
look standing by the keypad while you're trying to teach them).

One or two techs can handle 500+ accounts easy.


|I know that service requests are on-demand, but if you were building a
| department, how accounts do you think one Service Tech could handle?
| Someone told me there was a "rule of thumb" one tech per _____ accounts.
| Never heard of a standard like this and wondered if any of you have? What
| do you think is feasible? The business has been around for decades and
| services lots of older equipment. Thanks for any insights.
|
|

 

[Stanley Barthfarkle]

I know that service requests are on-demand, but if you were building a
department, how accounts do you think one Service Tech could handle?
Someone told me there was a "rule of thumb" one tech per _____ accounts.
Never heard of a standard like this and wondered if any of you have? What
do you think is feasible? The business has been around for decades and
services lots of older equipment. Thanks for any insights.

2 techs. (plus owner on-call for things like thunderstorms) should be able
to handle 1000-1500 well-installed accts.

 

[DA]

JW wrote:

I know that service requests are on-demand, but if you were building a
department, how accounts do you think one Service Tech could handle?
Someone told me there was a "rule of thumb" one tech per
_____ accounts.
Never heard of a standard like this and wondered if any of you have?
What
do you think is feasible? The business has been around for decades and

services lots of older equipment. Thanks for any insights.

It does not work this way. There are just too many variables such as how
far from the home base the locations are, how bright the techs are and so
on. You usually grow it by hiring one tech and then after you get into
situations where you'd want him to go to two places at the same time too
often you hire the second one.




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[Bill]

It depends on if you have at least one very bright service tech or not and
your company's service policies.

If you have one very knowledgeable service technician who understands
electronics like inductance (lightning, nearby radio stations to alarm,
shielding of alarm wiring in some situations, etc.), and human nature (what
people are doing which can trigger false alarms i.e. customers or customers
of business accounts), etc. And one who also will go to all ends to
investigate repeat false alarms and other problems. Then that service
technician will *fix* repeat problem accounts. So no additional service
calls are required. Need fewer service technicians with someone like this.

If however you have a bunch of ding dongs. They will go out and not fix the
root problem of these systems. So you have repeat service calls again and
again and again to the same accounts. Need more service technicians.

And if you have a company policy to fix repeat false alarm accounts no
matter what the cost, even eat the cost of repair if necessary, and give
full support and leeway to the bright service technician to fix the
problem - take as much time and materials as is necessary. Then repeat
problems will be solved once and for all and you will need fewer technicians
over time.


"JW" wrote in message

 

[tourman]

Yes, I agree. I know that with 1000 plus accounts, mostly all
residential, 75% installed by us, a staff of two has absolutely no
problem with same day (or next day or subsequent days with customer
permission) response for service. And when the second "tech" is not
servicing, he is installing ( we try to keep it down to two installs a
week maximum), while the first "tech" (me) does the office work. And we
both answer calls from clients as they come in to either of our cell
phones.

Now if you're doing heavy commercial, or industrial, I would have no
idea what ratio would be applicable. However, my guess would be many
more techs would be necessary.

Also, my experience is that "takeovers" (done by either "tech") seem to
dramatically increase service time required per account (a good reason
to inspect any and all takeovers beforehand and reject the "rejects" so
to speak...)....I turned away two today !!

Lately, I've come to sense another "rule of thumb". The work necessary
to keep two "bad" accounts going is the same as the work to keep 100
"good" accounts happy.

Definition: Good account....pays bills, doesn't needlessly trip his
alarm, keeps his account calling list current, reads his friggin manual
before he calls, gives you enough notice of door and window changes
necessary, doesn't bring animals into the home before he calls you, and
who has a system that was installed properly at the beginning by a
professional in the business

Bad account...the opposite of all of the above and likely a whole lot
of other reasons I haven't thought of..

RHC

 

[Crash Gordon]

Don't turn away the crappy takeovers if they are willing to:
Submit to credit check
Submit to IQ test
And are willing to pay to remodel the system.


| Yes, I agree. I know that with 1000 plus accounts, mostly all
| residential, 75% installed by us, a staff of two has absolutely no
| problem with same day (or next day or subsequent days with customer
| permission) response for service. And when the second "tech" is not
| servicing, he is installing ( we try to keep it down to two installs a
| week maximum), while the first "tech" (me) does the office work. And we
| both answer calls from clients as they come in to either of our cell
| phones.
|
| Now if you're doing heavy commercial, or industrial, I would have no
| idea what ratio would be applicable. However, my guess would be many
| more techs would be necessary.
|
| Also, my experience is that "takeovers" (done by either "tech") seem to
| dramatically increase service time required per account (a good reason
| to inspect any and all takeovers beforehand and reject the "rejects" so
| to speak...)....I turned away two today !!
|
| Lately, I've come to sense another "rule of thumb". The work necessary
| to keep two "bad" accounts going is the same as the work to keep 100
| "good" accounts happy.
|
| Definition: Good account....pays bills, doesn't needlessly trip his
| alarm, keeps his account calling list current, reads his friggin manual
| before he calls, gives you enough notice of door and window changes
| necessary, doesn't bring animals into the home before he calls you, and
| who has a system that was installed properly at the beginning by a
| professional in the business
|
| Bad account...the opposite of all of the above and likely a whole lot
| of other reasons I haven't thought of..
|
| RHC
|
| Stanley Barthfarkle wrote:
| > | > >I know that service requests are on-demand, but if you were building a
| > >department, how accounts do you think one Service Tech could handle?
| > >Someone told me there was a "rule of thumb" one tech per _____
accounts.
| > > Never heard of a standard like this and wondered if any of you have?
What
| > > do you think is feasible? The business has been around for decades
and
| > > services lots of older equipment. Thanks for any insights.
| >
| >
| >
| > 2 techs. (plus owner on-call for things like thunderstorms) should be
able
| > to handle 1000-1500 well-installed accts.
|

 

[Frank Olson]

Don't turn away the crappy takeovers if they are willing to:
Submit to credit check
Submit to IQ test
And are willing to pay to remodel the system.

You do credit checks??

 

[tourman]

Why would I need a credit check when I get all my money for the systems
up front ? And why would I want to spend any time at all to "remodel" a
crappy system, when I've got people virtually lined up for takeovers
who have perfectly good systems as is ? My son's time is better spent
installing new systems from scratch that I know will work properly.

No, frankly, I'd rather "cherry pick" the accounts I want to take
over....

IQ test ? Now that's a novel approach....should be mandatory....at
least to ensure they have the mental capacity to use the alarm
responsibly...

RHC

 

[Crash Gordon]

nah.


| Crash Gordon wrote:
| > Don't turn away the crappy takeovers if they are willing to:
| > Submit to credit check
| > Submit to IQ test
| > And are willing to pay to remodel the system.
|
|
| You do credit checks??

 

[Crash Gordon]

I don't do credit checks...that was just a funny.

I just did a 2750.00 "take-over"...why walk from money? Took me a couple of
days to sort it all out, but was well worth it. The system is now
topnotch...I made a few bucks and have a solid system and happy monitored
client.



| Why would I need a credit check when I get all my money for the systems
| up front ? And why would I want to spend any time at all to "remodel" a
| crappy system, when I've got people virtually lined up for takeovers
| who have perfectly good systems as is ? My son's time is better spent
| installing new systems from scratch that I know will work properly.
|
| No, frankly, I'd rather "cherry pick" the accounts I want to take
| over....
|
| IQ test ? Now that's a novel approach....should be mandatory....at
| least to ensure they have the mental capacity to use the alarm
| responsibly...
|
| RHC
|
| Crash Gordon wrote:
| > Don't turn away the crappy takeovers if they are willing to:
| > Submit to credit check
| > Submit to IQ test
| > And are willing to pay to remodel the system.
|

 

[tourman]

Your post leads me to believe something that I have suspected all
along. Full prices for systems in the US are considerably higher than
we charge or can get in Canada. I know that is a generalization, but
modifying a system for $2750 is about double what we can get for even a
large system hereabouts even starting from scatch. I doubt that even
ADT would charge those kinds of prices around here !

I'd take that one too because the work would be well worth it at that
pricing level.

RHC

 

[Jim]

Your post leads me to believe something that I have suspected all
along. Full prices for systems in the US are considerably higher than
we charge or can get in Canada. I know that is a generalization, but
modifying a system for $2750 is about double what we can get for even a
large system hereabouts even starting from scatch. I doubt that even
ADT would charge those kinds of prices around here !

I'd take that one too because the work would be well worth it at that
pricing level.

RHC

I'm finding that in recent years that more jobs are falling into the
$3000.00 and up range, just for security installs. Then, on top of
security there's the possibility that one or all of of the following
things will be added ..... like ..... telephone, Cat5 LAN wiring, CATV,
intercom telephone, whole house audio, and/or surround sound and
entertainment system layout, setup and programing. Right now I've got
one house (I have no idea what the house will be worth when it's
finished) with 73 windows and 10 doors. In addtion to security, I'm
doing all of the above. Total job $13,000.00 and there will be some
overruns. Customer buys all the enterainment and audio hardware
himself. Only equipment I supply is for security and possibly the whole
house audio speakers.

Another home that's in progress is a $3.5 million home ( pretty high
price for around here, but it's not as big as the one above...... only
52 windows and 5 doors) where the builders alarm that came with the
house, consisted of 5 door contacts, two PIR's, two keypads, one
speaker on first floor in a 10,000 sq ft home. The homeowner told them
not to install the panel and keypads. I'm adding detection on every
window ( both wired and wireless) Doorbell intercom, various CATV and
Cat5 LAN, telephone, whole house audio and surround sound and
entertainment set up. I didn't have to break drywall up to this point
but now they want the whole house audio speakers in the ceilings, so
I've got no choice but to "notch" to get around the headers, to get to
the ceiling bays. Security will total about $5000.00, the rest of the
job I'm pricing as I go. I figure it will land in the same price area
as the one above. It's a "smaller" house but since construction is
completed, there's lots more labor.

I have to say, however, if it wasn't for the fact that I've got a
sufficent number of accounts, at this stage, that these kind of jobs
don't do much to add to the equity of my company. These people don't
pay anymore per month for monitoring than someone with a $1000.00
system. But the challenge is super and the prestege of being chosen to
do these high end jobs, because of good referrals, is a great feeling.

 

[tourman]

I can definately see your point here. It's very satisfying to be good
at what you do and just as important, to be known to be good at what
you do. These days I get a lot of satisfaction when I hear clients say
they've heard good things about my service quality etc. Most people
only say the bad things and the good goes largely unsaid.

Early on, I did a number of the larger homes, but dollar for dollar, at
our acceptable rate structures around here, I found that it simply
wasn't worth the time to do them. A while ago, one of my customers came
to me with the plans for a 8000 square foot mansion he's building, and
asked me to quote the security system. To make a long story short,
after all was said and done, I turned the job down simply because for
what I would earn at the prices around here, the time and driving
involved for a full weeks work was simply spent better elsewhere. The
company that I recommended that did choose to do it, came in only
slightly higher than my quote, but they have a large staff and are
simply better able to do it than my company of two people. If I had
messed this up, or not given the level of service the client expected,
it would end up as a blight on my reputation.

Since that experience, I've learned to pick and choose the jobs
carefully. You can't be everything to everybody. Super large homes are
not in my market niche. Nor are commercial accounts.

There is also another side to this issue for me. Tax rates are such up
here that beyond a certain point, you end up virtually working for the
tax department rather than for yourself. I've backed off work because
of it to such an extent that I only do enough work to keep the company
running smoothly and pay my son's salary. With over 1000 accounts, the
monitoring revenue is such that one of my greatest challenges is to
keep Revenue Canada's greedy hands out of my pocket ! Once my son
takes on the business full time, he can decide how he wants to take it.
Me ? I'm going to take it easy and start to enjoy life more.....

RHC

 

[Crash Gordon]

This was a pretty big house, with a pretty big casita "guest" house. 8
keypads, 8 pirs, 14 glassbreaks, 4 partitions, 5amp aux power, 4 backup
batteries, driveway annunciator, I think it has 40 zones, AnyCell backup,
the original install was 6200.00 and that was almost 10 years ago. Had the
factory refurb the main board then replaced all 8 smokes, changed a few
keypads, totally redid all the zoning and expanders...blah blah blah.

My custom homes are going in at about 3100-6000 price range right now.
Custom specs are a tad lower. Then we got structured wiring, a/v, central
vac, intercom, and bada bing we're at 18K.

I don't compete with the lick&sticks or the big guys anymore, and I take
only jobs that are fun and I make money on...screw the rest.



| Your post leads me to believe something that I have suspected all
| along. Full prices for systems in the US are considerably higher than
| we charge or can get in Canada. I know that is a generalization, but
| modifying a system for $2750 is about double what we can get for even a
| large system hereabouts even starting from scatch. I doubt that even
| ADT would charge those kinds of prices around here !
|
| I'd take that one too because the work would be well worth it at that
| pricing level.
|
| RHC
|
| Crash Gordon wrote:
| > I don't do credit checks...that was just a funny.
| >
| > I just did a 2750.00 "take-over"...why walk from money? Took me a couple
of
| > days to sort it all out, but was well worth it. The system is now
| > topnotch...I made a few bucks and have a solid system and happy
monitored
| > client.
| >
| >
| >
| > | > | Why would I need a credit check when I get all my money for the
systems
| > | up front ? And why would I want to spend any time at all to "remodel"
a
| > | crappy system, when I've got people virtually lined up for takeovers
| > | who have perfectly good systems as is ? My son's time is better spent
| > | installing new systems from scratch that I know will work properly.
| > |
| > | No, frankly, I'd rather "cherry pick" the accounts I want to take
| > | over....
| > |
| > | IQ test ? Now that's a novel approach....should be mandatory....at
| > | least to ensure they have the mental capacity to use the alarm
| > | responsibly...
| > |
| > | RHC
| > |
| > | Crash Gordon wrote:
| > | > Don't turn away the crappy takeovers if they are willing to:
| > | > Submit to credit check
| > | > Submit to IQ test
| > | > And are willing to pay to remodel the system.
| > |
|

 

[Crash Gordon]

Right on the money dood.

I will sell the a/v stuff too though, but only stuff I can get a fair markup
on, otherwise I tell the buyer if they can get a better price go for it and
we'll just install it on T&M. Sheesh, what I make on connection cables is
more than I'd make on a DVD or A/V reciever!!




|
| tourman wrote:
| > Your post leads me to believe something that I have suspected all
| > along. Full prices for systems in the US are considerably higher than
| > we charge or can get in Canada. I know that is a generalization, but
| > modifying a system for $2750 is about double what we can get for even a
| > large system hereabouts even starting from scatch. I doubt that even
| > ADT would charge those kinds of prices around here !
| >
| > I'd take that one too because the work would be well worth it at that
| > pricing level.
| >
| > RHC
| >
|
| I'm finding that in recent years that more jobs are falling into the
| $3000.00 and up range, just for security installs. Then, on top of
| security there's the possibility that one or all of of the following
| things will be added ..... like ..... telephone, Cat5 LAN wiring, CATV,
| intercom telephone, whole house audio, and/or surround sound and
| entertainment system layout, setup and programing. Right now I've got
| one house (I have no idea what the house will be worth when it's
| finished) with 73 windows and 10 doors. In addtion to security, I'm
| doing all of the above. Total job $13,000.00 and there will be some
| overruns. Customer buys all the enterainment and audio hardware
| himself. Only equipment I supply is for security and possibly the whole
| house audio speakers.
|
| Another home that's in progress is a $3.5 million home ( pretty high
| price for around here, but it's not as big as the one above...... only
| 52 windows and 5 doors) where the builders alarm that came with the
| house, consisted of 5 door contacts, two PIR's, two keypads, one
| speaker on first floor in a 10,000 sq ft home. The homeowner told them
| not to install the panel and keypads. I'm adding detection on every
| window ( both wired and wireless) Doorbell intercom, various CATV and
| Cat5 LAN, telephone, whole house audio and surround sound and
| entertainment set up. I didn't have to break drywall up to this point
| but now they want the whole house audio speakers in the ceilings, so
| I've got no choice but to "notch" to get around the headers, to get to
| the ceiling bays. Security will total about $5000.00, the rest of the
| job I'm pricing as I go. I figure it will land in the same price area
| as the one above. It's a "smaller" house but since construction is
| completed, there's lots more labor.
|
| I have to say, however, if it wasn't for the fact that I've got a
| sufficent number of accounts, at this stage, that these kind of jobs
| don't do much to add to the equity of my company. These people don't
| pay anymore per month for monitoring than someone with a $1000.00
| system. But the challenge is super and the prestege of being chosen to
| do these high end jobs, because of good referrals, is a great feeling.
|

 

[Nomen Nescio]

Crash Gordon said:

My custom homes are going in at about 3100-6000 price range right now.
Custom specs are a tad lower. Then we got structured wiring, a/v, central
vac, intercom, and bada bing we're at 18K.

Different strokes, but I've never understood this. Why the hell would an
alarm company want to install a central vacuum system? Yeah, you can make
a couple bucks, but you could also make a couple bucks installing their
lawn sprinklers, changing burned-out light bulbs, and so on. The very last
service call I would ever want to see is a complaint that their vacuum
cleaner isn't working.

- badenov

 

[Crash Gordon]

Why? They're not that hard to install, they're a gimme since we're their low
voltage contractor...why walk away from a gimme? You want someone else to
get the vac...then they might get the other low voltage stuff too.

Service? I've got close to 400 central vacs out there and have had maybe
100(?) service calls over 20 years; far less in proportion to alarms. No
biggie, and we get paid. Oh, by the way, while you're here you may want to
have your alarm serviced or add that extra motion detector you've been
wanting?






| Crash Gordon said:
|
| >My custom homes are going in at about 3100-6000 price range right now.
| >Custom specs are a tad lower. Then we got structured wiring, a/v, central
| >vac, intercom, and bada bing we're at 18K.
|
| Different strokes, but I've never understood this. Why the hell would an
| alarm company want to install a central vacuum system? Yeah, you can make
| a couple bucks, but you could also make a couple bucks installing their
| lawn sprinklers, changing burned-out light bulbs, and so on. The very
last
| service call I would ever want to see is a complaint that their vacuum
| cleaner isn't working.
|
| - badenov
|

 

[Jim]

Crash Gordon said:


Different strokes, but I've never understood this. Why the hell would an
alarm company want to install a central vacuum system? Yeah, you can make
a couple bucks, but you could also make a couple bucks installing their
lawn sprinklers, changing burned-out light bulbs, and so on. The very last
service call I would ever want to see is a complaint that their vacuum
cleaner isn't working.

- badenov

That's part of the reason I don't do vacuums. ( service .... how the
hell would you ever be able to fix a bad tube connection?) But mostly,
I never wanted to deal with stocking, transporting and handling the
tubing and the accessories. Which, by the way, is somewhat the same
reason I don't supply the audio equipment for surround sound or whole
house audio either.

ONE... it's too available on the Internet ... sometimes at a lower
price than I can buy it for and TWO, ....... If something goes wrong
with it or if they don't like the "sound" of it .... or their brother
in law got one from Radio Shack for half the price and it sounds better
....... it's * their * problem. Last thing I want to be called back
for is because Opra's face looks pink.

 

[Crash Gordon]

yah those are all legit concerns...but never had anyone say it didn't sound
good.

finding a leak in central vacuum is pretty simple, same troubleshooting
techniques as alarm stuff..divide and conquer. I use a stethascope to listen
in the walls...but I tell ya...I've done around 400 and have only had pipes
get separated a couple of times, usually from AC guys crawling in the attic.
So ya ask questions of the homeowner and go from there - and never had one I
couldn't fix.

I did just recently have a housemaid sabotage the central vacuum...because
she didn't like/understand it..so she kept breaking or losing parts to the
electric head...and I think she intentionally ran over the vac hose with her
car and crushed it.

On the audio stuff, yep...if it;s cheaper on the net I tell them to buy it
and have it delivered and we install by the hour. No biggie. If there's a
problem we'll go (by the hour) and disconnect it, but the buyer will have to
deal with returning it themselves, when they get it back we'll go back out
(by the hour) and hook it back up. Ain't much profit in the equipment,
except for high end AV and Plasmas/DLPs though.

The only pain in the butt is keeping up with model changes and how the crap
gets hooked up ( I HATE that part, so I leave it to my other guys to deal
with that).


|
| Nomen Nescio wrote:
| > Crash Gordon said:
| >
| > >My custom homes are going in at about 3100-6000 price range right now.
| > >Custom specs are a tad lower. Then we got structured wiring, a/v,
central
| > >vac, intercom, and bada bing we're at 18K.
| >
| > Different strokes, but I've never understood this. Why the hell would
an
| > alarm company want to install a central vacuum system? Yeah, you can
make
| > a couple bucks, but you could also make a couple bucks installing their
| > lawn sprinklers, changing burned-out light bulbs, and so on. The very
last
| > service call I would ever want to see is a complaint that their vacuum
| > cleaner isn't working.
| >
| > - badenov
|
| That's part of the reason I don't do vacuums. ( service .... how the
| hell would you ever be able to fix a bad tube connection?) But mostly,
| I never wanted to deal with stocking, transporting and handling the
| tubing and the accessories. Which, by the way, is somewhat the same
| reason I don't supply the audio equipment for surround sound or whole
| house audio either.
|
| ONE... it's too available on the Internet ... sometimes at a lower
| price than I can buy it for and TWO, ....... If something goes wrong
| with it or if they don't like the "sound" of it .... or their brother
| in law got one from Radio Shack for half the price and it sounds better
| ...... it's * their * problem. Last thing I want to be called back
| for is because Opra's face looks pink.
|