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How is building bombs related to this group?

Discussion in 'Electronic Basics' started by Chesucat, Oct 1, 2003.

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  1. To Americans terrorism seems only to have started afer 11th September
    2001,which did not use improvised explosive devices, despite people like
    Timothy McVeigh , or the UnaBomber.These people are unlikely to have asked
    on a newsgroup for advice on construction.

    Living in the U.K gives me a different perspective on terrorism perhaps.For
    many years we lived in the shadow of Irish terrorism, kept funded in part by
    donations from residents in the U.S. I was a motorcycle courier collecting
    news footage from Lockerbie in the immediate aftermath of the Pan Am
    explosion.

    One must always guard against erosion of freedom, this is as true now, as it
    was when Mr Franklin was about.
    There never has been freedom for terrorist to act with impunity, but it does
    not stop the terrorists. Guantanamo Bay is possibly an example of a slippery
    slope, that represents sacrifice of freedom against a claim of increased
    security.
    dubious.

    Think I mentioned pyrotechnics which have been providing entertainment since
    before Christ.
    Sure that some of those responsible for landing man on the moon and
    launching satellites had their interest stimulated by energetic reactions
    when they were young.

    Explosives are an essential part of demolition , quarrying and even
    manufacture.This is ignoring the huge investment by the military in
    explosive development.

    It is to be regretted that you have a very narrow view of what valid science
    is.
    Experimenting with explosives is a good way to move yourself up the league
    table for receiving a Darwin Award....

    Adam
     
  2. Baphomet

    Baphomet Guest

    SNIP...SNIP...SNIP...
    Without getting unnecessarily political (only because this is an
    inappropriate newsgroup for such) I was the one who made the original
    reference to Homeland Security in this thread...and it was done in jest and
    followed with the obligatory :)

    Ben Franklin, great thinker that he was and with this particular platitude
    notwithstanding, didn't live in a post 9-11 era. What freedoms have been
    sacrificed? save the freedom to commit terrorist acts with impunity.

    There has been a great deal of equivocation in this thread about "bomb
    building", chemistry sets, rocketry and education. That is pure bull. I
    can't think of one positive reason for bomb building unless one has
    aspirations of becoming a demolition expert, and even that goal is dubious.
    Perhaps I shouldn't have said anything and let Tom Rastell, the sociopath in
    training, blow his damn fool head off.
     
  3. John Fields

    John Fields Guest

     
  4. Baphomet

    Baphomet Guest


    Absolutely true. Terrorisim is a new phenomena for Americans and quite
    frankly, scares the hell out of us.


    I unequivocably agree yet again. The price of freedom is eternal vigilence.
    Don't know whose freedoms (save suspected terrorists) are being sacrificed
    by Guantanamo though.


    I guess the I.R.A. were really scientists in training :)


    posthumously no doubt
     
  5. Garrett Mace

    Garrett Mace Guest

    It worked beautifully, went up until we lost sight of it and, presumably,

    Obviously NORAD was tracking it; I wonder if you ever asked those guys
    nicely, you could get the report of that incident and find out just how high
    it went! (and maybe about where it landed--or was retrieved)
     
  6. How do you define 'vigilence' and what limits do you consider it to have?
    What Stalin did was just as well 'vigilence' if one extends the limits wide
    enough. I doubt, you would like to live in the mentioned area at that time,
    even after 1945. An oversized 'vigilance' over a so-called communist threat
    has successfully provided the world with atrocities of wars in Vietnam,
    Korea (with the conflict being still far from over) and has cost many
    millions of lives of innocent people. Compared to this, the 11th September
    was just a drop of water in an endless sea and could well be forgotten. It
    is only so well-known and feared because it struck an area widely visible
    to the general public and of course because certain well-positioned teaders
    do their best to intimidate vast sections of the people. Than, whom would
    you like to see as a suspected terrorist? Only a couple of men within the
    IRA (or UDA respectively)? A larger number of men who happen to have
    behaved strangely in an occupated region (Northern Ireland, Palestine, Iraq
    and some 10 more convenient places), something that is often explicable on
    behalf of the situation (how would you behave if <wherever_you_live> was
    occupied by foreign forces with no intent to leave)? An even larger number
    of men who do not respect their governments entirely and trust them
    whole-heartedly (including me for this writing)? The last plus everyone who
    has non-trivial knowledge of the construction of explosive devices (many)?
    Everyone who can recognize from the non-zero reading of a DC voltmeter,
    which of the 2 wires is '+' and which one is '-' (surely including us)?
    Everyone who happens to live in a not USA-friendly country? Finally, all of
    us? One can suspect everyone of everything as long as nothing can be
    proved. Well, who is than to be put into Guantanamo Bay facing conditions
    equalling to torture for years withour a trial? If you don't believe this,
    any survivor released due to 'lack of evidence' will be able (but not
    allowed and threatened not to) to confirm it. He will probably be able to
    tell things that shall put any real terrorist to shame let alone the
    less-hardened people like most of us are. There were regimes in known
    history that had established police states of vast extents. Some minor ones
    still exist and we are far from being able to guarantee that the USA will
    not pick up this behaviour. During the last years, this indeed appears not
    very unlikely, especially since Bush has made the 'arms race logic' his own
    and certain other governments are preparing to answer in a convenient way.
    I don't know who wants another Cold War, but I do not. I do not appreciate
    any terrorism including the famous war against it, neither do I apperciate
    any uses of explosives other than the industrial and some other legitimate
    ones. After all, I agree with Franklin just as I disagree with Bush and
    what concerns the home-making of explosives and explosive devices, I do not
    encourage anyone to do this, especially those of my age (20) and below.

    Sorry for the OT post.

    Dimitrij
     
  7. You will understand it when you are in a prison like that without any
    rights, but then it is too late.
     
  8. -----------------
    Nonsense. Some would always wish us to do nothing for fear of doing
    the wrong thing, but they pretend that the Good and the Right is not
    obvious, which it is, and that those who do Evil are not merely LYING
    and that actually they don't secretly know better, when their prior
    knowledge of their evil deeds as they did them it is fully evidenced
    by their whining shame and weaseling guilty shrieking when they are
    being tortured to death! Bullies always apologize and forswear their
    evil acts like crazy while being beaten, and those who have done
    nothing wrong say no such thing. Humans have an inborn morality based
    on their potential genetic social nature, which has been fulfilled in
    their upbringing as humans, and those who have been raised by monsters
    STILL know that when they were beaten unfairly, and abused viciously,
    that it was wrong, and when they do the same to others, it is STILL
    wrong.

    The rich powerful bullies of the world, when caught and punished with
    torture, will invariably whine and cry for their dreadful mistakes that
    they imagined they would get away with, but they will only whine when
    they don't!! We need to make examples of them, so others will NOT
    imagine they can get away with the abuse of others! Those who pretend
    that we "might do wrong" have merely been brainwashed by these Evil
    Ones, so to provide a refuge for them when they try to run and hide at
    the last, before we catch them and torture them.

    -Steve
     
  9. Ferking heck, get back to electronics eventually....

    Word for today is "suspected" as in suspicion and suspect.

    What the so called civilised world prides itself on and looks down on others
    for is justice. The mainstay of that is a `suspect` is innocent until
    proven guilty unlike some systems where innocence must be proven.

    What one may expect and what one receives can be two totally different
    things.

    Adam
     
  10. Baphomet

    Baphomet Guest


    Well, since I am not a terrorist and have no aspirations or sympathies
    toward same, I wouldn't expect that I would find myself in that situation.
     
  11. Baphomet

    Baphomet Guest


    Ah Dimitrij, you have asked the $64,000 question and I'm not sure I am the
    most appropriate person to provide that answer...but since that never
    stopped me
    before, here goes.


    True, but in any reasoned discussion, it is crucial to define terms and
    limits before the fact, not after. I also categorically reject any
    comparisons between the Stalinist Regime and the Bush Administration vis a
    vis Guantanomo. Have you no sense of proportion?


    I doubt, you would like to live in the mentioned area at that

    The only way that Vietnam makes any sense at all (I was there and it just
    goes to show how crazy the human species really is) is to put an
    anthropomorphic overlay over the situation. The U.S. was defending the honor
    of its bitch, France, after being humiliated in Dien Bien Phu in 1954. From
    Americas point of view, it certainly wasn't about resources and probably had
    little to do with the containment of communism.


    From a global perspective, a drop in the bucket perhaps. Locally, a cause
    celebrè for a forceful and justifiable response. In spite of America's short
    attention span, I doubt it will be soon forgotten by us, nor should it be.


    My preference would be for terrorists not to exist at all; this might
    include, but not necessarily be limited to, eliminating the root causes of
    terrorism (hopelessness, gross inequity, poverty, tribalism, religious
    fanaticisim, ignorance etc.)


    Only a couple of men within the

    It would piss me off, and I believe that is what the American Revolutionary
    War was all about...but let's not confuse traditional warfare with
    terrorism. While innocents invariably get killed in warfare as an
    unfortunate byproduct (euphemistically called collateral damage), terrorists
    deliberately target innocents for slaughter.


    And every other intelligent and thinking person; eternal vigilance flows
    both ways ;-)


    minor snip for clarity........................................


    S'il ressemble à un canard, marche comme un canard, et parle comme un
    canard, c'est probablement un canard. When members of the Taliban were
    rounded up with weapons in terrorist training camps, or hiding in caves, I
    think it's fair to say that they weren't merely innocent bystanders.
    Confinement in Guantanamo is hardly tantamount to torture although if it
    were up to me, it just might be.


    "Those who forget the lessons of history are doomed to repeat its
    failures" - Santayana
    Unfortunately and given that we are human with all of its attendant
    imperfections, those that remember those lessons will probably repeat the
    same old mistakes anyway.
     
  12. Baphomet

    Baphomet Guest


    Adam...you are correct. Fascinating though this topic and its responses may
    be (and the genesis of the original post was "How do I build a bomb" or
    something similar, it's time to get get back to electronics biz.
     
  13. The history of death penalty shows that you are wrong
     
  14. Regarding my country's history I find lots of people who found
    themselves behind walls and electric fences without expecting that
    with their I. WW medals.
     
  15. -----------------------------
    Murderers are irrational. They kill out of passion, and deterrence
    does nothing against them, it even attracts psychopaths to copy it.

    But making examples of calculated corporate, political, and economic
    criminals and thieves does indeed deter those crimes. Torturing them
    at half time at sporting events makes the point quite poignantly!

    -Steve
     
  16. And there you could be badly mistaken. Like that taxi driver from
    Kandahar who, for reasons never explained, got arrested by US troops as
    a suspected terrorist. Got transported to Kuba, held there for several
    months, rudely interrogated and was finally released. No explanation, no
    appology and certainly no compensation.

    Thats what happens if power is not held in check by law and proper
    procedure.
     
  17. Baphomet

    Baphomet Guest

    Well, I guess to every rule lives the exception...so I guess it amounts to
    statistical probability. One exception (or even several) doesn't necessarily
    negate a sound policy; suffice it to say, none of us would want to be that
    exception.
     
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