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How can such a small device -- a wrist watch -- receive such long-wave radio signals?

R

Radium

Jan 1, 1970
0
Yes, but the original derranged rantings required that *AUDIO* be
used. This was suppose to be some kind of replacement for cellular.
None of the long wave time standards belch audio like the short wave
WWV stations.

However, these time code transmitters operate at RF frequencies as low
as 20KHz (mostly in Russia). See:


Touche and good question. Most of the desktop variety have a ferrite
rod loaded with lots of fine wire. I have several like this, one with
an external rod. However, that's obviously not going to work in a
wristwatch unit. I don't have any idea what's inside or how the
antenna done, but I can guess(tm). Here's one way:
<http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/atomic-bill/>

The question has been asked before:
<http://www.eham.net/forums/Elmers/148090>
However, no real description of what's inside the wristwatch.

Going to the source:
<http://tf.nist.gov/stations/radioclocks.htm>
NIST Recommended Practices for WWVB receivers.
<http://tf.nist.gov/general/pdf/1976.pdf> (See section 8A)
"We recommend that RCC products should be sensitive enough
to successfully synchronize to signals from WWVB with a field
strength of 50 uV/m, if the signal to noise ratio exceeds 20 dB.
The RF bandwidth of the receiver should be narrow, typically
=B110 Hz or less."
and:
"Wristwatch antennas should not be contained in the band,
so that RCC watch bands can be replaced in the same manner
as the bands of ordinary watches when they are damaged or
worn out."

So much for the antenna in the wrist band idea. So, the question is,
what type of tiny antenna will work with such a field strength at
60KHz. I dug through the FCC ID web pile looking for an inside photo
of Casio watch, but couldn't find anything. I'm gonna have to either
break one open, and/or calculate the field strength of a very small
ferrite rod antenna (later).

--
Jeff Liebermann [email protected]
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Sorry, I am now extremely interested and frustrated about how the
wristwatch can be so tiny yet receive so long-wave signals.

Just how does such a magical device work? It seems to defy laws of
science that such a small device can operate at such long-wavelengths
of radio waves.

I suspect it's probably something those FBI/CIA bastards are going to
keep secret from us.

Sick government f---scums. USA citizens should turn against the FBI/
CIA and molest the f---ing s--- out of their colons using bubbas' c--
ks.

I want to know how such a tiny device can operate at such a long
wavelength. Unfortunately, that info is classified by the FBI/CIA, and
then won't let me or any USA citizen find out about it.

I am getting so pissed off right now.

I am so interested in this wristwatch question yet I am so angry about
it because the FBI/CIA won't let me know about it.

F--k the CIA/FBI, may they be raped by big bubbas.

No offense but please respond with reasonable answers & keep out the
jokes, off-topic nonsense, taunts, insults, and trivializations. I am
really interested in this.
 
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Radium said:
Sorry, I am now extremely interested and frustrated about how the
wristwatch can be so tiny yet receive so long-wave signals.
Just how does such a magical device work? It seems to defy laws of
science that such a small device can operate at such long-wavelengths
of radio waves.

Have you ever seen a portable AM radio, e.g. a Walkman?

<snip remaining idiocy>

Idiot troll.
 
Sorry, I am now extremely interested and frustrated about how the
wristwatch can be so tiny yet receive so long-wave signals.

Just how does such a magical device work? It seems to defy laws of
science that such a small device can operate at such long-wavelengths
of radio waves.

I suspect it's probably something those FBI/CIA bastards are going to
keep secret from us.

Sick government f---scums. USA citizens should turn against the FBI/
CIA and molest the f---ing s--- out of their colons using bubbas' c--
ks.

I want to know how such a tiny device can operate at such a long
wavelength. Unfortunately, that info is classified by the FBI/CIA, and
then won't let me or any USA citizen find out about it.

I am getting so pissed off right now.

I am so interested in this wristwatch question yet I am so angry about
it because the FBI/CIA won't let me know about it.

F--k the CIA/FBI, may they be raped by big bubbas.

No offense but please respond with reasonable answers & keep out the
jokes, off-topic nonsense, taunts, insults, and trivializations. I am
really interested in this.

Normally they can coil the aerial inside the device either as a real
coil or on an IC. This takes a lot of space however.
 
D

Dave Platt

Jan 1, 1970
0
Sorry, I am now extremely interested and frustrated about how the
wristwatch can be so tiny yet receive so long-wave signals.

Just how does such a magical device work? It seems to defy laws of
science that such a small device can operate at such long-wavelengths
of radio waves.

I suspect it's probably something those FBI/CIA bastards are going to
keep secret from us.... >>SNIP<<

$DEITY, man, get a grip on yourself, OK? This is *old* technology - a
similar method has been used in AM radios for decades, dating to back
before the transistor was invented. There is nothing at all tricky,
or hidden/concealed about it.
No offense but please respond with reasonable answers & keep out the
jokes, off-topic nonsense, taunts, insults, and trivializations. I am
really interested in this.

So, go "back to the source" just as the previous poster did.

A quick Google on the phrase "wwv watch antenna ferrite" turns up, as
its very first alternative, the following:

http://tf.nist.gov/general/pdf/1877.pdf

which is a very nice overview of radio controlled clocks, courtesy of
the United States Government (specifically, the National Institute of
Standards and Technology).

On Page 11 you'll see a clear photo of the sort of antenna used in a
WWVB-capable desk clock. It's a standard ferrite loop antenna.

On the following page you'll see a photo of the innards of a
WWVB-capable watch. It has a similar (although smaller)
ferrite-loaded loop antenna.

If you go to http://www.mas-oy.com/data/MAS_docu_AR.htm you'll find
the web site (with data sheets) for WWVB receiver chips. Download the
MAS9180 data sheet. You'll see schematics, which show how a
ferrite-loaded antenna is combined with a capacitor, creating a
resonant circuit tuned to the 60 kHz (or whatever) radio signal.

The trick is fundamentally no different that the one used in an
ordinary battery-powered AM broadcast radio, which (in the older
designs) uses a ferrite-core multi-turn loop antenna, tuned to
resonate at AM broadcast frequencies using a variable capacitor
(typically a 365 pF maximum). The WWVB frequency is about 10% that of
signals at the low end of the AM broadcast band, so it's necessary to
use a larger-value capacitor to tune any given amount of ferrite
antenna inductance to the desired frequency, but it's the same method.

As to how it works... well, think of it this way (and this is just an
approximation). The high magnetic permeability of the ferrite acts as
a sort of "concentrator", so that more of the transmitted EM field
flows through the antenna than would be the case if the antenna had an
air or plastic core. And, the large number of turns of wire on the
antenna both increases the amount of signal produced by the EM field,
and adds enough inductance that it's possible to tune the antenna to
resonance with a reasonable-sized capacitor.

Google on "small loop antennas" for more background.
 
$DEITY, man, get a grip on yourself, OK? This is *old* technology - a
similar method has been used in AM radios for decades, dating to back
before the transistor was invented. There is nothing at all tricky,
or hidden/concealed about it.


So, go "back to the source" just as the previous poster did.

A quick Google on the phrase "wwv watch antenna ferrite" turns up, as
its very first alternative, the following:

http://tf.nist.gov/general/pdf/1877.pdf

which is a very nice overview of radio controlled clocks, courtesy of
the United States Government (specifically, the National Institute of
Standards and Technology).

On Page 11 you'll see a clear photo of the sort of antenna used in a
WWVB-capable desk clock. It's a standard ferrite loop antenna.

On the following page you'll see a photo of the innards of a
WWVB-capable watch. It has a similar (although smaller)
ferrite-loaded loop antenna.

If you go tohttp://www.mas-oy.com/data/MAS_docu_AR.htmyou'll find
the web site (with data sheets) for WWVB receiver chips. Download the
MAS9180 data sheet. You'll see schematics, which show how a
ferrite-loaded antenna is combined with a capacitor, creating a
resonant circuit tuned to the 60 kHz (or whatever) radio signal.

The trick is fundamentally no different that the one used in an
ordinary battery-powered AM broadcast radio, which (in the older
designs) uses a ferrite-core multi-turn loop antenna, tuned to
resonate at AM broadcast frequencies using a variable capacitor
(typically a 365 pF maximum). The WWVB frequency is about 10% that of
signals at the low end of the AM broadcast band, so it's necessary to
use a larger-value capacitor to tune any given amount of ferrite
antenna inductance to the desired frequency, but it's the same method.

As to how it works... well, think of it this way (and this is just an
approximation). The high magnetic permeability of the ferrite acts as
a sort of "concentrator", so that more of the transmitted EM field
flows through the antenna than would be the case if the antenna had an
air or plastic core. And, the large number of turns of wire on the
antenna both increases the amount of signal produced by the EM field,
and adds enough inductance that it's possible to tune the antenna to
resonance with a reasonable-sized capacitor.

Google on "small loop antennas" for more background.

--
Dave Platt <[email protected]> AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~jcgl/Scots_Guide/RadCom/part7/page5.html
 
P

Paul Cardinale

Jan 1, 1970
0
Radium wrote:

[snip]
Sorry, I am now extremely interested and frustrated about how the
wristwatch can be so tiny yet receive so long-wave signals.

Just how does such a magical device work? It seems to defy laws of
science that such a small device can operate at such long-wavelengths
of radio waves.

I suspect it's probably something those FBI/CIA bastards are going to
keep secret from us.

If you weren't a babbling imbecile you would realize that the fact
that you can buy a wristwatch with a LW receiver in it means that the
technology is not classified (or do you harbor the delusion that the
FBI/CIA [sic] makes the watches?)

Paul Cardinale
 
R

Radium

Jan 1, 1970
0
If you weren't a babbling imbecile you would realize that the fact
that you can buy a wristwatch with a LW receiver in it means that the
technology is not classified (or do you harbor the delusion that the
FBI/CIA [sic] makes the watches?)

In the thread where I talk about analog cell phones using AM radio
between 40 KHz - 285Khz, responders told me that it is impractical
because the receiver would need to be too big to be portable.

Then the topic of how wrist-watches can receiver long-wave while still
being so small began.
From the links and from what the responders said -- in that thread, it
seemed that there just wasn't any explanation as to how wrist-watches
could operate in long-wave.

Usually with weird gadgetry like this, I tend to believe someone [or a
lot of someones] is/are attempting to cover up a new type of
technology that somehow exists and functions despite defying
conventional laws of science.

I then get extremely curious, jealous, and angry and want to forcibly
get information as to how it is possible for that device to work. I
want to torture the designers -- who I believe are the CIA/FBI -- into
providing me the information. Its only human nature to be interested
in things that seem too good to be true yet are still possible and
existing with full functionality.

I start to believe only the CIA/FBI could be doing something like this
because they are the smartest and most evil bastards in the universe.
Cold-hearted CIA f-kfoams.

I get the feeling that the exploitative sadistic CIA/FBI know about
science that ordinary USA citizens are not allowed to know about.

I then want the CIA/FBI to suffer for what I perceive as their
"stinginess".

Anyways...

So I guess it is possible to have analog AM cell phones operating
between 40 KHz and 285 KHz that are the same small size as today's
cell phones. Right? If it's not possible then why not? If a wrist
watch can do it, then why not a cell phone?
 
D

DTC

Jan 1, 1970
0
Radium said:
So I guess it is possible to have analog AM cell phones operating
between 40 KHz and 285 KHz that are the same small size as today's
cell phones. Right? If it's not possible then why not? If a wrist
watch can do it, then why not a cell phone?

If a wrist watch can to what? Transmit a signal? They don't, they only
receive.
 
D

DTC

Jan 1, 1970
0
Radium said:
So I guess it is possible to have analog AM cell phones operating
between 40 KHz and 285 KHz that are the same small size as today's
cell phones. Right? If it's not possible then why not? If a wrist
watch can do it, then why not a cell phone?

Actually, this thread or logic reminds me of a redneck wanting me to
connect his 40 watt car stereo amplifier to his CB radio 30 years ago.
 
So I guess it is possible to have analog AM cell phones operating
between 40 KHz and 285 KHz that are the same small size as today's
cell phones. Right? If it's not possible then why not? If a wrist
watch can do it, then why not a cell phone?

Bandwidth, you babbling idiot.
 
J

Jim - NN7K

Jan 1, 1970
0
Actually, most likely, the reason these work, is
because you (and most people) live under the
Biggest Long-Wave Antenna around (Power lines,
telephone cables, TV cables, ect)! And, those
that doubt, tell me the range with a lousy
antenna, that Jim Creek, and Ect. can be copied!
this is around 18 KHz ! Corse, doent hurt
to have a massive antenna, and beaucoup power
! BTW, THAT signal is also used to sync
generators on the Power Grid (wonder what
would happen in a power co got even 1%
out of phase? Answer: Meltdown! Jim NN7K
 
J

Jeff Liebermann

Jan 1, 1970
0
Radium said:
Sorry, I am now extremely interested and frustrated about how the
wristwatch can be so tiny yet receive so long-wave signals.

Oh, miniaturization is easy. I prefer the laundry method. Throw the
laundry into the washer, add boiling water, and everything shrinks. Do
it often enough and your clothes become miniaturized. It's the same
way with electronics. Boil the watch in water and it will shrink.
Try it.

You can also manipulate the waves. Long waves are nothing more than
short waves, that have been passed through a medium that slows them
down (e.g. slow glass). Slow down the short waves enough, and they
become long waves. So, the WWVB watch is really working with
stretched short waves.

There are other methods of component and size reduction. For example,
simply leaving the watch in an exposed location will often make it
disappear completely, the ultimate form of miniaturization.
Just how does such a magical device work?

It works quite well. If it didn't, there's always the limited
warranty.
It seems to defy laws of
science that such a small device can operate at such long-wavelengths
of radio waves.

Yeah, that's a problem. Breaking the laws of science is quite common
and generally accepted. Just watch any action movie and see how many
physical laws are broken. If you defy a huge number of physical laws,
it's called science fiction. The problem is that there is no physics
police to enforce the laws and apply appropriate penalties to the
violators. The last time that was tried was during the Inquisition.
It failed. I wouldn't worry about defying the laws of science as it's
unlikely that you'll serve any time or pay any fines.
I suspect it's probably something those FBI/CIA bastards are going to
keep secret from us.

It's secret for your own safety and welfare. Were you to be properly
educated, informed, and receive a diploma at public expense, I suspect
the required effort and cost would bankrupt the country. Therefore,
keeping you ignorant is economically justifiable. Try not to take it
personally.
I want to know how such a tiny device can operate at such a long
wavelength. Unfortunately, that info is classified by the FBI/CIA, and
then won't let me or any USA citizen find out about it.

Well, I guess it's safe to tell you. Please don't redistribute the
arcane knowledge to the GUM (great unwashed masses).

The WWVB watch is not really miniaturized. The greater bulk of the
circuitry is hidden in another dimension. String theory postulates 10
or 11 dimensions, so there are plenty of spare places (branes) to hide
bulky and awkward circuitry. What you're carrying on your wrist is
only a small part of the receiver, as the rest is invisible. I hope
this helps.
I am getting so pissed off right now.

Off? I don't think it would help if you tried getting pissed on.
I am so interested in this wristwatch question yet I am so angry about
it because the FBI/CIA won't let me know about it.

Yeah, that's a problem when the government controls your brane.
 
C

Christopher Cox

Jan 1, 1970
0
I start to believe only the CIA/FBI could be doing something like this
because they are the smartest and most evil bastards in the universe.
Cold-hearted CIA f-kfoams.

I get the feeling that the exploitative sadistic CIA/FBI know about
science that ordinary USA citizens are not allowed to know about.

I then want the CIA/FBI to suffer for what I perceive as their
"stinginess".

Anyways...

So I guess it is possible to have analog AM cell phones operating
between 40 KHz and 285 KHz that are the same small size as today's
cell phones. Right? If it's not possible then why not? If a wrist
watch can do it, then why not a cell phone?

All this for 245kHz of band space in a frequency area of high noise and
long propagation paths.

Engineering would dictate looking elsewhere.

But hey, you want to try, go ahead. I believe there are allocations in
the above spectrum for transmitting a couple watts into a antenna less
than three feet long. I would think a wrist watch transmitter would qualify.

Google up VLF, melt some solder, and let us know how you do.

Chris
 
E

Eric

Jan 1, 1970
0
WWVB stands for W's World Vengeance Bureau

Giving, so-called, accurate time is a trick to get people to wear WWVB
watches and have WWVB clocks in their homes.

They are actually AMPLIFIERS and REPEATERS! They amplify and repeat the
hidden embedded mind-control signal that originates from Bush's Hurricane
and Earthquake Machine.
 
B

Bill Kearney

Jan 1, 1970
0
No offense but please respond with reasonable answers & keep out the
jokes, off-topic nonsense, taunts, insults, and trivializations. I am
really interested in this.

Then leave out the conspiracy garbage, idiot. Or you'll get the probing...
again.
 
D

DTC

Jan 1, 1970
0
Eric said:
WWVB stands for W's World Vengeance Bureau

Giving, so-called, accurate time is a trick to get people to wear WWVB
watches and have WWVB clocks in their homes.

They are actually AMPLIFIERS and REPEATERS! They amplify and repeat the
hidden embedded mind-control signal that originates from Bush's Hurricane
and Earthquake Machine.

And proof can be found in the movie, "The President's Analyst"
 
J

Jeff Liebermann

Jan 1, 1970
0
WWVB stands for W's World Vengeance Bureau

Giving, so-called, accurate time is a trick to get people to wear WWVB
watches and have WWVB clocks in their homes.

They are actually AMPLIFIERS and REPEATERS! They amplify and repeat the
hidden embedded mind-control signal that originates from Bush's Hurricane
and Earthquake Machine.

Well, it's not exactly a conspiracy, but it's close. The problems
caused by excessive radio clock accuracy are quite serious. After
all, time is natures way of keeping everything from happening at once.
That's exactly what's happening when everyone carries an accurate time
piece. Instead of a random timing of events caused mainly by the wide
variations in older mechanical and power line sync clocks, we how have
nanosecond accuracy on our wrists. Instead of a wide dispersion of
event timing, such as arriving late to work, we have everyone arriving
at exactly the same time. This has resulted in parking lot crunch,
the packing of the elevators, collisions in the doorways, and instant
depletion of the office coffee dispenser. This is repeated at
quitting time, when everyone leaves at the exact same nanosecond.

The obvious solution is to reduce the accuracy of WWVB or introduce a
random dither (selective availability?) into the watch timing. Time
accuracy will vary a few minutes one way or the other, and the peak
load on the facilities will be reduced and dispersed over a wider time
period.
 
A

art

Jan 1, 1970
0
All this for 245kHz of band space in a frequency area of high noise and
long propagation paths.

Engineering would dictate looking elsewhere.

But hey, you want to try, go ahead. I believe there are allocations in
the above spectrum for transmitting a couple watts into a antenna less
than three feet long. I would think a wrist watch transmitter would qualify.

Google up VLF, melt some solder, and let us know how you do.

Chris- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Chris, the antenna used in wrist watches can only be used to store
information.
Since the antenna is based on superconductors the watch has to be
cooled to a extremely low temperature
before the data becomes accessable.That method has not been made
public outside the military.
One can consider the analogy of cold weather antennas generally known
where under certain environmental conditions transmission can be
stored, and with the onset of warm weather ice particles in the shape
of dots and dashes gradually emerge in data form so the transmission
can be decoded.
If you wash your arms and hands with your watch strapped on then time
is on your side as decoding is near impossible.
Art
 
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