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Home Depot Motion Sensor, On when power is turned on.

Hi,
Trying to build a low tech alarm.
Bought a Home Depot Motion Sensor 180 degree Heath / Zenith for
floodlight.
Open the case, modify the connection of the internal 24 V DC relay.
Now, it is normally open and the contacts are not connected to any of
120v line. Stable, as long as 120V power remains on. Good for driving
12 V siren (will add relay if necessary).

PROBLEM: Powering up always energizes the relay for about 1 minute
(warming up??). So after power blackout, will get false alarm, the
siren will go off for 1 minute.

Any solution would be appreciated.

Thx u
 
A

alarman

Jan 1, 1970
0
Trying to build a low tech alarm.
Bought a Home Depot Motion Sensor 180 degree Heath / Zenith for
floodlight.
Open the case, modify the connection of the internal 24 V DC relay.
Now, it is normally open and the contacts are not connected to any of
120v line. Stable, as long as 120V power remains on. Good for driving
12 V siren (will add relay if necessary).

PROBLEM: Powering up always energizes the relay for about 1 minute
(warming up??). So after power blackout, will get false alarm, the
siren will go off for 1 minute.

Any solution would be appreciated.

Scrap it. Spend a hundred bucks and get a cheap alarm panel and keypad to do
exactly what you want.
js
 
A

ABLE_1

Jan 1, 1970
0
Get a 120v TDR DPDT to break the circuit to the audible siren for 61
seconds. This will eliminate the need for a battery backup.

On the other hand you could also use a APC UPS to power the unit. It would
surely no longer be a low tech alarm but it would work.

OR you could purchase a small 4 zone HI TECH security panel and all your
problems would go away.

Good Luck!!!
 
S

Stanley Barthfarkle

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi,
Trying to build a low tech alarm.
Bought a Home Depot Motion Sensor 180 degree Heath / Zenith for
floodlight.
Open the case, modify the connection of the internal 24 V DC relay.
Now, it is normally open and the contacts are not connected to any of
120v line. Stable, as long as 120V power remains on. Good for driving
12 V siren (will add relay if necessary).

PROBLEM: Powering up always energizes the relay for about 1 minute
(warming up??). So after power blackout, will get false alarm, the
siren will go off for 1 minute.

Any solution would be appreciated.



$75 worth of new professional alarm parts would accomplish your goal much
more easily.
$40 worth of used (panel & keypad) & new (motion, siren, & backup battery)
parts would also do it.
 
E

Eyeball Kid

Jan 1, 1970
0
If you were drywalling your basement, would you be trying to make your
own drywall screws?
 
N

nick markowitz

Jan 1, 1970
0
Since you have modified the unit you have violated the UL listing and using
this unit puts you at very high liabilty if the unit would fail and be
pinpointed as causing a fire etc.
your insurnce carrier would drop you if they knew you were playing with
such things scrap it and get a cheap alarm.
 
R

Robert L Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
Since you have modified the unit you
have violated the UL listing and using this unit puts you at very high liabilty
if the unit would fail and be pinpointed
as causing a fire etc. your insurnce
carrier would drop you if they knew
you were playing with such things
scrap it and get a cheap alarm...

Nick,

First, there's not much likelihood of his motion detector starting a fire (unless he throws the battery in a dumster:)). Second,
insurance carriers don't drop coverage for using a jerry-rigged alarm system unless the policy specifically required a UL-listed
alarm system. All but a tiny fraction of a percent of residential policies do NOT require any alarm system at all.

BTW, this is similar to a commonly held misconception about alarms in general which has occsionally been voiced here. Some paid
alarm installers seem to believe that if an alarm system fails the insurer will refuse to pay. That is patently wrong. Otherwise,
if any electrical component failed and there was a fire the insurers would also refuse to pay.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-866-1100
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
 
N

nick markowitz

Jan 1, 1970
0
Might I remind you Robert I get hired by insurance carriers to determine
cause and origin of electrical fires they do in fact base
insurance payouts in some states like mine on comparative negligence and I
have seen them refuse to pay and or greatly reduce payment based on how
policys are written. Modification of appliances is a big no no

I have to apear in court thursday becuse i took pictures of a fire I was
involved in putting out and helping a local FM investigate which caused
$500,000.00 they belive started from a improperly installed fire place
chimmney spark arrester
that supposedly sent a spark the oposite way the wind was blowing 400 feet
that caught woods on fire and destroyed a large home and several cars.in
2001

Please do not tell me what insurance companys will or will not do. To pay or
not pay a claim since 9-11 the whole insurance industry has completley
changed . The days they just pay and do nothing about who or how it started
are over if blame can be assisgned and collection is possible they will
pursue it. I see it every day.
look at all the Katrina claims they did not pay on comming up with every
excuse they could and now state DA's are going after them.
Any one in the alarm industry who thinks there contracts protect them or the
claim is so small they wont try anything against me is badly mistaken. look
at the loop hole they found in the ADT case in NJ that has NBFAA in a
tizzie.
If some one gets hurt or dies because of something it gets even stickier and
who said batteries do not cause fires especailly now that something has been
modified and violates the UL manufactuers lable. when a manufactuer makes a
device and tests it and affixs a lable there stating the device as
manufactuered is safe and any modification violates the label and
manufactuers claims and warranty.
just like when a switch goes bad on a lamp or garden prunner etc and some
one drills a hole and adds a different typeof switch .to bypass the bad
switch.
The days of the old tinker are very much discouraged in todays litigise
world.
 
N

nick markowitz

Jan 1, 1970
0
Also where do you get batteries in this post he modified a 120 volt motion
sensor used to turn on 120 volt light bulbs.
 
B

Bob

Jan 1, 1970
0
nick said:
Also where do you get batteries in this post he modified a 120 volt motion
sensor used to turn on 120 volt light bulbs.

You should know by now he is the biggest TROLL in this group. He's just
trying to get you to re post his sig line again.
 
N

nick markowitz

Jan 1, 1970
0
I keep forgetting do not feed the trolls
I find it ironic all the things legal wise he has been thru in his life he
would not show more concern but then again when you make yourself judegement
proof what concens would you have
 
R

Robert L Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
I have seen them refuse to pay and or
greatly reduce payment based on how policys are written...

Show me a policy that says they will decline payment if an alarm is modified, other than where an alarm system is a requirement to
get the policy in the first place please.
Please do not tell me what insurance
companys will or will not do. To pay or not pay a claim since 9-11 the whole
insurance industry has completley
changed...

Nah, they're still a bunch of crooks just as they always were.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-866-1100
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
 
F

FIRETEK

Jan 1, 1970
0
If you lie on your insurance policy application (you tell them you have a
monitored alarm system when you really don't just to get the discount),
you've violated a central condtion of the policy and the Insurer has the
right to cancel that policy "ab initio" (at inception). That puts the
policy holder in the same "category" as someone _without_ a policy. They
don't have to "deny" coverage at all. Take it a step further. If your
insurer requires a _monitored alarm system_ and you decide to cancel the
monitoring after the policy is issued, that is also considered a violation
of the policy conditions.

If you lease a car/van/truck and the lease stipulates you have to maintain
collision coverage on the vehicle for the term of the lease and you decide
to reduce the coverage to only include third party liability and "specified
perils" (fire and theft), then the leasing company can legally terminate
their contract and you would be "out" your car.

You can quote "law" all you want, Bass (it's obvious to me that you know
enought to have skirted it for years). You cannot, however, speak for what
an insurance company will do if faced with a substantial claim. If you're
naive enough to believe that a simple limitation clause in your contract is
enough to protect you from any claims, then I hope you have most of your
assets in your wife's name.


Robert L Bass said:
Show me a policy that says they will decline payment if an alarm is
modified, other than where an alarm system is a requirement to
 
R

Robert L Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
If you lie on your insurance policy application
(you tell them you have a monitored alarm
system when you really don't just to get the
discount)...

That's a totally different situation. If you do that most insurers will charge you back the amount of the discount which you
received. OTOH, if the system was *required* to obtain a policy, and there was no system at all you'd be out of luck and rightly
so.
You can quote "law" all you want, Bass
(-- snip personal insult substituted for logic --)
You cannot, however, speak for what an
insurance company will do....

And you can?
if faced with a substantial claim. If you're
naive enough to believe that a simple limitation
clause in your contract is enough to protect
you from any claims, then I hope you have
most of your assets in your wife's name...

Again you're changing the subject. This is the exact thing Olson does when faced with an argument he can't win -- refer to
something else entirely and pretend that proves his original, pointless point. Come to think of it, you post anonymously and
routinely back up Olson. Hmmmm.
 
N

nick markowitz

Jan 1, 1970
0
Wrong Bass
My wifes church had there policy cancelled because the alarm has not been
installed and they still had to pay back the discount and now there having a
hell of hard time getting new insurance. Insurance companys talk to each
other .
 
R

Robert L Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
Please note the smiley. The parenthetical expression was a joke aimed at some idiot who says that an alarm battery can't start a
fire.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-866-1100
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
 
R

Robert L Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hmm. How many aliases is this moron using these days?
 
F

FIRETEK

Jan 1, 1970
0
You are one seriously paranoid individual. Do they make you remove your
foil hat when you're undergoing an MRI?


Again you're changing the subject. This is the exact thing Olson does
when faced with an argument he can't win -- refer to
something else entirely and pretend that proves his original, pointless
point. Come to think of it, you post anonymously and
 
R

Robert L Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
Wrong Bass

Wrong Markowitz. I'm the right Bass.
My wifes church had there policy cancelled
because the alarm has not been installed
and they still had to pay back the discount...

The carrier didn't refuse to pay a claim though. If they had you'd have said so right off the bat so please don't stoop to olsonic
modification of the story.
and now there having a hell of hard
time getting new insurance...

Everyone is having a hard time getting insurance. I never had a claim but I couldn't get coverage from most carriers just because
of the value of my home. Church's usually cost more than private houses. I had a choice between Lloyds and one other carrier. I
took the other. :^)
Insurance companys talk to each other.

You're talking about a totally different situation. At any rate, none of this is relevant to the OP. He never said anything about
a required system, insurance discounts or much of anything else. He wanted advice on modifying a motion activated light for a
jerry-rigged alarm. Disregarding the question of whether that would be useful or not, most of the posts to this thread (including
yours and mine) did nothing to answer his question. What he got was a lot of nonsense about losing his insurance policy even though
none of us knows what his policy is, who the carrier is or what their policies may be.

You have managed to accomplish one thing though, Nick. You took umbrage at my disagreeing with you and responded with personal
insults. I thought that was beneath you.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-866-1100
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
 
R

Robert L Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
You are one seriously paranoid individual.

The difference between sane and insane is that the sane know they're nuts.
Do they make you remove your foil
hat when you're undergoing an MRI?

I wouldn't know. I take it off for CT scans though. The most recent one was excellent -- no cancer. If it stays that way for
another five years I'll be out of the woods. Besides, I'm going to survive just to annoy Jiminex. :^)

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-866-1100
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
 
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