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Hissing in ATX power supply.

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting and Repair' started by kc1fx, Nov 20, 2012.

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  1. kc1fx

    kc1fx

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    Nov 17, 2012
    Under load at startup, my power supply gives a loud hiss. After about a minute or so, the hissing calms down, but still is audible. I just recently replaced the 2 HV transistor pair. Would the 2 large caps in the section be causing the hissing? 680uf @ 250v OH, no load, no hiss.....
     
  2. GreenGiant

    GreenGiant

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    Feb 9, 2012
    the hissing that you hear could actually just be the fan with some dust/debris caught in it.
    its possibly the caps or it could be a transformer that is hissing.
    unless its a really high power one you are probably better off just buying a new one rather than spend a lot of time chasing the issue, they start around 50 or so USD for the standard ATX models
     
  3. kc1fx

    kc1fx

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    Nov 17, 2012
    Not the fan. Yes, I could go buy another one, but I like the challenge to know I can fix it. I'm good with electronics. Strange how a transformer could cause the hissing. Basically they are just windings around a core and what is there to wear out?
     
  4. KJ6EAD

    KJ6EAD

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    Aug 13, 2011
    Transformer windings vibrate and insulation wears through. They also experience thermal expansion and contraction in use which causes annular cracks in winding insulation, especially after high temperatures have embrittled the insulation.

    It doesn't address the transformer matter but the white paper linked below is an excellent primer on SMPS failure modes and repair.

    http://www.ti.com/general/docs/lit/getliterature.tsp?literatureNumber=slva085&fileType=pdf
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2012
  5. QuantumCheese

    QuantumCheese

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    Apr 27, 2012
    I know it sounds a bit simplistic but its almost certainly one of the caps.
    either the mains side smoothing cap/s or more usually the LV end.
    They tend to fail quite obviously - domed top or leaking electrolyte or usually both!
    If they aren't obviously damaged a capacitor meter will usually show up the fault by reading odd values instead of the expected ones. you can use an ESR meter, i find that's usually overkill.
    I know PC PSU's are cheap-as-chips but i've given a new lease of life to 'quite a few' now for no more than a couple of quid.
     
  6. KrisBlueNZ

    KrisBlueNZ Sadly passed away in 2015

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    Nov 28, 2011
    The hissing sound could be instability in the control loop. It certainly could be caused by the output capacitors. It might be worth replacing them all, especially if the power supply is more than a few years old. Also, it could perhaps be the optocoupler or the TL431 (or similar) that drives it, assuming it's a dumb feedback system.

    It's interesting that it stops after a few minutes. Presumably because of something warming up. It would be interesting to know whether the instability is stopping, or the transformer is just tightening up enough that you can't hear it any more. Do you have an oscilloscope? Can you look at the waveform across a secondary (any secondary) on a slower scale than the actual switching frequency, to see whether there's noise there?

    Assuming the problem goes away due to something warming up, you could try spraying rapid freeze on the likely components (start with the semiconductors) to see whether the noise reappears.
     
  7. QuantumCheese

    QuantumCheese

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    Apr 27, 2012
    Its usually because a PC powers up ALL-ON, it's only when the OS takes over the power-saving modes kick in on eg. cpu & graphics card/s thus lowering the strain on the power supply.

    Edit: it can also happen when the supply is on almost No load! I had one once that only made a noise when on standby. still turned out to be the smoothing cap on the Vstby output though :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
  8. penfold

    penfold

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    Oct 24, 2012
    Agreeing with KrisBlue, it sounds very much like a control loop problem, the fact it only happens for a short period could be due to warming up as the capacitance and internal resistance of output caps isn't consistent with temperature so the control characteristics will change and could move into a more stable mode
     
  9. Jeffpepin

    Jeffpepin

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    Nov 15, 2012
    +++1 !
     
  10. Jeffpepin

    Jeffpepin

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    Nov 15, 2012
    why splent 40$ when u can fix it for free :)
     
  11. Jeffpepin

    Jeffpepin

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    Nov 15, 2012
    have u try to run powersupply without mainboard ? the noise u hear is like 16khz or more ? still agressing noise from old television? .

    im curious if you run directly the psup without anything connected on it if he hurl help anymore. ( green wire of atx connector on black wire)
    i think i have get an old asus p4c800 E deluxe motherboard that cry like this then the mobo failed soon after
     
  12. kc1fx

    kc1fx

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    Nov 17, 2012
    Fixed tonight

    The hissing was caused by a bad 22uf 50v cap in the primary side. I used freeze spray to discovery it. So, I pulled both the caps and 1 measured 16uf and the other one 4uf. All I had was 2 33uf @ 50, so I put them in and BINGO. PURRS like the day I bought it. All together, I had 3 bad caps and one 13009 transistor. 2 of the caps were in the 3.3v output. The other was the one mentioned above. :) GREAT learning experience. It was worth the effort.

    Thanks for the references I was told to look at.

    Merry Christmas.
     
  13. KrisBlueNZ

    KrisBlueNZ Sadly passed away in 2015

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    Good work kc1fx. Merry Christmas to you too :)
     
  14. tweakjunkie

    tweakjunkie

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    Jan 8, 2013
    I agree, fix it and keep it out of the landfill ! Caps, Caps, Caps, Caps !!!!
    Don't discount the main filter either. Had a SWMPS with an open main filter that drove me nuts. I didn't think it would even start. It measured "Error 7" on my Sencore LC102, it was completely open.

    Watch out though, if you touch the high side of the chopper on the primary, you will have curly hair.

    Good luck
     
  15. KrisBlueNZ

    KrisBlueNZ Sadly passed away in 2015

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    tweakjunkie, that's a great attitude.

    I often spend much more than an "economical" amount of time trying to fix things. As well as learning about electronic products, learning about how components fail and which brands and types fail often and in what way, the reward of diagnosing a problem, and avoiding the expense of replacing them or buying them new, I feel very proud that I'm keeping stuff out of the landfill.

    This is an uncommon attitude in today's "use it till it breaks, then throw it away and buy another" economy, although the "DIY movement" is bucking that trend.

    What kind of tweaks are you a junkie of, BTW?
     
  16. tweakjunkie

    tweakjunkie

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    Jan 8, 2013
    Mostly high end audio Kris. Been at it for some 30 years now.... Lotsa solder smoke inhaled. I think I brained my damage !! Nice to chat with you, heading off to bed, 1:38 am here. Later :)
     
  17. quantumtangles

    quantumtangles

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    Dec 19, 2012
    My redneck DIY PC also has a power supply issue. Very reliable since I put it together 3 years ago (motherboard, power supply, flash drive), the machine has started getting very noisy when I first turn it on.

    It was only after reading this interesting thread that it dawned on me...my own power supply has precisely the same problem. It now sounds like a tractor when I first turn it on, and then becomes perfectly quiet within about 2 minutes.

    On the assumption I also have an errant electrolytic capacitor, I bought some Freezing spray (just in case it is not visibly defunct...do not have an ESR meter yet).

    I am going to check out whether the noise reappears after freezing suspicious electrolytic capacitors (that is a very clever idea by the way...thanks for that KrisblueNZ). But I would also like to test it with my new (second hand but new to me) oscilloscope. How might I test the caps using the oscilloscope...do I need two test leads and both channels to find a secondary wave pattern or can i use one channel and one test lead (as I only have one lead atm, connected to channel 1 from which red and black croc clips emanate)?
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2013
  18. (*steve*)

    (*steve*) ¡sǝpodᴉʇuɐ ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɥd Moderator

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    Jan 21, 2010
    In retrospect, this was a good observation.

    Also, knowing that the ESR of capacitors goes down (i.e. it gets better) with increasing temperature, this fits in well with an electrolytic capacitor fault.

    It is similar to the motherboard that won't boot the first few times, then is OK until you turn it off for a while.
     
  19. quantumtangles

    quantumtangles

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    Dec 19, 2012
    Good to know these things. The posts about repairs are almost always interesting...of real practical use.
     
  20. KrisBlueNZ

    KrisBlueNZ Sadly passed away in 2015

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    Nov 28, 2011
    quantumtangles, a power supply that sounds like a tractor probably has a fan problem. Poke an ice block stick through the fan when it's making the noise, to stop it from turning. If the noise stops, get a new fan.

    This thread is about a hissing or sizzling noise that comes from the power supply board itself.
     
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