Maker Pro
Maker Pro

Help Identifying a Battery

centraltrains

Aug 5, 2016
15
Joined
Aug 5, 2016
Messages
15
595df6bf_2d5e_4bfb_8d5f_a448b1fada0b.jpg


Hello,

I have a question about the NewRay RaildRoadN toy trains. The system works by charging a rechargeable battery on board the train (when the train stops at a battery bank where it is charged from). However I have had a train where the battery has leaked so I need to replace it. The problem is that I am not sure on what type of battery it is!

I contacted someone on YouTube who does lots of videos on disassembling electronics whom suggested that it could be a 1/4 AAA and 1/3 AAA battery put together. I tried this however the train doesn't seem to respond how it suppose to. The train is meant to have a short charging session and then release all the energy at a continue speed until it runs out however the 1/4AAA and 1/3AAA batteries I have purchased work by letting the energy out quickly at first but then gradually getting slower and slower. I have attached a picture in case anyone can help me find out what type of battery it is!
 

shrtrnd

Jan 15, 2010
3,876
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Messages
3,876
I can't see your picture.
Do you have any information on the electrical specs? Even a marking on the recharging bank that specifies
battery type, input voltage required?
Have you opened the battery bank (I assume so, as you identified battery leakage). Are there any markings on
the batteries themselves?
 

Sunnysky

Jul 15, 2016
541
Joined
Jul 15, 2016
Messages
541
looks like CR123 with 2x in series

exact dimensions would help
 

BobK

Jan 5, 2010
7,682
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Messages
7,682
Have you tried removing the green wrapper? The cells might be marked underneath.

In all likelihood, they are either NiCad or NimH cells.

Bob
 

centraltrains

Aug 5, 2016
15
Joined
Aug 5, 2016
Messages
15
I can't see your picture.
Do you have any information on the electrical specs? Even a marking on the recharging bank that specifies
battery type, input voltage required?
Have you opened the battery bank (I assume so, as you identified battery leakage). Are there any markings on
the batteries themselves?

The green sleeve has no markings at all. It is 31m length ways and has a diameter of about 8mm.
I have not removed any sleeves (each end has exposed metal and there was orange puffy stuff coming out of one end!) I will do that but only at a last resort really as I don't want anything to suddenly get even worse!

Up to the centre of the notch it is about 14mm on one side and 16mm on the other.

looks like CR123 with 2x in series

exact dimensions would help

The two portions seem to be different sizes though...


Have you tried removing the green wrapper? The cells might be marked underneath.

In all likelihood, they are either NiCad or NimH cells.

Bob

What is the difference between NiCad and NimH?
I may try taking it off tomorrow, are there any precautions I should take in doing this?

And thanks for all replies so far :)
 

(*steve*)

¡sǝpodᴉʇuɐ ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɥd
Moderator
Jan 21, 2010
25,510
Joined
Jan 21, 2010
Messages
25,510
A colleague of mine brought a couple of tiny remote control cars for "show and tell" a couple of years ago.

They charged in a second or so and ran for a respectable time.

They used supercaps.

At the time, supercaps were pretty exotic and I was surprised to see them. Maybe this is the answer?
 

hevans1944

Hop - AC8NS
Jun 21, 2012
4,878
Joined
Jun 21, 2012
Messages
4,878
Using the picture above as a guide, use a single-edged razor blade to make an incision along the length of the two cells. Make another incision around the circumference between the two black lines that are closest together. This will separate the two cells and you can peel the shrink-wrap insulation from both cells. There may or may not be identifying marks on the cells. They two cells may be soldered together with a thin, folded, strip of tinned metal. If so, cut the metal strip in the middle to separate the two cells. It is unlikely these are supercapacitors. They are probably Ni-MH (nickel metal-hydride). If really OLD they may be NiCd cells. They might even be rechargeable lithium ion cells, but these require special chargers.

Since only one of your two cells shows visible leakage from one end, the other one may still be functional. You may be able to identify it by its open-circuit voltage if it isn't completely discharged. Alternatively, you may be able to identify the cells by measuring the voltage produced by the charger. Post some more pictures after you have separated and unwrapped the two cells and provide some voltage measurements from the one "good" cell and the charger.

A pretty good overview of battery-operated model railroad engines can be found here.
 

eKretz

Apr 8, 2013
251
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
251
I'd bet they're NiMHs. Definitely not alkaline based on the description of performance.

Edit: Just Googled that train set and it mentions using 1.2VDC rechargeable batteries - almost certainly NiMH.
 
Last edited:

centraltrains

Aug 5, 2016
15
Joined
Aug 5, 2016
Messages
15
Hi,

Thanks for your further replies. I have taken the wrapper off and sadly there are no markings.

IMG_20160806_093358.jpg


It does seem that they are in fact the same size as davenn pointed out. The seem to be either 14/15 mm each. Not quite sure where to measure up to.

Sadly I don't have any voltage testers or testing equipment (I usually take the bad practice of just using a 9V battery with resisters to test things (though admittedly this is for OO model train lighting circuits which can take up to 12 or 16V)

I did try replacing them with these: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-2V-NiMH...hash=item35e73ba152:m:m5aVHMvyLq3R78L5bQrfs5g (1 1/3AAA and 1 1/4AAA (which now appears not to be the right choice) and they were NiMH though don't seem to take the right usage pattern.

The base which charges the batteries is a bank of 4 AAA batteries. I'm not sure on the circuity inside it.
 

centraltrains

Aug 5, 2016
15
Joined
Aug 5, 2016
Messages
15
internalworking.jpg

This is the internal workings of the charging unit if it helps at all. It takes 4 AA batteries.
 

centraltrains

Aug 5, 2016
15
Joined
Aug 5, 2016
Messages
15
A colleague of mine brought a couple of tiny remote control cars for "show and tell" a couple of years ago.

They charged in a second or so and ran for a respectable time.

They used supercaps.

At the time, supercaps were pretty exotic and I was surprised to see them. Maybe this is the answer?

Can supercaps leak?
 

(*steve*)

¡sǝpodᴉʇuɐ ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɥd
Moderator
Jan 21, 2010
25,510
Joined
Jan 21, 2010
Messages
25,510
Weeeell, kinda.

But they would likely have very distinct + and - markings and you'd be unlikely to see 2 in series like you have here.

What is the recommended charge time? Tens of minutes to hours?
 

centraltrains

Aug 5, 2016
15
Joined
Aug 5, 2016
Messages
15
Weeeell, kinda.

But they would likely have very distinct + and - markings and you'd be unlikely to see 2 in series like you have here.

What is the recommended charge time? Tens of minutes to hours?

The whole branding of the product is "Charge 1 Minute, Play 3 minutes."
 

eKretz

Apr 8, 2013
251
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
251
Using two different capacity batteries and charging them while connected in series means they could not possibly have charged properly, and could possibly have even been damaged on the first charge.
 

centraltrains

Aug 5, 2016
15
Joined
Aug 5, 2016
Messages
15

hevans1944

Hop - AC8NS
Jun 21, 2012
4,878
Joined
Jun 21, 2012
Messages
4,878
They should be rechargeable, but you never know when purchasing from Asian merchants on eBay. There is a lot of inoperable junk being sold on eBay. Are these 1/3AAA cells? Button, flat-head, or solder tab type? Are you sure you have them connected with the proper polarity? Did you solder connections to the two cells? Are you sure your "recharging station" is producing sufficient voltage and current to recharge these NiMH cells?

When working with things electrical, a 9 V battery and a resistor is NOT a good substitute for a multimeter. Purchase an inexpensive digital multimeter. One with 3-1/2 digits will do fine, i.e., one that reads from 0.000 to 1.999 like this one. Or go read this review article for other suggestions. Without a multimeter, you are literally flying blind in a dense fog, visibility zero, and your instrument panel is non-operational. Planes, trains, and automobiles crash under those conditions.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Top