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HELP: halogen vs energy-saving light bulb.... woes :S

Discussion in 'Electronic Basics' started by KevinGPO, Dec 29, 2005.

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  1. Try google on "Tilley Lamp".
    IIUC what in the UK is called paraffin is called kerosene in the USA.
    BICBW..

    The lamps I like run on British paraffin, have a glass fuel tank, can be
    adjusted to anything from a bright,white light to a much more gentle glow.
     
  2. default

    default Guest

    You don't get around much. They are sold in the US (and most of the
    world) under the name of Aladdin Lamps. In continuous production for
    ~99 years. No pressurized fuel tank just a circular wick with a lot
    of air passages in the brass gallery. Chimney is long and elegant
    looking (and required to draw enough air through). Flame burns blue
    or nearly so. No noise. Can be adjusted from about the equivalent of
    7 watts to 75+ watts incandescent. Color is broad spectrum warm
    white.

    I have and use a couple of them. In addition to light they put out
    about 2,000 BTU's of heat and probably go about 6-8 hours on a quart
    of kerosene.

    Likewise there are mil spec "all fuel" pressure mantle lamps made
    similar to Coleman lamps that will run on kerosene, etc..

    http://www.firelight.com/oil_lamps.html some history on oil lamps
    with pictures of an Aladdin Lamp
     
  3. operator jay

    operator jay Guest

    If you are able to scope the line side current, that may tell you whether
    there is saturation. Kinda sounds like it.

    j
     
  4. James Sweet

    James Sweet Guest


    Now that you mention it, we had one of those when I was a kid, actually
    two of them, there was one on our sailboat that hung over the table. If
    I recall right, they had a tubular wick inside the mantle, really did
    produce a lot of light.
     
  5. Salmon Egg

    Salmon Egg Guest

    If the most popular theory of how mantles work is correct, all you need is a
    hot low emissivity flame to heat the mantle. Depositing soot onto the mantle
    would ruin the performance. You want to use the selective emissivity of the
    mantle everywhere in the spectrum except where visible light will be
    emitted. That allows the mantle to reach a high temperature.

    Mantles used to use very white thorium oxide doped with cerium oxide for
    (visible) emissivity. Because of what I think is an unreasonable fear of
    radioactivity, the thorium has been replaced with yttrium in modern mantles.
    The thorium and yttrium oxides have similar optical properties and can
    withstand the high temperatures.

    Bill

    -- Ferme le Bush
     
  6. Sjouke Burry

    Sjouke Burry Guest

    I think that you just described driving a transformer into
    saturation. You can check that by measuring the input current,
    which will jump to very high values as you pass the voltage
    above which it goes into saturation. In that region it
    will become very quickly very hot.
     
  7. Ross Herbert

    Ross Herbert Guest

    Australia is similar to the UK. Only large installations will use a
    common transformer for halogens/luminaires. Most domestic
    installations are installed as 1 transformer per luminaire.

    This paper gives brief details of electronic and magnetic transformers
    for halogens/luminaires.

    http://www.tridonicatco.com.au/MEDIEN/CAT0304_AU/TRANS.PDF
     
  8. Excellent! I had looked for something like this but only found
    individual data sheets (in German..).


    The conventional transformer sections mention that they should only be
    used with the rated lamp load - as posters have remarked.

    Individual specs for them then go on to give a range of acceptable loads
    - eg 20-100% for the 180-1200VA OGT transformers.


    ISTM that, where individual luminaires/light fittings have a supplied or
    inbuilt transformer this may be designed with a much worse regulation
    than a transformer designed for use with multiple individual
    (unspecified) light fittings.


    BTW, my tests on my "toroidal" lighting transformer showed that the
    output waveform became distorted on light loads and over supply voltage,
    having the peaks flattened in both cases. I haven't done supply current
    yet - I know I have a suitable current trasnformer somewhere, but it may
    be in the attic...
     
  9. KevinGPO

    KevinGPO Guest

  10. James

    James Guest

    This is only a guess. They look like Halogen Par 16 bulbs. You might
    Google that to see if you get a match.


    Again, this is only a guess. I am close if the width of this bulb is
    about 2 inches.


    --James--
     
  11. James

    James Guest

  12. KevinGPO

    KevinGPO Guest

    Now that we have identified that my bulbs are MR-16:

    http://members.lycos.co.uk/kevingpo/nukedownloads/P01-09-06_20.13.jpg

    http://members.lycos.co.uk/kevingpo/nukedownloads/P01-09-06_20.15.jpg

    http://members.lycos.co.uk/kevingpo/nukedownloads/P01-09-06_20.16.jpg

    Can you advise me on the lowest-energy / energy-saving-light-bulb-like
    bulbs that I can purchase for the socket type that I have. Or are the
    bulbs am using the cheapest/lowest-energy I can use?

    I prefer using the energy-saving light bulbs (11W, etc.) Bayonet B22 or
    ES base fitting. Is it possible getting a convertor from the current
    sockets I have, or do I have to get an electrician to replace the
    sockets?

    Best regards
     
  13. Dave D

    Dave D Guest

    These are low voltage halogens, probably 12V. You'll have to get the
    fittings replaced, and if they use a remote transformer there'll be some
    rewiring needed as well. There's no way you'll be able to fit low energy
    compact flourescents in these fittings.

    Dave
     
  14. Fads

    Fads Guest

    http://www.firstlightdirect.com/pp/...rd_Dichroic_Lamps_12_Volt_Lamp_GU5.3_Cap.html

    or

    http://tinyurl.com/753x4

    not a bad price too.

    Like other posters have said you will not be able to fit energy saving lamps
    in your fittings.
     
  15. GregS

    GregS Guest

    I used to be conservative at my old house using as little electricity as possible.
    I now moved to a house with an electric water heater and electric dryer, and my bills are half what
    they used to be. I now try to find ways to use electricity!

    greg
     
  16. James Sweet

    James Sweet Guest


    Those are 12V halogen lamps, you'll have to replace the entire fixtures
    to put something else in there, aside from some very expensive LED
    retrofits I've seen which aren't as bright as the halogens, have rather
    ugly color properties, and would never pay for themselves in savings. If
    you have to have an electrician replace the fixtures rather than doing
    it yourself I'd be shocked if that ever came close to paying for itself
    either.
     
  17. James Sweet

    James Sweet Guest


    Hot tub and electric heat pump will do that for you, my last bill was
    for over 2,000 KWH, though that's still less money than my old gas
    furnace was costing me.
     
  18. Edward Reid

    Edward Reid Guest

    Believe. They are best known in the US under the Aladdin brand:

    http://aladdinlamps.com

    also good pictures and description at

    http://waltonfeed.com/aladin.html

    Yes, they work. My wife and I used quite a few of them for a couple of
    years about thirty years ago, when we were building a house and living in
    it and didn't have it ready for electricity. They are more persnickety than
    gasoline or propane mantle lamps, and more likely to burn dirty and soot up
    the chimney. Of course, they put out a lot of heat. OTOH, they are
    certainly safer than gasoline lamps -- a leak in a gasoline lamp is an
    invitation to a disaster, whereas a leak in a kerosene lamp is an
    inconvenience. And Aladdin makes some beautiful models, if you want them
    for decoration as well as light.

    The only issue is lighting, as it takes more work to make enough of the
    kerosene burn to get the mantle hot, but once it's hot the kerosene
    vaporizes and acts pretty much like gasoline. (A similar principle applies
    the the MSR camp stoves which can burn kerosene -- harder to get started,
    but once it's hot enough to vaporize the kerosene it can work well.)

    Edward
     
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