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HELP: halogen vs energy-saving light bulb.... woes :S

Discussion in 'Electronic Basics' started by KevinGPO, Dec 29, 2005.

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  1. KevinGPO

    KevinGPO Guest

    I need some help and advice. I just moved into a new expensive flat. I
    am trying to save money as I am low on income. I noticed that my entire
    flat is illuminated by halogen light bulbs. Every single light bulb
    socket in the ceilings are halogen bulb sockets. I know that halogen
    light bulbs uses 10x more electricity/energy than conventional/old
    light bulbs. Does anyone know the easiest way to replace the halogen
    bulb sockets to be able to use the conventional/old light bulbs? Does
    there exist a convertor?

    To save some money I have taken all but one halogen bulb out from each
    room. However I still don't like the sight of halogen light bulbs. I
    prefer installing "energy saving" light bulbs but I do not want to use
    floor/table lamps. There are now holes with dangling wires from where
    the halogen light bulbs used to be. The wires are the halogen sockets.
     
  2. Are you saying a halogen bulb of say 20W uses 200W ?
     
  3. Bill Kearney

    Bill Kearney Guest

    Except they don't. Check the wattage.
    You need to better describe the lamp sockets. If they're low voltage cans
    with transformers in the assembly then you'll have to replace the entire
    assembly.
     
  4. Guest

    No, but they might use 4X more than compact fluorescents.
    I replaced 150 W halogens with 14 W CFs in some art-deco church wall sconce
    light fixtures with large semi-circular frosted glass shades beneath by
    removing the metal fire-prevention grid above each bulb (which had reduced
    the light output a lot), then unscrewing the halogen socket and removing it
    and its pigtails and wirenuts to its feed wires and then adding a $2 black
    plastic medium base bulb socket, wirenutting its 6" pigtails to the original
    feed wires. Each socket had a metal tab with a hole for a sheet-metal screw
    to attach it to the metal back of the fixture, after I wrapped the socket
    with foil tape so it didn't look dark through the shade.

    I modified only 1 of 8 fixtures first, then invited the building committee
    in to guess which one. They studied hard, but nobody guessed right :) So
    then they became angry because I had fooled them and touched the building
    without their permission, and then finally gave in and allowed me modify
    the rest of the fixtures, at my expense, with faint thanks.

    Nick
     
  5. Guest

    "Are you saying a halogen bulb of say 20W uses 200W ? "

    That appears to be what he is saying, and as far as I know, it's not
    true. In fact, here in the US, halogen bulbs that can replace std
    screw in light bulbs are marketed as giving more light output for the
    same wattage. The difference isn't great, maybe 10-15% or so more
    light output according to the label. But the point is halogens are
    generally at least as good as regular light bulbs, if not better in
    terms of energy usage.
     
  6. I think possibly the OP is saying that an energy saving lamp with an
    equivalent light output to a 20W halogen will use rather less electricity.

    Piggybacking, sorry!

    But:,

    if the dangling wires are from a 12V transformer, then it might be
    possible to add a rectifier and feed it to a 12V fluorescent light
    fitting - of the type intended for boats, caravans, etc. How many years
    it would take to recover the cost, I wouldn't like to think about.

    if the wires are mains, then it might be possible to connect a standard
    lampholder and use it with an energy saving lamp.

    Just mentioning those as ideas.

    If it were me in that situation, I think I would have left things as
    they were but use them sparingly - maybe taking out a few lamps, rather
    than complete fittings. Wires dangling fron ceilings upsets people.

    But then, I quite like table lamps. Nothing quite like the sight and
    sound of a clear-glass paraffin (kerosene?) mantle lamp or two, a good
    fire in the fireplace and a big thick rug in front of the fire... sorry,
    mind is wandering..
     
  7. default

    default Guest

    Halogen bulbs burn hotter and are more efficient than conventional
    tungsten/inert gas bulbs. Only 5% more efficient . . .

    Here in the states, we have Edison base (medium screw base) bulbs for
    most lighting (including retrofit halogen lamps). What do you have,
    "bi pin" halogen lamps in halogen fixtures?

    If you mean "candelabra" style lamp bases (smaller screw base) there
    are new compact fluorescent lamps out that replace them directly.
    Energy saving compact fluorescent lamps are ~5 X more efficient than
    conventional incandescent lamps. Distributed in a "standard" Edison
    (screw) base version and a smaller candelabra screw base lamp here.

    The new(er) compact fluorescent lamps have only been in the stores for
    a few months here. Sylvania/Osram brand. They have them in 7 Watt
    /280 lumen versions and 13 Watt 600 lumen types. Unlike the spiral or
    serpentine lamps, these have a small glass "globe" and the whole globe
    lights evenly. They start instantly too (40 milliseconds or so).

    The globe is bullet shaped to replace chandelier style lamps.
     
  8. buffalobill

    buffalobill Guest

    lots of halogens are offered for replacement by LED's these days. check
    your voltage of your bulbs, the base style, and the wattage, and have a
    look at eBay for ideas if the bulbs are just for hallway lighting.

    also: to correct the energy usage information:

    "Tungsten-Halogen Incandescent Lamps
    A tungsten-halogen lamp is an incandescent lamp with gases from the
    halogen family sealed inside the bulb. It has similar light output to a
    regular incandescent bulb while using up to 40 percent less power.
    Although tungsten-halogen lamps are more expensive to buy, they last
    two to four times longer than conventional incandescents.

    Tungsten-halogen lighting provides excellent colour rendering and gives
    off a whiter light than conventional incandescent bulbs.
    Tungsten-halogen lamps can be used indoors and outdoors and are
    suitable for gardens and marking pathways. These lamps can be dimmed,
    although they should occasionally be used at full power to keep the
    bulb from darkening.

    Tungsten-halogen technology is available in several lamp types. The
    standard bulb is similar in size and shape to a conventional
    incandescent. In some wattages, these bulbs can save about 15 percent
    of the energy used by a conventional incandescent. Other
    tungsten-halogen bulbs can produce more light than a standard
    incandescent with the same wattage."

    quoted from here:
    http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/publications...Household_Lighting_Section3.cfm?attr=4#sect02


    for compact flourescent info:
    http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/energystar/english/consumers/questions-answers.cfm?attr=4
     
  9. redbelly

    redbelly Guest

    IIRC, halogens are also superior in lumen maintanance. The halogens
    cause evaporated tungsten to redeposit on the filament, instead of
    darkening the bulb over time.

    Mark
     
  10. operator jay

    operator jay Guest

    Does anybody think there would be any inspection authority / insurance /
    other issues involved in modifying fixtures which, presumably, used to be UL
    or otherwise listed?

    j
     
  11. Dave D

    Dave D Guest

    With low voltage fittings, running them with bulbs missing or blown is a bad
    idea. Each time a bulb goes out on a low voltage halogen, the secondary
    voltage on the transformer rises significantly, and the remaining bulbs will
    have a shorter lifespan.

    Dave
     
  12. Dave D

    Dave D Guest

    They don't, they use similar amounts of power. You appear to be confusing
    'conventional' light bulbs with compact flourescent/energy saving bulbs.
    If the bulbs are low voltage types and the fitting uses a conventional mains
    transformer, you'll find the lifespan of the remaining bulb(s) decreases
    significantly if you run the fittings with missing bulbs.

    Dave
     
  13. Pooh Bear

    Pooh Bear Guest

    No.

    In fact halogen provides slightly more lumens like for like compared to
    normal incandescent. The bulbs are pricey though.

    Graham
     
  14. On what do you base this?

    I have just checked this using two transformers - both intended for use
    with fluorescent lighting. The voltage did not rise significantly when
    varying the load between the transformer's maximum rating (120W) and
    minimum (35W). It also did not rise significantly when increasing the
    supply voltage by 10%. The manufacturer's spec sheet for the
    transformers support this. Indeed, all are rated for a range of outputs
    - eg 35W <-> 110W.

    It is quite possible that the halogens are either mains or have
    individual transformers. In which case, removing lamps certainly would
    not matter.

    It is unlikely that the OP has a shared conventional transformer, not
    designed for use with halogen lamps.
     
  15. No, only if the light fittings share a common conventional (ie not
    designed to be used with halogen lighting) mains transformer will there
    be any adverse effect. The fittings probably use indvidual transformers,
    or a shared electronic transformer, or a transformer designed to be used
    with halogen lights.

    Is "flourescent" the American way of spellling fluorescent?
     
  16. I meant, of course, "intended for use with halogen lighting".
     
  17. Guest

    "operator jay" <

    "Does anybody think there would be any inspection authority / insurance
    /
    other issues involved in modifying fixtures which, presumably, used to
    be UL
    or otherwise listed? "

    No, unless the church burns down. In which case I wouldn't want to
    have been the one doing the modifications to the light fixtures. :)
     
  18. Dave D

    Dave D Guest

    On personal experience and basic physics. The cheapo 4X25watt halogen B&Q
    type fittings with standard iron cored mains transformers are designed to
    put out 12V into a 100W load. When a light fails, the remaining three
    brighten considerably due to the voltage rise, which can be considerable as
    there's no regulation whatsoever.
    Flourescent lighting? ;-)
    Because that is probably a switchmode PSU, which will likely have some
    regulation and may be designed specifically for different loads. If you
    raise the input voltage of a iron cored conventional mains transformer by
    10%, the output will also rise by 10%. It's basic physics.
    I've never seen a single domestic halogen fitting with separate transformers
    for each bulb.
    Not unlikely at all. Every domestic halogen fitting I've ever seen has one
    shared transformer for all the bulbs on that fitting, and most of those use
    a 'conventional' iron transformer for low cost. Most commonly a 100W
    transformer supplying 4 25Watt 12V halogens. There are halogen fittings with
    long flexible wires with insulation-piercing postionable lights which can be
    strung up walls or across ceilings, sometimes with many lights on them, but
    they still share a common (large) transformer.
    Who said anything about not being designed for use with halogens?

    Dave
     
  19. CJT

    CJT Guest

    What does your landlord think of your efforts in this regard?

    What does your lease say about them?
     
  20. This sounds to me like you have a transformer specifically designed to
    regulate output voltage rather than a conventional transformer.

    Also, what fluorescent lamps ranging from 35W to 120W need this
    transformer?

    - Don Klipstein ()
     
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