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Help diagnosing AC Sliding gate controller stops halfway

mikey5791

Jun 7, 2013
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Hi forum friends,
This is my home AC sliding gate controller which has been working faithfully since year 2012.
Few days back, when i press the button on the remote control to open, the gate opens full length with no problem but when i press the button again for closing, the gate stops at halfway and doesn't move. If i pressed the remote control, the gate will opens full. Then the process repeats itself again and it just doesn't close full properly. Also, there is no obstruction on the gate rail.
When i checked the controller board, i didn't notice any burn parts or anything unusual.
To assist in diagnosing the board, there are 19 green pins on the bottom section for wire connection.

Pin 1 and 2 are for the ac live and neutral.
Pin 3~5 are for the motor wire common, left and right.
Pin 6 and 7 are not used.
Pin 8 and 9 are for ac power 24v.
Pin 10 is not used.
Pin 11~13 are for limit switch common wire, close and open.
Pin 14 and 15 are for manual push button switch inside the house
Pin 16~19 are not used.

Appreciate anyone with knowledge or past experience in diagnosing this type of board to share and help to bring back the board to its full use. Thank you.
 

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Martaine2005

May 12, 2015
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You mention no obstructions on the rail. Does the gate stop in exactly the same position or is it hit and miss?.
I would think by your description, that it's a mechanical problem.
Check the wheel bearings. The wheel might twist and jam against the rail while being pulled closed.
Can you disengage the drive cog to the gate?. Try it and push the gate open feeling for resistance, once felt, check wheel alignment.
Does the motor work in both directions properly when the gate is disengaged?

Martin
 

(*steve*)

¡sǝpodᴉʇuɐ ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɥd
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Added to the above, the board seems to have a safety reverse. I presume this reverses the gate's motion if it is blocked by something. Please check to see if this still works.

If it does, it tends to indicate the gate is not simply getting stuck, because it would try to re-open. And you indicate that it can reopen without problem.

Also have a quick look at the "limit switch" LED when the gate is closing. Does it come on?
 

mikey5791

Jun 7, 2013
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Hi Martin,
The gate stop almost at the same position and i checked the wheel bearings which runs freely without any resistance in both directions. The wheel does not jam against rail or anything of resistance. After i lift off the gate, i checked for wheel alignment by moving the wheel for looseness to left or right, front and back. The wheels seem to be firmly attached and aligned properly.
One thing i noticed is whenever i pressed the remote button to close, after about 2 or 3 second i can hear the relay "click" sound from the board, then the sliding gate will stop. That is how the gate stop every time at that same interval. Can it be the faulty intermittent relay causing the gate to stop?
On the board i saw two transparent type relay with Omron brand marking of G2R-1(12vdc)10A 250vAC. Below the two transparent type relay, there is one black color with marking HJR-JFF-S-Z.
Btw, if the suspect is the relay how do i test which one is the faulty one?
Hoping for further guide and assistance.
 

mikey5791

Jun 7, 2013
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Added to the above, the board seems to have a safety reverse. I presume this reverses the gate's motion if it is blocked by something. Please check to see if this still works.
Yes, it is still working.
If it does, it tends to indicate the gate is not simply getting stuck, because it would try to re-open. And you indicate that it can reopen without problem.

Also have a quick look at the "limit switch" LED when the gate is closing. Does it come on?
When the gate is closing, the "limit switch" LED (the red color) is on.
 

(*steve*)

¡sǝpodᴉʇuɐ ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɥd
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Hmmm, Typically the limit switch is used to indicate the end of travel. Does it illuminate when the gate is opening?

Is there a switch that indicates that the gate is fully closed? It might be worth checking it and its wiring.
 

73's de Edd

Aug 21, 2015
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Sir mikey5791 . . . . . . . (haven't we done some great and wonderful things in past times ? )

Pin 11~13 are for limit switch common wire, close and open.

Check at the gate mechanics where the limit switches are located and see if you can relate as to what mechanical movement . . .rotary or linear . . . is being involved with the activation of the gate close limit switch.

See if the switch just activates as the gate stops prematurely at the not fully closed position.

Thus making one want to think that the gate . . .unbeknownst to you . . . experienced a jam / slippage at one time and now the timing has been upset for that limit switches engagement. ( Its now activating too soon. ) ( Or, possibly, just with time and use, a related set screw may have loosened. )
A slight mechanical adjustment should change the gate stop point.
If then confirmed, then you need to adjust back to the former position.

73's de Edd . . . . .


I've stopped calling the bathroom " The John " and instead, renamed it "The Jim".
Now, I feel so much better and am now impressing people with my saying " I went to the Jim this morning. "



.
 
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mikey5791

Jun 7, 2013
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Steve,
The limit switch green led will illuminate during the gate opening, but if the gate is closing then the red led will illuminate until it is fully close. When the gate is fully closed, the red led will auto switch off. In my case, during closing gate halfway(while the red led illuminate), i will hear a click sound from the board indicating it is acting weird, then a second of green led switched on then off followed by gate stops.

Sir 73's de Edd,
Yes indeed we had done many wonderful projects together in the past.
Fyi, the limit switch on the board pin 11~13 are connected to the limit switch on a separate section on the motor, which up to now is untouched. Sorry i have no idea how it is related to mechanical way but i will say it activate the motor in a rotary movement. When the limit switch activates itself with click sound, the gate stops prematurely at halfway. Sort of timing goes haywire or it activates too soon. I checked all the wirings and don' t see any loose wires or screw.
For reference i attached the brochure indicating my auto gate motor brand of Celmer SL1000,
with no schematic or wiring diagram to be found anywhere. I think it is custom installed here in our country.
 

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Martaine2005

May 12, 2015
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I think Steve and Edd are onto something with the limit switches.
Reading a little on how these work, some systems need 'relearning'.
Also, a lot of problems are caused by the photocell. Do you have a photocell sensor on yours? or a digital display to indicate an error code?

Martin
 

mikey5791

Jun 7, 2013
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Martin,
This board do not have a photocell sensor or digital display to indicate any error code.
Maybe you can help to elaborate on the "relearning" thing which i am not aware.
 

Martaine2005

May 12, 2015
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I think the 'relearning' is their technical term for setting the limit switches again.
I downloaded the PDF (here) of the units specs but have not found a set up guide yet.

Martin
 

Martaine2005

May 12, 2015
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Upon further reading, your units limit switch looks to be similar to this, so the set up would be very similar too.
Make sure the 'stops' on the gate are in the original positions etc.

Martin
 

73's de Edd

Aug 21, 2015
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Demo of this basic type of CELMER gear driven track unit




Looks like THIS is now the parent company of your older CELMER brand

https://www.autogates.com.my/automatic-gate-malaysia/


It appears that the large 20 tooth gear is supposed to start rotating and engaging to the gate track that it meshes with and then it run for a prescribed length of time, until the end of its travel has a limit bracket plate that hits the switch arm (Item S ) that you see sticking out just above the gear. Then the motor stops and is ready for a gate opening on the next cycle.

It seems that the drive motor is now, not running long enough, because I think that there is an internal set of limit switches within that housing.
Lifting the top cover off for exposure probably will reveal that.

Referring to ANOTHER BRANDS photo on page 12 of its 39 pages. . . . . . . .

http://www.southwestautomated.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/sl1000x173.pdf

This photo of the mechanics of another brand is showing that as the big gate meshing gear turns . . . . that it is ALSO rotating a fine threaded linear screw that moves two limit cams . One cam will stop the motor after a prescribed maximum number of turns, in the gate closing direction, with it expecting that the associated bracket plate will have flipped the exposed external switches rod (Item S ).
The same is true of the other cam, in its counting the turns of the big gate meshing gear in gate opening, before it shuts down expecting the other ends
bracket plate to have tripped the exposed external switches rod (Item S ) , on its other side.

This all relates back to my thinking that the large 20 tooth gear has jumped cogs on the linear teeth for many many many many many teeth.
Possibly due to friction binding stress or non timely lubing of moving / sliding areas.

The way that I would confirm this is by my seeing that there is a C clip that holds that large gear in place, from being able to be pulled outwardly and straight off its shaft.
First, I would have noted where the gate was finally stopping at, during an attempted closure.
But this time, I would kill operating power to the unit at about a meter just before that occurs.
Then the C clip comes off and the gear is pulled off and that will leave you able to manually move the gate track by hand until you have the gate track a meter on further towards its being closed.
Then you put the gear back on, with its C clip and power up and cycle the unit to see if it NOW goes that extra meter towards its fully closing.
If so, then you just need to repeat until you have corrected enough so that the gate bracket hits that bi directional external switch (Item S ) .
You now have your gear to track timing back to within operable limits.

If so proven, that should be a work around, but there is probably a push button sequence to be used IF you have or will read its service manual.

THEN you find the bind causing the cog-gear jumping condition . . . . . but you are probably in car or house and totally aurally unaware of any screeeeeech-clunk-thump thump noises coming from the units action after a decade(s) ?

Thaaaaaaasssssit . . . .

73's de Edd . . .

In my exercising, one set that they want me to do is repetitive bending over and reaching down to touch my toes.
Now if GOD wanted me to touch my toes . . . . he would have put them on my knees.



.
 
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mikey5791

Jun 7, 2013
174
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Messages
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Upon further reading, your units limit switch looks to be similar to this, so the set up would be very similar too.
Make sure the 'stops' on the gate are in the original positions etc.

Martin
Martin,
Yes, this is the spring type switch and the 'stops' plate on the gate are in the original positions.
 

mikey5791

Jun 7, 2013
174
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Messages
174
Demo of this basic type of CELMER gear driven track unit




Looks like THIS is now the parent company of your older CELMER brand

https://www.autogates.com.my/automatic-gate-malaysia/


It appears that the large 20 tooth gear is supposed to start rotating and engaging to the gate track that it meshes with and then it run for a prescribed length of time, until the end of its travel has a limit bracket plate that hits the switch arm (Item S ) that you see sticking out just above the gear. Then the motor stops and is ready for a gate opening on the next cycle.

It seems that the drive motor is now, not running long enough, because I think that there is an internal set of limit switches within that housing.
Lifting the top cover off for exposure probably will reveal that.

Referring to ANOTHER BRANDS photo on page 12 of its 39 pages. . . . . . . .

http://www.southwestautomated.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/sl1000x173.pdf

This photo of the mechanics of another brand is showing that as the big gate meshing gear turns . . . . that it is ALSO rotating a fine threaded linear screw that moves two limit cams . One cam will stop the motor after a prescribed maximum number of turns, in the gate closing direction, with it expecting that the associated bracket plate will have flipped the exposed external switches rod (Item S ).
The same is true of the other cam, in its counting the turns of the big gate meshing gear in gate opening, before it shuts down expecting the other ends
bracket plate to have tripped the exposed external switches rod (Item S ) , on its other side.

This all relates back to my thinking that the large 20 tooth gear has jumped cogs on the linear teeth for many many many many many teeth.
Possibly due to friction binding stress or non timely lubing of moving / sliding areas.

The way that I would confirm this is by my seeing that there is a C clip that holds that large gear in place, from being able to be pulled outwardly and straight off its shaft.
First, I would have noted where the gate was finally stopping at, during an attempted closure.
But this time, I would kill operating power to the unit at about a meter just before that occurs.
Then the C clip comes off and the gear is pulled off and that will leave you able to manually move the gate track by hand until you have the gate track a meter on further towards its being closed.
Then you put the gear back on, with its C clip and power up and cycle the unit to see if it NOW goes that extra meter towards its fully closing.
If so, then you just need to repeat until you have corrected enough so that the gate bracket hits that bi directional external switch (Item S ) .
You now have your gear to track timing back to within operable limits.

If so proven, that should be a work around, but there is probably a push button sequence to be used IF you have or will read its service manual.

THEN you find the bind causing the cog-gear jumping condition . . . . . but you are probably in car or house and totally aurally unaware of any screeeeeech-clunk-thump thump noises coming from the units action after a decade(s) ?

Thaaaaaaasssssit . . . .

73's de Edd . . .

In my exercising, one set that they want me to do is repetitive bending over and reaching down to touch my toes.
Now if GOD wanted me to touch my toes . . . . he would have put them on my knees.



.
Sir 73's de Edd,
The video shown is the same type of auto gate system i m using now. That is a lot of detail explanation on how the gate should be working and so far i observed my gate has no sign of cog gear jumping condition. Since i have been putting grease on the gear and rail every three months or so (due to rain washing off the grease), there is no screech thump noises coming from the unit during operation. Reading the pdf manual from Martin also gives me more knowledge and maintenance tips.
 

Bluejets

Oct 5, 2014
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May have already been mentioned but what about the travel current limit?

Usually it operates to shut the motor if the gate hits any obstacle and normally requires setting initially.
Perhaps never set.
Also wonder if you have checked the supply voltage.
 

mikey5791

Jun 7, 2013
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May have already been mentioned but what about the travel current limit?

Usually it operates to shut the motor if the gate hits any obstacle and normally requires setting initially.
Perhaps never set.
Also wonder if you have checked the supply voltage.
If the gate hits any obstacle such as a stone, it will stop and shut the motor. This has occured very rarely in the past, maybe once or twice.
The main ac voltage of 240v is present at pin 1&2 while 24vac at pin 8&9.
 

Bluejets

Oct 5, 2014
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If the gate hits any obstacle such as a stone, it will stop and shut the motor.

Yes, I realise that and as I stated, there should be some adjustment to regulate this level.
Any adjustment proceedure will be in the manual that came with the unit.
I have a similar type of gate closer here.
So is the motor stopping on this "current level sense" due to internal problems be it mechanical in the gearbox or electrical due to some motor internal fault if the rail is clear?
Being the same position on the rail each time, and if not the limit switches, one would imagine some external load on the motor at this particular point.
 

mikey5791

Jun 7, 2013
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Hi Bluejets,

The adjustment that is possible in this unit is the left and right stop plate by loosening the locking screw and move the stop plate horizontally as needed. But i have not done any of this adjustment as my gate stops on its own without the spring mechanism touching any of the stop plate.
When i first noticed the gate auto stops about halfway, i went to check whether the spring thing was triggered by it touching anything, but there is none.
The rail is clear, and by manual free the gear lock i can spin the motor by hand freely without resistance. To me, mechanical gear box tested fine and the motor spins and rotates the other way when i pressed the remote button. The motor itself works as intended. But i just can't figure out why it auto stops about halfway at the same spot eventhough the rail is clear of obstruction, and no button being pressed after the first press. This stop situation is the same if i use the ac manual switch press button inside the house or using the portable remote control piece.
 

Harald Kapp

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Acc. to the manual this unit has a safety limit timer. Could it be the timer triggers and stops the gate from moving?
 
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