Maker Pro
Maker Pro

Heat Pumps: most efficient heat source

N

News

Jan 1, 1970
0
Air to air heat pumps extract less heat from the air than ground source
pumps. Water stores about 3 to 4 times more heat than earth, so typically
will water provide more heat than the ground?
 
G

Gymmie Bob

Jan 1, 1970
0
That first statement is a complete lie.
 
M

Mel

Jan 1, 1970
0
News a écrit :
Air to air heat pumps extract less heat from the air than ground source
pumps. Water stores about 3 to 4 times more heat than earth, so typically
will water provide more heat than the ground?

typically, heat pumps used for heating homes will be more efficient if
they extract heat from a water source (if the water source has
sufficient flow), followed by ground then air. But this is only a very
broade generalisation, and many variables can mean that in some
circumstances, a heat pump in the ground will be better suited to your
job than in a water source.
 
S

Steve Spence

Jan 1, 1970
0
Heat pumps move heat from one place to another, so in winter, when air
temperatures are well below ground temperature, his statement appears
true. In spring or fall, when air temps might be above ground
temperature, but still less then comfortable, his statement appears
false. In neither scenario is it a lie, just not enough information to
make a fact based decision. Of course, if you take the quote literally,
which I don't believe what he meant to write came out exactly the way he
thought, GSHP's don't extract any heat from the air, so instead of a
lie, I'll call it a misspeak. Like most of New's posts. And GB's as well
......


Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust
http://www.green-trust.org

Contributing Editor
http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
 
D

daestrom

Jan 1, 1970
0
News a écrit :
Air to air heat pumps extract less heat from the air than ground source
pumps. Water stores about 3 to 4 times more heat than earth, so typically
will water provide more heat than the ground?

typically, heat pumps used for heating homes will be more efficient if
they extract heat from a water source (if the water source has
sufficient flow), followed by ground then air. But this is only a very
broade generalisation, and many variables can mean that in some
circumstances, a heat pump in the ground will be better suited to your
job than in a water source.

And of course, the relative cost of each source installation varies. And
not all homes have ready access to enough flowing water.

daestrom
 
G

Gymmie Bob

Jan 1, 1970
0
Try a laxative for that problem.

Steve Spence said:
Heat pumps move heat from one place to another, so in winter, when air
temperatures are well below ground temperature, his statement appears
true. In spring or fall, when air temps might be above ground
temperature, but still less then comfortable, his statement appears
false. In neither scenario is it a lie, just not enough information to
make a fact based decision. Of course, if you take the quote literally,
which I don't believe what he meant to write came out exactly the way he
thought, GSHP's don't extract any heat from the air, so instead of a
lie, I'll call it a misspeak. Like most of New's posts. And GB's as well
.....


Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust
http://www.green-trust.org

Contributing Editor
http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
 
N

News

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'm concerned that news has no idea of how a heat pump works,

I know exactly what and how a heat pump works and does, thank you. I'm
concerned you are morphing into a troll.
 
D

daestrom

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert Morien said:
Nope, it gets might hot here in the summer

No doubt. But most folks don't try to 'extract heat from ground/water' in
hot climates. It was clear the OP was concerned with a 'heating season',
not a 'cooling season'.

daestrom
 
G

Gymmie Bob

Jan 1, 1970
0
What is the life expectancy of a home heating heat pump system? I have not
seen 1 of about 12 I know of that have lasted more than 12-15 years. That
needs to be added into the cost.
 
V

Vaughn

Jan 1, 1970
0
daestrom said:
No doubt. But most folks don't try to 'extract heat from ground/water' in hot
climates.

You should look up the definition of "heat pump". You are obviously
confused.
It was clear the OP was concerned with a 'heating season', not a 'cooling
season'.

The comment from "news" is "Thanks. It is in winter I am more concerned
with as that is the time you
would use a heat pump most."

In my climate, that is an incorrect statement.

Vaughn (with a grin)
 
C

Caleb Hess

Jan 1, 1970
0
What is the life expectancy of a home heating heat pump system? I have not
seen 1 of about 12 I know of that have lasted more than 12-15 years. That
needs to be added into the cost.
One data point:

My house was built in 1976 with two GE air-air heat pumps. One of the original
units is still running, the other was replaced with a Trane about 12 years ago.
Maintenance in the 10 years I've lived in the house has consisted of finding
and fixing a freon leak and replacing a motor start capacitor on one compressor.
 
G

Gymmie Bob

Jan 1, 1970
0
Most people here are done with the air heat pumps. Never to go back again.
Too expensive to maintain and the a/c sucks. the unit is too large for a/c
moisture removal. Have they resolved that at all?
 
G

Gymmie Bob

Jan 1, 1970
0
I have a NG high efficiency furnace and the maintenance in 10 years has been
to replace the air filter a few times.
My previous house was 24 years old and resulted in the same. Oh yeah. I
oiled the motor once.
 
A

Astro

Jan 1, 1970
0
I know exactly what and how a heat pump works and does, thank you. I'm
concerned you are morphing into a troll.


Back to your original question about efficiency...


IFF you have an "ample" ground water supply, you can go open loop, draw
ground temp water from one well, run it through the heat exchanger then
back out. Where it goes varies, but for now, just assume that you're
pouring it back into the aquifer.
Water temperature in this case will be pretty much constant throughout the
year. Say 50F for the mid atlantic state. At this temperature, you'll get
the heat pump's rated output which is typically given at around this
temperature.

If you don't have enough ground water to waste, you can use a "standing
column well". this is a deep well where you get water from the bottom of
the well and pour the "used" water back in the top. If the well is deep
enough, then the water drawn out will be a fairly constant temperature.
Downside is the depth of the well will cost you.

If you don't have an ample ground water supply, you can go vertical closed
loop. Ground temperature down below ~15' is essentially constant. However,
as you draw heat from the ground, it will cool. Depending on how fast the
heat can get back in to where the loop is, the cooling of the ground will
vary. If the loop field is poorly designed, it can drop to significantly
and your heat pump output and efficiency will diminish.
Vertical loops will require lots of drilling in most situations to "do it
right". Typical ~250ft/ton but this varies on ground conditions.

If you can't go vertical and go horizontal, you have seasonal ground temp
variations to consider as well as temperature drop from loop use. But
excavation costs will likely be far lower than drilling. And, keep in mind
that a good horizontal loop will be far better than a poorly designed
system of other sorts.

Finally, you have air source. As other posters indicated, if the air
temperature is higher than the ground temperature, all else being equal,
then the air source system will be more efficient but during the cold of
the winter, this is unlikely to be the case. If you look at the "bin data"
for your region, you can find the amount of the year that is at each
temperature.

Beware however!!! As soon as you start running a ground source system, the
ground temperature will start dropping. The longer you run it, the more it
will drop. When you stop running it, the ground temperature will recover.
The problem is, if you have a stretch of cold weather where you run the
system many hours a day, the ground may never have a chance to recover and
will just drop in temperature until the energy extracted balances the
energy that can return. As such, the system will perform worse than
expected. Moreover, it may take some time for the temperature to recover,
so you might find that from December through February, your system is
running at, say, 20F rather than the stated ground temperature of 50F.
Then you'll be getting less than 70% of the rated heat output and far less
efficiency.
 
Top