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Has this happened to anyone else?

W

who

Jan 1, 1970
0
We recently completed the work to remove our house from the grid (two wind
generators, a small PV array, and active solar heat). We came home the other
day to find over $2000 damage to our home from a forced entry, upon
inspection, there was nothing missing. We have now found that our bank,
Wells Fargo, sent someone over to "determine occupancy" of our home, since
surely no one could possibly live in a house not connected to the local
nuclear waste station!
 
M

Me

Jan 1, 1970
0
"who" <[email protected]> said:
We recently completed the work to remove our house from the grid (two wind
generators, a small PV array, and active solar heat). We came home the other
day to find over $2000 damage to our home from a forced entry, upon
inspection, there was nothing missing. We have now found that our bank,
Wells Fargo, sent someone over to "determine occupancy" of our home, since
surely no one could possibly live in a house not connected to the local
nuclear waste station!

Bullshit.....and in what world, universe, dimension, were you living at
the time........

Me show us the Police Report, for the Breakin.......
 
W

who

Jan 1, 1970
0
Nice language, this happened here in good old usa, the current dimension you
are writing in! However the police report shows more personal information
than would be prudent to show in this media format.
The question is how do you start official legal procedings against the
"real" owner of your house, without having the loan called as a balloon!
They even have nerve enough to charge us $35 for breaking in!!!
 
W

who

Jan 1, 1970
0
The problem is as soon as legal procedings start they will call the note,
and I don't even have the ability to refinance, much less pay it off!! (new
job, bankers are hesitant!)
 
In alt.solar.photovoltaic who said:
We recently completed the work to remove our house from the grid (two
wind generators, a small PV array, and active solar heat). We came home
the other day to find over $2000 damage to our home from a forced entry,
upon inspection, there was nothing missing. We have now found that our
bank, Wells Fargo, sent someone over to "determine occupancy" of our
home, since surely no one could possibly live in a house not connected to
the local nuclear waste station!

How could they possibly have determined that you were no longer connected
to the grid? Do they pay your bills for you?

Did you apply for a loan to finance the new power system?

Occupancy would be checked by some means other than breaking and entering.
Furniture inside? General disarray, indicating no one had been there in a
long time? Massive solar array and signs of construction here and there?

A "do not forward" letter?


Thanks for reminding me, though.
I need to call my insurance agent about my new system.
 
D

daestrom

Jan 1, 1970
0
who said:
The problem is as soon as legal procedings start they will call the note,
and I don't even have the ability to refinance, much less pay it off!!
(new job, bankers are hesitant!)

At least talk to a lawyer. Take your mortgage with you. In many cases, a
mortgage cannot be called if it is current and the house is in substantially
good repair.

Any judge would agree that the bank should have tried less intrusive means
to ascertain the house is still occupied before resorting to illegal entry.
If they didn't call, write a letter or otherwise try to contact you before
just breaking in, I think you have a case. Ask your lawyer what he/she
thinks.

daestrom
 
D

daestrom

Jan 1, 1970
0
Merlin-7 KI4ILB said:
How did you find out it was them? Did you ask them why they did not phone
you and set up at time to meet you?
I just can not picture someone doing that.

If it was me, I would have told them that since they left the house wide
open, someone came in and stole everything....
Joe

Good point. Since it should have been apparent to them the house is still
being occupied, what precautions did they take to re-secure the residence?
If none, then they left themselves wide open for liability. You might
mention that to them when they start talking about a $35 'inspection fee'.

daestrom
 
W

who

Jan 1, 1970
0
We asked, they told me they did it, and we have video cameras. They told
me they attempted to contact me, but were unable, however; we have two cell
phones and a wired line all with caller id, and voice mail, and they have
these numbers. We have had numerous problems with our mailbox being
destroyed, so six months ago we changed over to using a PO Box, and sent
them the change of address. They say the never received it, and they sent a
letter to the physical address, however, the forwarding order is still in
effect, so had they sent something in the mail it still should have gotten
to us. I cannot myself even fathom what type of ignorance, and mismanagement
it would take for this to happen!
The sadest part is the person they sent to break in. I could have gotten
in in a few moments with minimal damage (< $30). They pryed on a basement
door with what appears to be a crowbar, damaging the frame, and door there,
and could not get in. They then forced open a front storm door, breaking the
latch, then pryed open the inside door, breaking it's frame, so neither of
these doors would even close, and still could not get into the house due to
the locked foyer doors. So they then went around the back, and drilled out
the locksets in the deadbolt, and knob on the french doors, then broke the
chain out of the door frame on this door, finally gaining access into the
house! It looks as if the person knew they shouldn't, and had no right to be
doing this, so they were trying the less visible doors first, so as not to
get caught, or they were just trying to cause as much damage as they could!
 
S

Steve Spence

Jan 1, 1970
0
who said:
We recently completed the work to remove our house from the grid (two wind
generators, a small PV array, and active solar heat). We came home the other
day to find over $2000 damage to our home from a forced entry, upon
inspection, there was nothing missing. We have now found that our bank,
Wells Fargo, sent someone over to "determine occupancy" of our home, since
surely no one could possibly live in a house not connected to the local
nuclear waste station!

So, did you charge them with breaking and entering?
 
A

Antipodean Bucket Farmer

Jan 1, 1970
0
I imagine that the law specifically forbids them from doing anything of
the sort. Call a lawyer and sue them for at least the cost of
repairing the damage. Although I would consider suing for enough to
make them remember that as long as the mortgage is paid it is none of
their business what you do with your house.


They may have a legitimate concern with what you do
with the house. A homeowner's insurance policy might
have a clause requiring the house to be occupied. They
want someone there to promptly deal with a fire,
plumbing flood/leak, etc. And vacant houses are
magnets for homeless people and criminals, who are
likely to damage it. So, the insurance could actually
lapse after some period (e.g. 90 days) of non-
occupancy.

And that insurance helps to protect the bank's
financial interest (mortgage/lien) in the property, in
case they have to foreclose in the future. So the
mortgage contract may have a requirement to maintain
valid insurance.

OTOH, actually breaking in seems quite heavy-handed,
and probably illegal, unless there were severe signs of
abandonment. I suspect that there is more to the story
than was originally posted.
 
W

who

Jan 1, 1970
0
The loan was current, in fact this happened 4 days after they cashed my
check for an additional payment to principle. The switch off of the grid has
been a long time coming, as money became available, we did not finance it.
We have rental properties also, and the laws regarding what a landlord can
do seem to be much stricter than what a bank can do to "verify the property
for which they have financial interest." I am not a dupe.(I don't think I am
anyway, we all however have our moments(my biggest seemed to be when I
signed a mortgage with Wells Fargo!)) This came completely out of the blue,
we are not home much due to both of us having 1.5 hr commutes to distant
jobs, working overtime, maintaining rentals, four kids, etc. And yes, as
soon as they got in and found that it was occupied they bolted hasps with
deadbolts to the door, and locked it that way, causing more damage. When the
police called them to continue the investigation, they simply told the
police "we cannot discuss the financial matter of this residence with anyone
but the homeowner, while it is in default" (non occupancy is cause for
default on our mortgage, however the house is occupied, so this was a lie.)
So the police assumed we were another deadbeat in default. I can only assume
the local utility informed the mortgage holder that the service had been
shut off. I wish I could get them to do that for me on my rentals!
Thank you for the information on a restraining order against calling the
note, I'll check into that.
 
W

who

Jan 1, 1970
0
Oops, maybe I am a dupe, the hasps contained a Padlock, not deadbolts,
sorry, I'm a LITTLE agitated right now!
 
W

wmbjk

Jan 1, 1970
0
This whole story sounds like total BS to me - unless it was actually some
repo agent that broke in trying to recover items purchased and never paid
for....

You might not be so sure after reading about my experience... I once
had a moron break open an electric gate so that he could (and I am not
making this up) check to see if my dog had a current tag. It turned
out that the local authorities had hired a retired cop to look for
unlicensed dogs. He actually believed he was entitled to "gently"
(according to him) force his way onto property to do his job. His
bosses fell all over themselves apologizing, and I had a cash
settlement for the damages in a very short time.

The OP's case is plenty believable IMO. The mortgage agreement he
signed probably contains loads of fine print assigning all sorts of
authority to the lender. From there it only took a single moron in the
lenders employ to abuse that authority. And, big companies usually
have more than one moron on staff. So instead of apologizing and
making their customer whole, the additional morons will make excuses
and exacerbate the problem.

Wayne
 
W

who

Jan 1, 1970
0
Also, I would like to thank everyone in these groups. I have been able to
use them and the links provided within as very valuable resources in my
projects at home.

Thanks.

I think, by the responses, I can assume this isn't happening very often, and
that my case is, thankfully, a rare occurance. I will post a follow up of
results of my pursuing this further. Thanks for the advice in this matter as
well.
 
W

who

Jan 1, 1970
0
You have a point here, they when called, had no knowledge even that the
house was not unoccupied, and admitted only to sending someone out to
"determine occupancy." This would make it tricky in court to prove who was
at fault. They did however, when told about the damage that was done, state
that "since the property was in default" (this is a chicken and egg story
here!! It wasn't in default because it was occupied, however they
incorrectly placed it into default before they found out the truth.)"they
had every right to send someone to enter the property." Maybe I should make
the kids leave toys out, so the house looks more lived in!!!
 
A

Antipodean Bucket Farmer

Jan 1, 1970
0
(Top-posting fixed)

That is rediculous. NO policy would get by the law, much less anyone
actually buying such a policy.

That would mean that if people left the house unoccupied to go to work, the
insurance company would not cover it??

That is just goofy


No, I didn't mean that somebody has to physically be
there 24 hours a day.

I was referring to situations where the house is left
unoccupied for several months, with nobody generally
living there, and nobody going there during that time
period.

The insurance policy might have a clause that states
that it will lapse (I.e. won't pay out for losses) in
such a situation.
 
G

Gordon reeder

Jan 1, 1970
0
And that insurance helps to protect the bank's
financial interest (mortgage/lien) in the property, in
case they have to foreclose in the future. So the
mortgage contract may have a requirement to maintain
valid insurance.
And most mortgages do have a clause requiring you to
keep an updated insurance pollicy. They even will
collect the insurance priemium from you as part of
your monthly payment. Ever heard of an escrow/impound
account?

If you let your insurance lapse, the bank will buy a
policy for you. Usually at a higher price than you
could get, and it only covers the banks intrest in
the property (read: pays off the balance of the
mortgage if the house is dammaged beyond repair).
 
G

Gordon reeder

Jan 1, 1970
0
When the police called them to continue the investigation, they simply
told the police "we cannot discuss the financial matter of this
residence with anyone but the homeowner, while it is in default" (non
occupancy is cause for default on our mortgage, however the house is
occupied, so this was a lie.) So the police assumed we were another
deadbeat in default.

Hmmm,
Check your credit report. If they reported the loan as being in Default
it could hurt your credit rating. The fact that they told the police
that the loan was in default without elaborating the specific reason
means that you may have grounds to file a slander and defamation suit
as well.

Man, if I was in your shoes, I'd let them have it with everything
I got.

On another note: Even if the bank didn't directly authorize the
breaking and entering, the person they hired was acting as their
agent (look up "agency relationship" on Google) and they are
resposible for the actions of their agent. If nothing else, they
are guilty of not giving clear instructions (IE: failing to control)
their agent.
 
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