Maker Pro
Maker Pro

Hand held RADAR system

T

Tom Potter

Jan 1, 1970
0
A high resolution, handheld, RADAR system can be made
using modern electronics and information technology,

You could quasi-randomly modulate (Variable transmit and listen periods),
a solid state microwave oscillator (Gunn Diode)
with a digital code with good correlation properties (Gold Code),

cross-correlate the echoes received when in the listen mode
with the Gold Code, then cross-correlate the correlations
from the echoes with stored geo-patterns downloaded
from a Google-Earth like data base covering the area of operation,

compare adjacent (In time) echo returns to spot moving targets,
then present the pattern on a small, solid state, color display
that shows the Google-Earth like picture of the area,
with super-imposed moving targets.

You would not need a directional antenna,
nor high power for such a device,
but it would be necessary to sweep the device around
to build up a good correlation of
the area as one's body and other things
would block the signals and,
even though the Google-Earth like picture,
and the location of the RADAR would still be valid,
but blocked moving targets would not be detected.

Note that if a map of the area of operation is downloaded
into the system, and a set of times from the radar to fixed
targets is compared to the map, one could quickly correlate the
map with the echoes and determine where one is.

With such a device, one could move around,
and see where they were on a moving Google-Earth-like picture,
and see the moving targets about them,
perhaps even colored and shaped by the RADAR signatures
of the targets. (People, cars, tanks, trains, an incoming missile, etc.)

Note that for many situations that such a device could replace GPS.
Just like GPS, after the device determines where one is,
it would be able to compute changes in position quickly.

Note that Citizens Band transmitters have a power output if
about four watts, and this system would operate on much less power
as it would be pulsed and use modern digital communications.
A range of only a few miles should be enough to find enough
landmarks the system could use for references.

Hey maybe, I should patent this device?

As I mentioned in old posts,
I used "Data Mining" back in the 1980's
in my businesses and applied for a patent on "Data Mining"
just when they began to allow software to be patented,
but I decided not to complicate my life,
and didn't complete the patent.

In other words,
if you want to commercialize this idea for non-military applications,
go for it.

As any entrepreneur knows,
ideas are a dime a dozen,
and what requires blood, sweat and tears
is getting an idea to the marketplace.

The bottom line is,
no one should be able to hold progress hostage
with a patent, that is obvious to many,
as the state of the art exposes new approaches.

--
Tom Potter

*** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
*** May 2007 Anti-Bigot Award ***
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp
http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
http://no-turtles.com
http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
 
D

Dear Leader

Jan 1, 1970
0
Tom Potter said:
A high resolution, handheld, RADAR system can be made

already done. google for it.
you should get out more, read books and mags.
 
R

Randy Poe

Jan 1, 1970
0
Spamming crossposts reduced somewhat.

A high resolution, handheld, RADAR system can be made
using modern electronics and information technology,

You could quasi-randomly modulate (Variable transmit and listen periods),
a solid state microwave oscillator (Gunn Diode)
with a digital code with good correlation properties (Gold Code),

I guess they stole this one from you, too. Look up
"pulse compression".
cross-correlate the echoes received when in the listen mode
with the Gold Code, then cross-correlate the correlations
from the echoes with stored geo-patterns downloaded
from a Google-Earth like data base covering the area of operation,

By the way, you need aperture for good angular resolution,
unless you do something like SAR. Did they steal that
one from you too?

- Randy
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
A high resolution, handheld, RADAR system can be made
using modern electronics and information technology,

You could quasi-randomly modulate (Variable transmit and listen periods),
a solid state microwave oscillator (Gunn Diode)
with a digital code with good correlation properties (Gold Code),

Impulse (UWB) radar would be a lot cheaper, at least for short-range
applications. The transmitter, electronics and antenna, would cost
about 30 cents in production.

John
 
U

Uncle Al

Jan 1, 1970
0
Tom said:
A high resolution, handheld, RADAR system can be made
using modern electronics and information technology,
[snip]

Do you think traffic cops will give up their lidars for this
incredible intellectual triumph of will?
 
T

Tom Potter

Jan 1, 1970
0
Uncle Al said:
Tom said:
A high resolution, handheld, RADAR system can be made
using modern electronics and information technology,
[snip]

Do you think traffic cops will give up their lidars for this
incredible intellectual triumph of will?

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2

I was disappointed to see that Uncle Al
did not comprehend that the system I proposed
is a completely different from the Doppler RADAR used
to measure speed.

The system I propose would present a Goggle-like map
centered about the user, and show moving targets on the map.

It would replace GPS for many applications,
and would have the advantage that it would
show moving targets. This would be more useful
for boaters and pilots for example.
(And coaches might find it useful
to view and record the paths taken by their players
on various pass patterns.)

I don't think that a Lidar could do this.

--
Tom Potter

*** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
*** May 2007 Anti-Bigot Award ***
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp
http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
http://no-turtles.com
http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
 
T

Tom Potter

Jan 1, 1970
0
Dear Leader said:
already done. google for it.
you should get out more, read books and mags.

I assume that "Dear Leader" is talking about
hand-held, police RADAR
used to determine the speed of cars.

If not, hopefully he will provide references to where
a hand-held RADAR is used to plot one's position
and the positions of moving targets
on a Goggle-like map.

There is a world of difference between what I propose,
and a hand held Doppler RADAR.

--
Tom Potter

*** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
*** May 2007 Anti-Bigot Award ***
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp
http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
http://no-turtles.com
http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
 
T

Tom Potter

Jan 1, 1970
0
Randy Poe said:
Spamming crossposts reduced somewhat.



I guess they stole this one from you, too. Look up
"pulse compression".


By the way, you need aperture for good angular resolution,
unless you do something like SAR. Did they steal that
one from you too?

- Randy

I was disappointed to see that Randy Poe
does not comprehend that one can
rotate the linear distances from the center points
of two circles to points in the circles, onto a pair of lines,
cross-correlate the data to find matches,

and that once you find a match,
you know where to put the point on a Google-like map.

Although, like the GPS system,
it will take a little time to get the first match,
once you get it, it would be easy to track where the RADAR is,
and what targets are moving about it.

I might also point out to Randy, that it makes more sense
to use modern digital techniques and low power,
broadband, transmissions using codes with good
correlation properties than it does to mess around with
an analog transmitted pulse.

If you encode the transmission with a digital code
that has good correlations properties,
you can extract tiny signals out of all kinds of background noise.

The key to having a small, low power, low cost, hand held, RADAR
is to use low power digital circuitry, that puts the emphasis on
digging tiny signals out of the returned echo,
rather than making a bigger bang.

I taught chirp and mti RADAR at Fort Monmouth back in the 50's,
and read all the info about RADAR technologies in the "MIT Radiation
Series",
and today's digital techniques are far superior to those old techniques.

And I don't know where Randy got the idea that anyone
ever stole anything from me. I am always trying to give stuff away,
like this hand-held RADAR idea.

As I mentioned, ideas are a dime a dozen,
and what takes blood, sweat and tears
is to take an idea to the marketplace.

As Edison, the guy who gave us audio, video,
electric power and modern electronics
(By his invention of the diode which lead to the triode and transistors.),
"Genius is one percent inspiration (Idea),
and 99 percent perspiration (Hard work)."

--
Tom Potter

*** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
*** May 2007 Anti-Bigot Award ***
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp
http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
http://no-turtles.com
http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
 
T

Tom Potter

Jan 1, 1970
0
Buck Mulligan said:
Funny, that- I applied for a patent for my common cold cure back in
1965, but decided it was going to be a big hassle.

Hey, did you ever come up with your proof that there are only 800 cops
in Beijing?

I was pleased to see that "Buck Mulligan"
who got all bent out of shape by one of my posts,
was only able to challenge one comment of
the many facts and points I raised in my posts.

Considering that the point bothers "Buck Mulligan" so much emotionally,
I will research the point when I am not involved with
more important matters.

Considering that Buck claims he has a cure for the "common cold",
I suggest that he pass his cure along to the folks,
as I frequently do when I have an idea that I think might benefit folks.

Thanks for becoming a regular reader of my posts Buck.

Stay in touch, and keep scrutinizing my posts Buck,
and let me know when you think you find an error,
as I only claim to be 99.44% accurate, and
I need loyal readers like you to point out when
I make a typo, misspell, or my memory fails me.

--
Tom Potter

*** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
*** May 2007 Anti-Bigot Award ***
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp
http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
http://no-turtles.com
http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
 
J

Jim Yanik

Jan 1, 1970
0
Uncle Al said:
Tom said:
A high resolution, handheld, RADAR system can be made
using modern electronics and information technology,
[snip]

Do you think traffic cops will give up their lidars for this
incredible intellectual triumph of will?

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2

I was disappointed to see that Uncle Al
did not comprehend that the system I proposed
is a completely different from the Doppler RADAR used
to measure speed.

The system I propose would present a Goggle-like map
centered about the user, and show moving targets on the map.

It would replace GPS for many applications,
and would have the advantage that it would
show moving targets. This would be more useful
for boaters and pilots for example.

(And coaches might find it useful
to view and record the paths taken by their players
on various pass patterns.)
the common digital video camera already does that,with a LOT better
resolution,and color display.Coaches use them during football games.
I don't think that a Lidar could do this.

Ya think ground clutter might be a problem?

Boats already have radar systems,although not handheld.
No trees,buildings,or trucks out on the water.No metal signs,either.

Now,for your envisioned system,does the operator have to rotate 360deg for
a complete scan,or does the handheld radar do that itself?
 
R

Randy Poe

Jan 1, 1970
0
Spamming crossposts once again trimmed.

I was disappointed to see that Randy Poe
does not comprehend that one can
rotate the linear distances from the center points
of two circles to points in the circles, onto a pair of lines,
cross-correlate the data to find matches,

and that once you find a match,
you know where to put the point on a Google-like map.

Although, like the GPS system,
it will take a little time to get the first match,
once you get it, it would be easy to track where the RADAR is,
and what targets are moving about it.

I might also point out to Randy, that it makes more sense
to use modern digital techniques and low power,
broadband, transmissions using codes with good
correlation properties than it does to mess around with
an analog transmitted pulse.

Google "pulse compression", as I said. You'll find
that pulse compression radars use "broadband transmissions
using codes with good correlation properties." That's
where the "compression" part comes in. The time
resolution is much smaller than the length of the pulse.

- Randy
 
T

Tom Potter

Jan 1, 1970
0
Randy Poe said:
Spamming crossposts once again trimmed.



Google "pulse compression", as I said. You'll find
that pulse compression radars use "broadband transmissions
using codes with good correlation properties." That's
where the "compression" part comes in. The time
resolution is much smaller than the length of the pulse.

- Randy

Nice parroting Randy,
but you don't comprehend the fundamentals.

I might mention that "broad band" is just a word
that indicates that you need bandwidth
to get good time resolution.

Note that in my post I wrote:
"You could quasi-randomly modulate (Variable transmit and listen periods),
a solid state microwave oscillator (Gunn Diode)
with a digital code with good correlation properties (Gold Code)"

In other words, you can use short "transmit and listen periods"
to gather information near the RADAR,
and use longer " transmit and listen periods"
to gather information farther from the RADAR.

This is easy to do using modern digital electronics and software.

And note that the required bandwidth will be the same in either case.
(Long or short "transmit and listen period")

Anyone thinking in terms of chirp and "pulse compression"
rather than digital communications and
"codes with good correlation properties"
is behind the times in RADAR.

I forgot to mention in my original post,
that a pseudorandom number associated with each
RADAR system should be used so that each RADAR
can extract its' echo from background noise,
and other RADARs.

A "code with good correlation properties"
is needed in order to find the leading edge of the transmission quickly,
and to allow the RADAR to effectively increase its' sensitivity.
(Dig a signal out of the noise by running a cross-correlation
with a large number of echoes.)

One other point, the system should be programmed to
know when the "transmit and listen period" will be changed,
so that it can immediately adapt to the new period.
(Much as the "handoff in a cell phone system.)

As it takes about ten micro-seconds for a transmitted
signal to go one mile and be reflected back,
after obtaining a "lock" on ones position,
and indicating it on the "Google-like" map,
one could switch the pulse rate to about
50,000 per second, in order to track
moving targets within the one mile range.
(Plenty of echoes to cross-correlate and
dig out weak echoes from.)

If one noted a lot of moving targets at some
compass point, they could wave the system antenna about that sector
to obtain faster updates on the movements.
This would come in handy
in a military or police or search situation.

I suggest that you Google "pulse compression"
and "good correlation properties",
and learn the difference between the two.

I might mention that we used "traveling wave tubes"
to achieve "pulse compression" back in the 1950's,
when no one dreamed of digital codes
with "good correlation properties".

--
Tom Potter

*** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
*** May 2007 Anti-Bigot Award ***
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp
http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
http://no-turtles.com
http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
 
D

Dear Leader

Jan 1, 1970
0
Tom Potter said:
I assume that "Dear Leader" is talking about
hand-held, police RADAR
used to determine the speed of cars.

If not, hopefully he will provide references to where
a hand-held RADAR is used to plot one's position
and the positions of moving targets
on a Goggle-like map.

There is a world of difference between what I propose,
and a hand held Doppler RADAR.

what do you think a police radar is, dummy?


 
T

Tom Potter

Jan 1, 1970
0
Dear Leader said:
what do you think a police radar is, dummy?

It is interesting to see that "Dear Leader"
thinks [sic] that police RADAR has a PPI, GoogleMaps-like display,
and can be used to navigate much like a GPS Receiver.

I suggest that she do a Google search on "police RADAR"
and GPS so she can learn the difference.

Although it appears to be too sophisticated for her,
she might also do Google searches on "Gold Codes",
"Barker code", "cross-correlation", "digital communications",
"GPS and quasi-random" and "Doppler RADAR"
so she can begin to comprehend the difference.

--
Tom Potter

*** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
*** May 2007 Anti-Bigot Award ***
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp
http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
http://no-turtles.com
http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
 
T

Tom Potter

Jan 1, 1970
0
Dear Leader said:
already done. google for it.
you should get out more, read books and mags.

I assume that "Dear Leader" is talking about
hand-held, police RADAR
used to determine the speed of cars.

If not, hopefully he will provide references to where
a hand-held RADAR is used to plot one's position
and the positions of moving targets
on a Goggle-like map.

There is a world of difference between what I propose,
and a hand held Doppler RADAR.

--
Tom Potter

*** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
*** May 2007 Anti-Bigot Award ***
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp
http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
http://no-turtles.com
http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
 
T

Tom Potter

Jan 1, 1970
0
Dear Leader said:
what do you think a police radar is, dummy?

It is interesting to see that "Dear Leader"
thinks [sic] that police RADAR has a PPI, GoogleMaps-like display,
and can be used to navigate much like a GPS Receiver.

I suggest that she do a Google search on "police RADAR"
and GPS so she can learn the difference.

Although it appears to be too sophisticated for her,
she might also do Google searches on "Gold Codes",
"Barker code", "cross-correlation", "digital communications",
"GPS and quasi-random" and "Doppler RADAR"
so she can begin to comprehend the difference.

--
Tom Potter

*** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
*** May 2007 Anti-Bigot Award ***
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp
http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
http://no-turtles.com
http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
 
T

Tom Potter

Jan 1, 1970
0
Randy Poe said:
Spamming crossposts once again trimmed.



Google "pulse compression", as I said. You'll find
that pulse compression radars use "broadband transmissions
using codes with good correlation properties." That's
where the "compression" part comes in. The time
resolution is much smaller than the length of the pulse.

- Randy

Nice parroting Randy,
but you don't comprehend the fundamentals.

Note that in my post I wrote:
"You could quasi-randomly modulate (Variable transmit and listen periods),
a solid state microwave oscillator (Gunn Diode)
with a digital code with good correlation properties (Gold Code)"

In other words, you can use short "transmit and listen periods"
to gather information near the RADAR,
and use longer " transmit and listen periods"
to gather information farther from the RADAR.

This is easy to do using modern digital electronics and software.

And note that the required bandwidth will be the same in either case.
(Long or short "transmit and listen period")

Anyone thinking in terms of chirp and "pulse compression"
rather than digital communications and
"codes with good correlation properties"
is behind the times in RADAR.

I forgot to mention in my original post,
that a pseudorandom number associated with each
RADAR system should be used so that each RADAR
can extract its' echo from background noise,
and other RADARs.

A "code with good correlation properties"
is needed in order to find the leading edge of the transmission quickly,
and to allow the RADAR to effectively increase its' sensitivity.
(Dig a signal out of the noise by running a cross-correlation
with a large number of echoes.)

One other point, the system should be programmed to
know when the "transmit and listen period" will be changed,
so that it can immediately adapt to the new period.
(Much as the "handoff in a cell phone system.)

As it takes about ten micro-seconds for a transmitted
signal to go one mile and be reflected back,
after obtaining a "lock" on ones position,
and indicating it on the "Google-like" map,
one could switch the pulse rate to about
50,000 per second, in order to track
moving targets within the one mile range.
(Plenty of echoes to cross-correlate and
dig out weak echoes from.)

If one noted a lot of moving targets at some
compass point, they could wave the system antenna about that sector
to obtain faster updates on the movements.
This would come in handy
in a military or police or search situation.

I suggest that you Google "pulse compression"
and "good correlation properties",
and learn the difference between the two.

We used "traveling wave tubes"
to achieve "pulse compression" back in the 1950's,
when no one dreamed of digital codes
with "good correlation properties".

--
Tom Potter

*** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
*** May 2007 Anti-Bigot Award ***
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp
http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
http://no-turtles.com
http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
 
T

Tom Potter

Jan 1, 1970
0
Randy Poe said:
Spamming crossposts reduced somewhat.



I guess they stole this one from you, too. Look up
"pulse compression".


By the way, you need aperture for good angular resolution,
unless you do something like SAR. Did they steal that
one from you too?

- Randy

I was disappointed to see that Randy Poe
does not comprehend that one can
rotate the linear distances from the center points
of two circles to points in the circles, onto a pair of lines,
cross-correlate the data to find matches,

and that once you find a match,
you know where to put the point on a Google-like map.

Although, like the GPS system,
it will take a little time to get the first match,
once you get it, it would be easy to track where the RADAR is,
and what targets are moving about it.

I might also point out to Randy, that it makes more sense
to use modern digital techniques and low power,
broadband, transmissions using codes with good
correlation properties than it does to mess around with
an analog transmitted pulse.

If you encode the transmission with a digital code
that has good correlations properties,
you can extract tiny signals out of all kinds of background noise.

The key to having a small, low power, low cost, hand held, RADAR
is to use low power digital circuitry, that puts the emphasis on
digging tiny signals out of the returned echo,
rather than making a bigger bang.

I taught chirp and mti RADAR at Fort Monmouth back in the 50's,
and read all the info about RADAR technologies in the "MIT Radiation
Series",
and today's digital techniques are far superior to those old techniques.

And I don't know where Randy got the idea that anyone
ever stole anything from me. I am always trying to give stuff away,
like this hand-held RADAR idea.

As I mentioned, ideas are a dime a dozen,
and what takes blood, sweat and tears
is to take an idea to the marketplace.

As Edison, the guy who gave us audio, video,
electric power and modern electronics
(By his invention of the diode which lead to the triode and transistors.),
"Genius is one percent inspiration (Idea),
and 99 percent perspiration (Hard work)."

--
Tom Potter

*** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
*** May 2007 Anti-Bigot Award ***
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp
http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
http://no-turtles.com
http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
 
W

willshak

Jan 1, 1970
0
I assume that "Dear Leader" is talking about
hand-held, police RADAR
used to determine the speed of cars.

If not, hopefully he will provide references to where
a hand-held RADAR is used to plot one's position
and the positions of moving targets
on a Goggle-like map.

There is a world of difference between what I propose,
and a hand held Doppler RADAR.
From my experience, a police radar has no idea where it is. It only
determines the speed of an item approaching, or departing from the unit.
The only thing it knows is the spacial distance between it and the
target and the changes in that distance within a specified time. I does
not know if it is in the United States or Saudi Arabia.
 
W

willshak

Jan 1, 1970
0
From my experience, a police radar has no idea where it is. It only
determines the speed of an item approaching, or departing from the unit.
The only thing it knows is the spacial distance between it and the
target and the changes in that distance within a specified time. I
does not know if it is in the United States or Saudi Arabia.
Sorry, put an extra 't' in the last sentence where appropriate.
 
Top