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Hand held RADAR system

Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by Tom Potter, Aug 22, 2007.

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  1. Tom Potter

    Tom Potter Guest

    A high resolution, handheld, RADAR system can be made
    using modern electronics and information technology,

    You could quasi-randomly modulate (Variable transmit and listen periods),
    a solid state microwave oscillator (Gunn Diode)
    with a digital code with good correlation properties (Gold Code),

    cross-correlate the echoes received when in the listen mode
    with the Gold Code, then cross-correlate the correlations
    from the echoes with stored geo-patterns downloaded
    from a Google-Earth like data base covering the area of operation,

    compare adjacent (In time) echo returns to spot moving targets,
    then present the pattern on a small, solid state, color display
    that shows the Google-Earth like picture of the area,
    with super-imposed moving targets.

    You would not need a directional antenna,
    nor high power for such a device,
    but it would be necessary to sweep the device around
    to build up a good correlation of
    the area as one's body and other things
    would block the signals and,
    even though the Google-Earth like picture,
    and the location of the RADAR would still be valid,
    but blocked moving targets would not be detected.

    Note that if a map of the area of operation is downloaded
    into the system, and a set of times from the radar to fixed
    targets is compared to the map, one could quickly correlate the
    map with the echoes and determine where one is.

    With such a device, one could move around,
    and see where they were on a moving Google-Earth-like picture,
    and see the moving targets about them,
    perhaps even colored and shaped by the RADAR signatures
    of the targets. (People, cars, tanks, trains, an incoming missile, etc.)

    Note that for many situations that such a device could replace GPS.
    Just like GPS, after the device determines where one is,
    it would be able to compute changes in position quickly.

    Note that Citizens Band transmitters have a power output if
    about four watts, and this system would operate on much less power
    as it would be pulsed and use modern digital communications.
    A range of only a few miles should be enough to find enough
    landmarks the system could use for references.

    Hey maybe, I should patent this device?

    As I mentioned in old posts,
    I used "Data Mining" back in the 1980's
    in my businesses and applied for a patent on "Data Mining"
    just when they began to allow software to be patented,
    but I decided not to complicate my life,
    and didn't complete the patent.

    In other words,
    if you want to commercialize this idea for non-military applications,
    go for it.

    As any entrepreneur knows,
    ideas are a dime a dozen,
    and what requires blood, sweat and tears
    is getting an idea to the marketplace.

    The bottom line is,
    no one should be able to hold progress hostage
    with a patent, that is obvious to many,
    as the state of the art exposes new approaches.

    --
    Tom Potter

    *** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
    *** May 2007 Anti-Bigot Award ***
    http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp
    http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
    http://no-turtles.com
    http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
    http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter
    http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
     
  2. Dear Leader

    Dear Leader Guest

    already done. google for it.
    you should get out more, read books and mags.
     
  3. Randy Poe

    Randy Poe Guest

    Spamming crossposts reduced somewhat.

    I guess they stole this one from you, too. Look up
    "pulse compression".
    By the way, you need aperture for good angular resolution,
    unless you do something like SAR. Did they steal that
    one from you too?

    - Randy
     
  4. John Larkin

    John Larkin Guest

    Impulse (UWB) radar would be a lot cheaper, at least for short-range
    applications. The transmitter, electronics and antenna, would cost
    about 30 cents in production.

    John
     
  5. Uncle Al

    Uncle Al Guest

    [snip]

    Do you think traffic cops will give up their lidars for this
    incredible intellectual triumph of will?
     
  6. Tom Potter

    Tom Potter Guest

    I was disappointed to see that Uncle Al
    did not comprehend that the system I proposed
    is a completely different from the Doppler RADAR used
    to measure speed.

    The system I propose would present a Goggle-like map
    centered about the user, and show moving targets on the map.

    It would replace GPS for many applications,
    and would have the advantage that it would
    show moving targets. This would be more useful
    for boaters and pilots for example.
    (And coaches might find it useful
    to view and record the paths taken by their players
    on various pass patterns.)

    I don't think that a Lidar could do this.

    --
    Tom Potter

    *** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
    *** May 2007 Anti-Bigot Award ***
    http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp
    http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
    http://no-turtles.com
    http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
    http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter
    http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
     
  7. Tom Potter

    Tom Potter Guest

    I assume that "Dear Leader" is talking about
    hand-held, police RADAR
    used to determine the speed of cars.

    If not, hopefully he will provide references to where
    a hand-held RADAR is used to plot one's position
    and the positions of moving targets
    on a Goggle-like map.

    There is a world of difference between what I propose,
    and a hand held Doppler RADAR.

    --
    Tom Potter

    *** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
    *** May 2007 Anti-Bigot Award ***
    http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp
    http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
    http://no-turtles.com
    http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
    http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter
    http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
     
  8. Tom Potter

    Tom Potter Guest

    I was disappointed to see that Randy Poe
    does not comprehend that one can
    rotate the linear distances from the center points
    of two circles to points in the circles, onto a pair of lines,
    cross-correlate the data to find matches,

    and that once you find a match,
    you know where to put the point on a Google-like map.

    Although, like the GPS system,
    it will take a little time to get the first match,
    once you get it, it would be easy to track where the RADAR is,
    and what targets are moving about it.

    I might also point out to Randy, that it makes more sense
    to use modern digital techniques and low power,
    broadband, transmissions using codes with good
    correlation properties than it does to mess around with
    an analog transmitted pulse.

    If you encode the transmission with a digital code
    that has good correlations properties,
    you can extract tiny signals out of all kinds of background noise.

    The key to having a small, low power, low cost, hand held, RADAR
    is to use low power digital circuitry, that puts the emphasis on
    digging tiny signals out of the returned echo,
    rather than making a bigger bang.

    I taught chirp and mti RADAR at Fort Monmouth back in the 50's,
    and read all the info about RADAR technologies in the "MIT Radiation
    Series",
    and today's digital techniques are far superior to those old techniques.

    And I don't know where Randy got the idea that anyone
    ever stole anything from me. I am always trying to give stuff away,
    like this hand-held RADAR idea.

    As I mentioned, ideas are a dime a dozen,
    and what takes blood, sweat and tears
    is to take an idea to the marketplace.

    As Edison, the guy who gave us audio, video,
    electric power and modern electronics
    (By his invention of the diode which lead to the triode and transistors.),
    "Genius is one percent inspiration (Idea),
    and 99 percent perspiration (Hard work)."

    --
    Tom Potter

    *** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
    *** May 2007 Anti-Bigot Award ***
    http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp
    http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
    http://no-turtles.com
    http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
    http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter
    http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
     
  9. Tom Potter

    Tom Potter Guest

    I was pleased to see that "Buck Mulligan"
    who got all bent out of shape by one of my posts,
    was only able to challenge one comment of
    the many facts and points I raised in my posts.

    Considering that the point bothers "Buck Mulligan" so much emotionally,
    I will research the point when I am not involved with
    more important matters.

    Considering that Buck claims he has a cure for the "common cold",
    I suggest that he pass his cure along to the folks,
    as I frequently do when I have an idea that I think might benefit folks.

    Thanks for becoming a regular reader of my posts Buck.

    Stay in touch, and keep scrutinizing my posts Buck,
    and let me know when you think you find an error,
    as I only claim to be 99.44% accurate, and
    I need loyal readers like you to point out when
    I make a typo, misspell, or my memory fails me.

    --
    Tom Potter

    *** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
    *** May 2007 Anti-Bigot Award ***
    http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp
    http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
    http://no-turtles.com
    http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
    http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter
    http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
     
  10. Jim Yanik

    Jim Yanik Guest

    the common digital video camera already does that,with a LOT better
    resolution,and color display.Coaches use them during football games.
    Ya think ground clutter might be a problem?

    Boats already have radar systems,although not handheld.
    No trees,buildings,or trucks out on the water.No metal signs,either.

    Now,for your envisioned system,does the operator have to rotate 360deg for
    a complete scan,or does the handheld radar do that itself?
     
  11. Randy Poe

    Randy Poe Guest

    Spamming crossposts once again trimmed.

    Google "pulse compression", as I said. You'll find
    that pulse compression radars use "broadband transmissions
    using codes with good correlation properties." That's
    where the "compression" part comes in. The time
    resolution is much smaller than the length of the pulse.

    - Randy
     
  12. Tom Potter

    Tom Potter Guest

    Nice parroting Randy,
    but you don't comprehend the fundamentals.

    I might mention that "broad band" is just a word
    that indicates that you need bandwidth
    to get good time resolution.

    Note that in my post I wrote:
    "You could quasi-randomly modulate (Variable transmit and listen periods),
    a solid state microwave oscillator (Gunn Diode)
    with a digital code with good correlation properties (Gold Code)"

    In other words, you can use short "transmit and listen periods"
    to gather information near the RADAR,
    and use longer " transmit and listen periods"
    to gather information farther from the RADAR.

    This is easy to do using modern digital electronics and software.

    And note that the required bandwidth will be the same in either case.
    (Long or short "transmit and listen period")

    Anyone thinking in terms of chirp and "pulse compression"
    rather than digital communications and
    "codes with good correlation properties"
    is behind the times in RADAR.

    I forgot to mention in my original post,
    that a pseudorandom number associated with each
    RADAR system should be used so that each RADAR
    can extract its' echo from background noise,
    and other RADARs.

    A "code with good correlation properties"
    is needed in order to find the leading edge of the transmission quickly,
    and to allow the RADAR to effectively increase its' sensitivity.
    (Dig a signal out of the noise by running a cross-correlation
    with a large number of echoes.)

    One other point, the system should be programmed to
    know when the "transmit and listen period" will be changed,
    so that it can immediately adapt to the new period.
    (Much as the "handoff in a cell phone system.)

    As it takes about ten micro-seconds for a transmitted
    signal to go one mile and be reflected back,
    after obtaining a "lock" on ones position,
    and indicating it on the "Google-like" map,
    one could switch the pulse rate to about
    50,000 per second, in order to track
    moving targets within the one mile range.
    (Plenty of echoes to cross-correlate and
    dig out weak echoes from.)

    If one noted a lot of moving targets at some
    compass point, they could wave the system antenna about that sector
    to obtain faster updates on the movements.
    This would come in handy
    in a military or police or search situation.

    I suggest that you Google "pulse compression"
    and "good correlation properties",
    and learn the difference between the two.

    I might mention that we used "traveling wave tubes"
    to achieve "pulse compression" back in the 1950's,
    when no one dreamed of digital codes
    with "good correlation properties".

    --
    Tom Potter

    *** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
    *** May 2007 Anti-Bigot Award ***
    http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp
    http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
    http://no-turtles.com
    http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
    http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter
    http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
     
  13. Dear Leader

    Dear Leader Guest

    what do you think a police radar is, dummy?


     
  14. Tom Potter

    Tom Potter Guest

    It is interesting to see that "Dear Leader"
    thinks [sic] that police RADAR has a PPI, GoogleMaps-like display,
    and can be used to navigate much like a GPS Receiver.

    I suggest that she do a Google search on "police RADAR"
    and GPS so she can learn the difference.

    Although it appears to be too sophisticated for her,
    she might also do Google searches on "Gold Codes",
    "Barker code", "cross-correlation", "digital communications",
    "GPS and quasi-random" and "Doppler RADAR"
    so she can begin to comprehend the difference.

    --
    Tom Potter

    *** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
    *** May 2007 Anti-Bigot Award ***
    http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp
    http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
    http://no-turtles.com
    http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
    http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter
    http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
     
  15. Tom Potter

    Tom Potter Guest

    I assume that "Dear Leader" is talking about
    hand-held, police RADAR
    used to determine the speed of cars.

    If not, hopefully he will provide references to where
    a hand-held RADAR is used to plot one's position
    and the positions of moving targets
    on a Goggle-like map.

    There is a world of difference between what I propose,
    and a hand held Doppler RADAR.

    --
    Tom Potter

    *** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
    *** May 2007 Anti-Bigot Award ***
    http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp
    http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
    http://no-turtles.com
    http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
    http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter
    http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
     
  16. Tom Potter

    Tom Potter Guest

    It is interesting to see that "Dear Leader"
    thinks [sic] that police RADAR has a PPI, GoogleMaps-like display,
    and can be used to navigate much like a GPS Receiver.

    I suggest that she do a Google search on "police RADAR"
    and GPS so she can learn the difference.

    Although it appears to be too sophisticated for her,
    she might also do Google searches on "Gold Codes",
    "Barker code", "cross-correlation", "digital communications",
    "GPS and quasi-random" and "Doppler RADAR"
    so she can begin to comprehend the difference.

    --
    Tom Potter

    *** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
    *** May 2007 Anti-Bigot Award ***
    http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp
    http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
    http://no-turtles.com
    http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
    http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter
    http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
     
  17. Tom Potter

    Tom Potter Guest

    Nice parroting Randy,
    but you don't comprehend the fundamentals.

    Note that in my post I wrote:
    "You could quasi-randomly modulate (Variable transmit and listen periods),
    a solid state microwave oscillator (Gunn Diode)
    with a digital code with good correlation properties (Gold Code)"

    In other words, you can use short "transmit and listen periods"
    to gather information near the RADAR,
    and use longer " transmit and listen periods"
    to gather information farther from the RADAR.

    This is easy to do using modern digital electronics and software.

    And note that the required bandwidth will be the same in either case.
    (Long or short "transmit and listen period")

    Anyone thinking in terms of chirp and "pulse compression"
    rather than digital communications and
    "codes with good correlation properties"
    is behind the times in RADAR.

    I forgot to mention in my original post,
    that a pseudorandom number associated with each
    RADAR system should be used so that each RADAR
    can extract its' echo from background noise,
    and other RADARs.

    A "code with good correlation properties"
    is needed in order to find the leading edge of the transmission quickly,
    and to allow the RADAR to effectively increase its' sensitivity.
    (Dig a signal out of the noise by running a cross-correlation
    with a large number of echoes.)

    One other point, the system should be programmed to
    know when the "transmit and listen period" will be changed,
    so that it can immediately adapt to the new period.
    (Much as the "handoff in a cell phone system.)

    As it takes about ten micro-seconds for a transmitted
    signal to go one mile and be reflected back,
    after obtaining a "lock" on ones position,
    and indicating it on the "Google-like" map,
    one could switch the pulse rate to about
    50,000 per second, in order to track
    moving targets within the one mile range.
    (Plenty of echoes to cross-correlate and
    dig out weak echoes from.)

    If one noted a lot of moving targets at some
    compass point, they could wave the system antenna about that sector
    to obtain faster updates on the movements.
    This would come in handy
    in a military or police or search situation.

    I suggest that you Google "pulse compression"
    and "good correlation properties",
    and learn the difference between the two.

    We used "traveling wave tubes"
    to achieve "pulse compression" back in the 1950's,
    when no one dreamed of digital codes
    with "good correlation properties".

    --
    Tom Potter

    *** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
    *** May 2007 Anti-Bigot Award ***
    http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp
    http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
    http://no-turtles.com
    http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
    http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter
    http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
     
  18. Tom Potter

    Tom Potter Guest

    I was disappointed to see that Randy Poe
    does not comprehend that one can
    rotate the linear distances from the center points
    of two circles to points in the circles, onto a pair of lines,
    cross-correlate the data to find matches,

    and that once you find a match,
    you know where to put the point on a Google-like map.

    Although, like the GPS system,
    it will take a little time to get the first match,
    once you get it, it would be easy to track where the RADAR is,
    and what targets are moving about it.

    I might also point out to Randy, that it makes more sense
    to use modern digital techniques and low power,
    broadband, transmissions using codes with good
    correlation properties than it does to mess around with
    an analog transmitted pulse.

    If you encode the transmission with a digital code
    that has good correlations properties,
    you can extract tiny signals out of all kinds of background noise.

    The key to having a small, low power, low cost, hand held, RADAR
    is to use low power digital circuitry, that puts the emphasis on
    digging tiny signals out of the returned echo,
    rather than making a bigger bang.

    I taught chirp and mti RADAR at Fort Monmouth back in the 50's,
    and read all the info about RADAR technologies in the "MIT Radiation
    Series",
    and today's digital techniques are far superior to those old techniques.

    And I don't know where Randy got the idea that anyone
    ever stole anything from me. I am always trying to give stuff away,
    like this hand-held RADAR idea.

    As I mentioned, ideas are a dime a dozen,
    and what takes blood, sweat and tears
    is to take an idea to the marketplace.

    As Edison, the guy who gave us audio, video,
    electric power and modern electronics
    (By his invention of the diode which lead to the triode and transistors.),
    "Genius is one percent inspiration (Idea),
    and 99 percent perspiration (Hard work)."

    --
    Tom Potter

    *** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
    *** May 2007 Anti-Bigot Award ***
    http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp
    http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
    http://no-turtles.com
    http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
    http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter
    http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
     
  19. willshak

    willshak Guest

    From my experience, a police radar has no idea where it is. It only
    determines the speed of an item approaching, or departing from the unit.
    The only thing it knows is the spacial distance between it and the
    target and the changes in that distance within a specified time. I does
    not know if it is in the United States or Saudi Arabia.
     
  20. willshak

    willshak Guest

    Sorry, put an extra 't' in the last sentence where appropriate.
     
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