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Hack Basement Watchdog Water Alarm

backporch

Feb 1, 2016
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When I connect the transistor base to pin 8 10 or 12 the relay is activated immediately. It actually open and closes very fast as I can hear it clicking away.
 

73's de Edd

Aug 21, 2015
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Sir backporch . . . . .




" . . . . . . I can hear it clicking away"

That's telling us that the relay is pulling in with 9V successfully, and that the test is being without the Piezo activated.
Now just try the simplest A.K. suggested potential solution of having the relay STILL with its protective damping diode across it, and thereby,with no transistor being involved in that methodology.
The mentioned relay pair is installed with the + side of the diode and its associated relay coil end coil going to pin 14 of the IC and the the - side of the diode (unbanded) and its associated relay coil end coil going to pin 7 of the IC.

ASIDE . . . .
Remember back on my day one early comment of :
"The last unknown factor is the fact that the IC is floating and not knowing its "bleed thru" voltage to the resistor at the base of the 2N2222." . . . . . .which you are now experiencing.
That would not have been an issue if the emitter of the transistor was connected to pin 7 of the I.C. instead of the ground as was shown

The addition of the electrolytic was for the click-click that you were experiencing.
END . . . .


Its now, for sure, that the output pins of the relay will have to be monitored with an ohmmeter, as the din of the Piezo , from simulation of a wet condition over at the "wet" electrodes will preclude hearing the relay armatures activity anymore.

You suggested that that the initial UNMODIFIED circuit would run in the order of 3 hours on a fresh 9V (alkaline) battery.

Looking at the power factors of all of the parts involved, I believe that it would be much-much-much longer than that .

Only after modified, would the system then be burning up an extra 30 ma in the relay coil when in its ACTIVATED state.

The most common use of that battery used was in early----mid day pocket transistor radios, where a conservative volume level would find about 15 ma of current consumption.
With their rests between usages they gave a satisfactory battery lifespan.

Now . . . . .try . . . try . . . try again . . .until SUCCESS !


73's de Edd


.
 

backporch

Feb 1, 2016
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I connected a wire from pin 14 to the relay and the other wire to pin 7. The diode was setup to allow current to flow from 7 to 14 across the relay. When the sensor was triggered now both the relay closed and the siren sounded. success. It worked with the 9v battery and was even better with the 12v alarm battery.

The manual for the water sensor said the 9v would last years in "ready" mode, but was only expected to last about three hours at full alarm. As great as this alarm is, it definitely has its drawbacks. If the three hours if the alarm sounding are while I am away I might have a water alarm with a dead 9v battery but not a flooded basement yet.

I think the new setup will work much better and I will try to wire up a more permanent solution next week.

If I go the route of using the 12v source, I will need to better understand what other protections I need to include. I know 73 you mentioned a resistor in the input source and I will look into that.

Thanks again for all of your help and I will hopefully post a final solution in the next few days.
 

Alipper

Feb 9, 2016
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Feb 9, 2016
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Hello,

Luckily with Google I found this post today as Im trying to work with the Basement Watchguard Water Sensor myself. What I am trying to do is get a normally closed output when the device is not in alarm, when it goes in alarm I want the output to open. I found this post on amazon http://www.amazon.com/gp/review/R2BTP7CAWJ3ZC2?ref_=glimp_1rv_cl , which basically says to get a 2n7000 and tie the GATE to the oscillator, SOURCE to ground and connect the SOURCE and DRAIN to the alarm . Doing some more research I found this http://kuzyatech.com/watchdog-water-alarm-teardown#more-3049 ( might have to open link more than once as it appears to sometimes open an advertisement) . Im unsure how the person from amazon is finding positive voltage to apply to the 2n7000 via the oscillator when its not tripped.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 

backporch

Feb 1, 2016
21
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Feb 1, 2016
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Hi Alipper
Thanks for posting. I hoped somebody else would see the value in this thread and that all the time ak and 73 put into guiding me would be useful to more people. I am going to use a relay and I cant remeber if my system is triggered by an open or closed circuit. The relay will handle either case.
 

Alipper

Feb 9, 2016
3
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Feb 9, 2016
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backporch,
i cant test this now due to the noise. Does pin 7 which is ground have a positive voltage when not in alarm?
 

backporch

Feb 1, 2016
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Feb 1, 2016
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When the alarm is not activated all the ic pins are around 6-8v. You see the voltage difference when the alarm is activated. the relay can activate at that point and if you connect to the nc pin you will have the open circuit you need.

The lead from the sensor pad that activates the transistor and grounds the IC will have 0v when not activated and when shorted by a finger or water will climb to 2-3v.
 

backporch

Feb 1, 2016
21
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Feb 1, 2016
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I have the watchdog sensor strapped to my sump pump discharge pipe above the water level where the sump turns on. Its a perfect setup for me but the Honeywell units sensor in your link is pretty cool.
 

backporch

Feb 1, 2016
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Below is a picture of my setup to test that this works. I have wires connected to pin 7 and 14 that directly power the relay. When the alarm is on, the relay is activated and the normally open pin in my SPDT relay is activated and the LED lights.

I need to order some parts and try to integrate this into the housing. I also will need to extend the wires quite a bit. I am going to put the sensor in the sump pit, the alarm behind a cold air return vent in my kitchen. If the relay can fit inside the alarm's box where the 9v battery was I will put it there. Otherwise it will reside near the alarm/surveillance panel.

I will post one final time when it is complete, camera and all.
IMG_20160211_074157_946.jpg
 

backporch

Feb 1, 2016
21
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Feb 1, 2016
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I attempted to build the final product but didn't put enough thought into regulating the power coming in. I attempted toncreate a voltage divider to get 9v from the 13+V source.

I got the 9V but not enough current to make the relay work. It works fine on the 13v directly.

What I am wondering is how to set this up. I have some 9v zener diodes on the way. What would the strategy be for using the zener? Couple with a resistor? How would I size that?

Thanks again for the help
 

AnalogKid

Jun 10, 2015
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If you are going with no driver transistor, with the relay directly across the IC, then you don't need a regulator at 13 V. The chip really can handle 15 or 18 V (forget which), and the relay coil tolerance is at least +/-10%.

ak
 

73's de Edd

Aug 21, 2015
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Sir backporch . . . . . .

The following minor changes willl have the water sensing portion operating as before, and not have it being overly sensitive when using a constant 12VDCV on the unit.
Of the 3 marked in resistors, (being on the other side of the board), the middle left two are associated with your piezos oscillator circuitry.
The very top left is supplying voltage to your sensor element .
If you take a #11 Exacto knife and open the Cu foil at the BLUE mark up gap, it then opens the 12V supply line to insert a 330 ohm dropping resistor.
If the holes are drilled and the resistor is mounted on the components side, you can then then scrape a ring around the holes foil side and solder in the resistor with about 1/4 in lead feed thru
lesd length on both leads.
That then permits the zener diodes cathode lead to be ring wrapped around the left of those resistor leads, then its other lead gets ring wrapped around the other existing lead shown to get to ground..
A .01 ceramic capacitor is connected around the Zener for any suppression of random shot noise created.
This change then lets your circuitry use 12V for the piezo and relay drive, but keeps a regulated 9 Vdc on your water sense circuitry.

Photo Markup:
KlnGez1.jpg



73's de Edd





..
 

backporch

Feb 1, 2016
21
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Feb 1, 2016
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CH06_160222220811.jpg Thank you again 73 and AK.

I put together the 12v water sensor and connected it to my surveillance system and all systems are go.

I tested it with a stream of liquid and the alarm chirped a few times and snapped this photo. When the sensor is submerged or even touched with two fingers the alarm sounds loudly.

I zip tied the sensor to the discharge pipe just above the water level where the pump activates. I ran a 30 foot wire to the hacked alarm that I positioned inside a cold air return in the kitchen.

Another wire runs to the alarm system where I have 12v. That is another 30 feet of wire. Two small wires run to the back of my DVR surveillance system to trigger the alarm and send an email.

I plan on taking the old alarm and building the more sensitive 9v setup but I think the solution I have will work reliably as is for now.
 
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