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Greater Toronto Area Recomendations?

A

Alan Whitehouse

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi,

We are going through remodeling and have been wiring for an alarm system as
we go. Now I need to get the connections made and panels installed.

I have 2 questions:

1) Anyone use Alarm Force? Does it work or is it all marketing hype? Three
things I didn't like were: 1) is that they do all sales over the phone and
don't send anyone out to see the house before they quote. 2) I understand
it is all wireless so you have to see all the connections and 3) you
activate and deactivate via your telephone and not a keypad.

The only reason I am using them is that after we got broken into a couple
weeks ago (yea what timing) the officer who responded said they give higher
priority to Alarm Force (he didn't mention names) since the chance of a
false alarm is perceived as being far less.

2) Anyone recommend an installer in the Markham (actually closer to
Stouffville) area for a traditional alarm?

Alan
 
R

R.H.Campbell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Gawd ! I don't disbelieve what you say, but what a sad reflection on the
legitimate security industry....(choke gasp !! )

RHC
 
M

Matt Ion

Jan 1, 1970
0
R.H.Campbell said:
Gawd ! I don't disbelieve what you say, but what a sad reflection on the
legitimate security industry....(choke gasp !! )

RHC

We had an AlarmForce setup in our rented townhouse a few years ago -
after a couple break-ins, we needed something but didn't have the budget
to have an installation done, so their "free installation" offer was
very appealing (this was some time before I got into security systems
professionally).

A few thoughts:

The wireless idea is great - sensors are stuck to door or window frames
with a Velcro pad (the installer who came out used a dab of silicone for
good measure). The "brain" is a little box with speaker that plugs into
a phone line and power outlet and can be placed anywhere inconspicuous.

I, personally, like the idea of using the phone for a keypad: you can
potentially put a keypad wherever you can plug in a phone, or anywhere
within the range of a cordless phone. It's not something I'd recommend
for a standard alarm install, but there's nothing inherantly wrong with
the idea.

I can also see the cop's point of view: with a standard monitored
system, the alarm signals the monitoring center, who then calls back to
verify the problem. If someone answers, great... but if not, how do you
determine if it's a real alarm and the perp is just not answering the
phone (although some, I'm sure, would be stupid enough to do so), or
just another false? What if the perp has knocked a phone off the hook,
and all the monitor gets is a busy signal? They have to dispatch the
cops without knowing whether it's a false.

With the AlarmForce setup, the alarm immediately dials the monitoring
center when it's triggered, and someone there can listen in, in real
time. The perp can hear the voice demanding a response and threatening
to call the cops - unless he's REALLY quiet, the monitor will hear him
moving around and know there's something up. If the perp DOES respond,
he has to provide a name (the customer provides a list of who's
authorized to be in the place) and a password, or the cops are called.
If all the monitor hears is the clock ticking in the background, he
still has a better idea of whether or not to dispatch the police, than
if all he had to go on was the phone ringing through.

Their basic "free" setup doesn't really require a survey of the location
first: all it includes is the "brain" box, one door sensor, and one
motion sensor. Additional sensors cost extra. No wiring needs to be
run, and there's no keypad or separate siren to be mounted. It's a
pretty simple install - our installer was there for all of an hour,
including the paperwork.




---
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R

R.H.Campbell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Sir, I hate to burst your bubble, but this concept is just another
martketing version on the old "low down, megabucks a month" concept. The
only difference is their promotion of the two way voice business, which
sounds better than it is. They use wireless components strictly because it's
easy and cheap to install, NOT because it is better. Coverage is absolutely
minimal, and they make a big issue of this two way voice business, which is
pure marketing hype. DSC sells the same ability with their PC 5904 two way
listen in add on module, but you don't see most alarmcos rushing out to use
it. Perhaps the reason is because it's simply no better than a conventional
phone call. I agree that it sounds good though...it's called selling the
sizzle not the steak ! The idea is not to catch the guy in the process; this
rarely happens. It's to ensure that the home is secured properly after a
real break in. Alarm Farce's promotion of this confrontational "listen in"
ability is simply playing on consumers misunderstanding of the application
of an alarm for their own marketing purposes!

It would also pay to remember this is the same company that made a big
public radio campaign in Toronto telling the thieves in the process one way
to compromise an alarm system. It's just my opinion of course, but knowing
what I know of their installations, I wouldn't touch this company with a ten
foot pole ! I've replaced dozens of their mickey mouse systems over the last
few years. What kind of system, with training, can anyone legitimately
install in an hour. To do everything properly, plus train properly, takes at
least a full day, sometimes two !

Again, just my biased opinion, but they are as close to a scam as any
company can get without actually crossing the line. Sad that a cop actually
buys into that crap about fewer false alarms ! And even sadder still, is
that a lot of consumers buy it as well......

RHC
 
C

Crash Gordon

Jan 1, 1970
0
Velco!
sheesh.



| Sir, I hate to burst your bubble, but this concept is just another
| martketing version on the old "low down, megabucks a month" concept. The
| only difference is their promotion of the two way voice business, which
| sounds better than it is. They use wireless components strictly because
it's
| easy and cheap to install, NOT because it is better. Coverage is
absolutely
| minimal, and they make a big issue of this two way voice business, which
is
| pure marketing hype. DSC sells the same ability with their PC 5904 two way
| listen in add on module, but you don't see most alarmcos rushing out to
use
| it. Perhaps the reason is because it's simply no better than a
conventional
| phone call. I agree that it sounds good though...it's called selling the
| sizzle not the steak ! The idea is not to catch the guy in the process;
this
| rarely happens. It's to ensure that the home is secured properly after a
| real break in. Alarm Farce's promotion of this confrontational "listen in"
| ability is simply playing on consumers misunderstanding of the application
| of an alarm for their own marketing purposes!
|
| It would also pay to remember this is the same company that made a big
| public radio campaign in Toronto telling the thieves in the process one
way
| to compromise an alarm system. It's just my opinion of course, but knowing
| what I know of their installations, I wouldn't touch this company with a
ten
| foot pole ! I've replaced dozens of their mickey mouse systems over the
last
| few years. What kind of system, with training, can anyone legitimately
| install in an hour. To do everything properly, plus train properly, takes
at
| least a full day, sometimes two !
|
| Again, just my biased opinion, but they are as close to a scam as any
| company can get without actually crossing the line. Sad that a cop
actually
| buys into that crap about fewer false alarms ! And even sadder still, is
| that a lot of consumers buy it as well......
|
| RHC
|
| | > R.H.Campbell wrote:
| >> Gawd ! I don't disbelieve what you say, but what a sad reflection on
the
| >> legitimate security industry....(choke gasp !! )
| >>
| >> RHC
| >>
| >> | >>
| >>>The only reason I am using them is that after we got broken into a
couple
| >>>weeks ago (yea what timing) the officer who responded said they give
| >>>higher priority to Alarm Force (he didn't mention names) since the
chance
| >>>of a false alarm is perceived as being far less.
| >
| > We had an AlarmForce setup in our rented townhouse a few years ago -
after
| > a couple break-ins, we needed something but didn't have the budget to
have
| > an installation done, so their "free installation" offer was very
| > appealing (this was some time before I got into security systems
| > professionally).
| >
| > A few thoughts:
| >
| > The wireless idea is great - sensors are stuck to door or window frames
| > with a Velcro pad (the installer who came out used a dab of silicone for
| > good measure). The "brain" is a little box with speaker that plugs into
a
| > phone line and power outlet and can be placed anywhere inconspicuous.
| >
| > I, personally, like the idea of using the phone for a keypad: you can
| > potentially put a keypad wherever you can plug in a phone, or anywhere
| > within the range of a cordless phone. It's not something I'd recommend
| > for a standard alarm install, but there's nothing inherantly wrong with
| > the idea.
| >
| > I can also see the cop's point of view: with a standard monitored
system,
| > the alarm signals the monitoring center, who then calls back to verify
the
| > problem. If someone answers, great... but if not, how do you determine
if
| > it's a real alarm and the perp is just not answering the phone (although
| > some, I'm sure, would be stupid enough to do so), or just another false?
| > What if the perp has knocked a phone off the hook, and all the monitor
| > gets is a busy signal? They have to dispatch the cops without knowing
| > whether it's a false.
| >
| > With the AlarmForce setup, the alarm immediately dials the monitoring
| > center when it's triggered, and someone there can listen in, in real
time.
| > The perp can hear the voice demanding a response and threatening to call
| > the cops - unless he's REALLY quiet, the monitor will hear him moving
| > around and know there's something up. If the perp DOES respond, he has
to
| > provide a name (the customer provides a list of who's authorized to be
in
| > the place) and a password, or the cops are called. If all the monitor
| > hears is the clock ticking in the background, he still has a better idea
| > of whether or not to dispatch the police, than if all he had to go on
was
| > the phone ringing through.
| >
| > Their basic "free" setup doesn't really require a survey of the location
| > first: all it includes is the "brain" box, one door sensor, and one
motion
| > sensor. Additional sensors cost extra. No wiring needs to be run, and
| > there's no keypad or separate siren to be mounted. It's a pretty simple
| > install - our installer was there for all of an hour, including the
| > paperwork.
| >
| >
| >
| >
| > ---
| > avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
| > Virus Database (VPS): 0546-3, 11/16/2005
| > Tested on: 11/16/2005 7:09:45 PM
| > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software.
| > http://www.avast.com
| >
| >
| >
|
|
 
J

Jim

Jan 1, 1970
0
Matt said:
We had an AlarmForce setup in our rented townhouse a few years ago -
after a couple break-ins, we needed something but didn't have the budget
to have an installation done, so their "free installation" offer was
very appealing (this was some time before I got into security systems
professionally).

A few thoughts:

The wireless idea is great - sensors are stuck to door or window frames
with a Velcro pad (the installer who came out used a dab of silicone for
good measure). The "brain" is a little box with speaker that plugs into
a phone line and power outlet and can be placed anywhere inconspicuous.

I, personally, like the idea of using the phone for a keypad: you can
potentially put a keypad wherever you can plug in a phone, or anywhere
within the range of a cordless phone. It's not something I'd recommend
for a standard alarm install, but there's nothing inherantly wrong with
the idea.

I can also see the cop's point of view: with a standard monitored
system, the alarm signals the monitoring center, who then calls back to
verify the problem. If someone answers, great... but if not, how do you
determine if it's a real alarm and the perp is just not answering the
phone (although some, I'm sure, would be stupid enough to do so), or
just another false? What if the perp has knocked a phone off the hook,
and all the monitor gets is a busy signal? They have to dispatch the
cops without knowing whether it's a false.

With the AlarmForce setup, the alarm immediately dials the monitoring
center when it's triggered, and someone there can listen in, in real
time. The perp can hear the voice demanding a response and threatening
to call the cops - unless he's REALLY quiet, the monitor will hear him
moving around and know there's something up. If the perp DOES respond,
he has to provide a name (the customer provides a list of who's
authorized to be in the place) and a password, or the cops are called.
If all the monitor hears is the clock ticking in the background, he
still has a better idea of whether or not to dispatch the police, than
if all he had to go on was the phone ringing through.

Their basic "free" setup doesn't really require a survey of the location
first: all it includes is the "brain" box, one door sensor, and one
motion sensor. Additional sensors cost extra. No wiring needs to be
run, and there's no keypad or separate siren to be mounted. It's a
pretty simple install - our installer was there for all of an hour,
including the paperwork.




---
Uhhhhh, what exactly do you mean by " (this was some time before I got
into security systems professionally)." ?

Do you install alarm systems now?
For a living?
For how long? ......and do you mind my asking what kind of systems you
install?
Did you apprentice with anyone?
Do you know what line seizure is?
Do you know what an RJ31X jack is?

If the perp was going to knock the phone off the hook, how would a
system that " plugs into a phone line and power outlet" get to call out
in the first place?
If the operator heard nothing, while listening in ...... then no
dispatch would be made? But .... If they still would dispatch .....
wouldn't that be a false alarm too? So how is this different than an
alarm that goes through a central station without .... listening in?

Suppose there was an intruder there but he was upstairs ransacking the
bedroom but the operator didn't hear him and the operator doesn't call
PD because they didn't hear anything?

Exactly how long do you think an operator will sit and listen since the
central station line that they are listening on is a line that cannot
be used for other incomming alarm call all the while they are
listening? And that operator can't be handling other alarm signals
while listening in. How many operators do you think will be listening
in on false alarm calls, while blocking other incoming alarm calls that
may be legitimate? How efficient and / or accurate or more reliable,
than standard central station monitoring could this be?

Actually this may clear up something else though. If the policeman DID
say that they believe this kind of system is more reliable than other
sytems, it makes it more understandable why they also aren't smart
enought to realize that there really isn't a 99% false alarm rate.
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Alan said:
Hi,

We are going through remodeling and have been wiring for an alarm system as
we go. Now I need to get the connections made and panels installed.

I have 2 questions:

1) Anyone use Alarm Force? Does it work or is it all marketing hype? Three
things I didn't like were: 1) is that they do all sales over the phone and
don't send anyone out to see the house before they quote. 2) I understand
it is all wireless so you have to see all the connections and 3) you
activate and deactivate via your telephone and not a keypad.


I actually called Alarm Farce once. Here's what I found out. I have a
4000 sq. ft. house on three levels. They wanted to install one door
contact (on the door we use most often to come and go), and one motion
sensor. When I explained to the guy that the best place for the motion
sensor would leave the whole back end of the house (family room, dining
room and kitchen) exposed, he said: "We could always add a second
motion sensor". When I told him we had a cat, he suggested we either
"get rid of it" (not a bad idea since I can't stand the beast, but my
son loves it so that's out), or the installer would set up the sensor to
leave a space between it and the floor that would allow the critter to
be able to freely move about. Now to the door sensor... since we
mostly use the garage/laundry door to enter and leave, that would mean
that all the other main floor doors are unprotected.

Line siezure?? What's that?? The system plugs into your kitchen outlet
(that's where the rep suggested we place the control panel by the way).
Keep in mind that the kitchen is at the back of the house and would be
*unprotected* with the single motion/contact "standard" installation.
Alarm Farce has a "niche" and I believe it's better suited to the
apartment dweller, where you have a single point of entry and can cover
that with a motion detector as "backup". It still leaves the guy with
30 seconds to find the main control and disable it though (and that's
pretty easy if they stay "true to form" and mount the sucker in the
kitchen connected to the phone there with a duplex plug).

You do have to admire the amount of money they spend on radio
advertising though. PT Barnum was right about the "sucker".

The only reason I am using them is that after we got broken into a couple
weeks ago (yea what timing) the officer who responded said they give higher
priority to Alarm Force (he didn't mention names) since the chance of a
false alarm is perceived as being far less.

Alarm Farce *isn't* the only company that uses two way voice systems to
verify an alarm. This technology isn't as "unique" as their ad states.
Find yourself a reputable local dealer and ask him.

2) Anyone recommend an installer in the Markham (actually closer to
Stouffville) area for a traditional alarm?


It's called "research". Go to the local library. Find the yellow pages
for the last three years. Call three companies that have maintained
quarter page ads (or less) in all of those directories. They're the
ones that are liable to "stick" around.

Please *don't* fall for the hype Alarm Farce "sells" in their ads.
 
M

Matt Ion

Jan 1, 1970
0
R.H.Campbell said:
Sir, I hate to burst your bubble, but this concept is just another
martketing version on the old "low down, megabucks a month" concept.

$25/month = "megabucks"?
They use wireless components strictly because it's
easy and cheap to install, NOT because it is better.

I never said it was "better."
Coverage is absolutely
minimal, and they make a big issue of this two way voice business, which is
pure marketing hype. DSC sells the same ability with their PC 5904 two way
listen in add on module, but you don't see most alarmcos rushing out to use
it.

And how much does that module cost? How much is their similar
monitoring service?
It would also pay to remember this is the same company that made a big
public radio campaign in Toronto telling the thieves in the process one way
to compromise an alarm system.

By cutting the phone line? Anyone who's watched a movie or cop show in
the last 30 years has already figured that one out.
few years. What kind of system, with training, can anyone legitimately
install in an hour. To do everything properly, plus train properly, takes at
least a full day, sometimes two !

Really? How complicated does it NEED to be, to be legitimate?

Attach sensor to door and frame. Attach motion sensor to wall. Plug
brain into power and phone. Enter your code to arm and disarm. Does it
HAVE to be more complex than that?

I don't think your average consumer would want an alarm that takes a
day-long course just to operate. The ones I've installed, most of the
users have trouble grasping "zone bypass".
Again, just my biased opinion, but they are as close to a scam as any
company can get without actually crossing the line. Sad that a cop actually
buys into that crap about fewer false alarms ! And even sadder still, is
that a lot of consumers buy it as well......

Well I'm sure you would have been happy to come install a panel, a
couple sensors, and do all the wiring for a really low cost. Being in a
rental at the time, we didn't really want to invest in a big installed
system that we wouldn't even be able to take along when we moved.

For our situation, it was the best option. Even knowing what I know
now, and having installed "standard" alarms myself, I know it would have
been preferable TO US at the time. Sorry if that offends you, but one
size does NOT fit all.


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M

Matt Ion

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim said:
Uhhhhh, what exactly do you mean by " (this was some time before I got
into security systems professionally)." ?

Before? As opposed to after?
Do you install alarm systems now?

Not many. We specialize more in CCTV, but do install the occaisional alarm.

I don't claim to be an expert. I only speak from my own experience. As
I said, the AlarmForce system worked well for our situation.


---
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"Recently, AlarmForce introduced AlarmPlus, the only system in Canada
to utilize a patented two-way communication technology to address the
concern of "telephone line cutting""

so what happens when the phone is cut coming into the home, that line
that comes from the big pole on the street, yah know the one everyone
and their ma knows is da phone line?? And if the phone is cut, how
exactly do they accomplish 2 way communication??

"With 30 offices coast-to-coast, AlarmForce is always there to protect
your home or business. Using our unique, patented technology, the
dedicated members of the AlarmForce team respond to an alarm within
seconds, ensuring that you are protected."

How do they get from where they are to the clients home within seconds,
is Canada smaller than I have been led to believe?? How are they
protecting you, are they sitting outside your home with a shot gun and
a Flir headset?
 
R

R.H.Campbell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Matt Ion said:
$25/month = "megabucks"?

RHC: It is when you are only leasing the equipment, and never own a thing,
with never a chance that you can get reduced rates at some point in the
future
I never said it was "better."


And how much does that module cost? How much is their similar monitoring
service?

RHC: The module is minimal in cost, and doesn't add anything to the cost of
monitoring. Monitoring is whatever the local dealer chooses it to
be....usually from $15 to $25 monthly
By cutting the phone line? Anyone who's watched a movie or cop show in
the last 30 years has already figured that one out.

RHC: Yeah, well interestingly enough, most are too stupid to actually
realize that. And most burglaries are crimes of opportunity where the young
thief sees an opportunity and takes it. He doesn't plan that far ahead. In
any case, you have to question the ethics of any company that would actually
advertise in that fashion to suit their own ends. I'm told just after their
ad campaign, there were a significant number of local robberies done after
cutting the phone lines, something that was not happening to any degree
beforehand.
Really? How complicated does it NEED to be, to be legitimate?

RHC: It doesn't need nor should be complicated to use. But it does take time
to install a professional system, hardwired OR wireless. One hour....that's
a joke !
Attach sensor to door and frame. Attach motion sensor to wall. Plug
brain into power and phone. Enter your code to arm and disarm. Does it
HAVE to be more complex than that?

RHC: Yes, to do it properly !
I don't think your average consumer would want an alarm that takes a
day-long course just to operate. The ones I've installed, most of the
users have trouble grasping "zone bypass".

RHC: True enough; however, legitimate systems are very easy to operate. Any
one who can't grasp the fundamentals of alarm usage shouldn't likely have
one. The day long time period is for proper installation, training,
paperwork, passcards...all the things that Alarmforce don't seem to consider
as important as your name on a long term contract.
Well I'm sure you would have been happy to come install a panel, a couple
sensors, and do all the wiring for a really low cost. Being in a rental
at the time, we didn't really want to invest in a big installed system
that we wouldn't even be able to take along when we moved.

RHC: Actually, rental situations are where wireless equipment makes sense.
And that's what the "all in one" wireless systems were designed for. But the
rule still applies in this business as in all others...you pay nothing, you
get nothing !
For our situation, it was the best option. Even knowing what I know now,
and having installed "standard" alarms myself, I know it would have been
preferable TO US at the time. Sorry if that offends you, but one size
does NOT fit all.

RHC: It doesn't offend me. Consumers should have freedom of choice. I'm just
suggesting, in most homes, in most cases, this is just about the worst alarm
buying decision anyone could make. And you're right, one size doesn't fit
all, something Alarmforce clearly doesn't want to understand..

RHC
 
J

julian

Jan 1, 1970
0
Before? As opposed to after?


Not many. We specialize more in CCTV, but do install the occaisional alarm.

So then you ARE NOT into alarm systems professionally, by your own
admission.

I don't claim to be an expert. I only speak from my own experience. As
I said, the AlarmForce system worked well for our situation.

ANY wireless system would have worked for your situation. You took the
cheap way out and used AlarmFarce.

I'm no fan of all-in-one wireless systems, however there are many
better systems on the market.


Julian
 
J

julian

Jan 1, 1970
0
"Recently, AlarmForce introduced AlarmPlus, the only system in Canada
to utilize a patented two-way communication technology to address the
concern of "telephone line cutting""

so what happens when the phone is cut coming into the home, that line
that comes from the big pole on the street, yah know the one everyone
and their ma knows is da phone line?? And if the phone is cut, how
exactly do they accomplish 2 way communication??

"With 30 offices coast-to-coast, AlarmForce is always there to protect
your home or business. Using our unique, patented technology, the
dedicated members of the AlarmForce team respond to an alarm within
seconds, ensuring that you are protected."

How do they get from where they are to the clients home within seconds,
is Canada smaller than I have been led to believe??

I checked my Atlas and it's only 14" from coast to coast! AlarmFarce
should be able to reply in a jiffy!
How are they protecting you, are they sitting outside your home with
a shot gun and a Flir headset?


Julian
 
J

julian

Jan 1, 1970
0
RHC: It is when you are only leasing the equipment, and never own a thing,
with never a chance that you can get reduced rates at some point in the
future

And this also means if you EVER want to change alarm co, you have to
abandon all the additional purchased equipment too, since nobody in
their right mind would support it. Linear wireless, although improved
over the years, has little support in the legitimate alarm business.
At least as far as standard type alarm systems go anyway. I do use
Linear wireless products, but never wireless motions or door/window
transmitters.


AlarmFarce claims to be Canada's largest installer of two-way voice
alarms. Gee, since they're the only one, AFAIK, doesn't THAT tell you
something? If two-way voice was the great thing AF leads us to
believe, then why aren't ALL police forces and alarm companies across
Canada getting on the bandwagon? The answer is simple, MOST police
officers and ALL LEGITIMATE alarm companies know that it's CRAP.

RHC: The module is minimal in cost, and doesn't add anything to the cost of
monitoring. Monitoring is whatever the local dealer chooses it to
be....usually from $15 to $25 monthly

RHC: Yeah, well interestingly enough, most are too stupid to actually
realize that. And most burglaries are crimes of opportunity where the young
thief sees an opportunity and takes it. He doesn't plan that far ahead. In
any case, you have to question the ethics of any company that would actually
advertise in that fashion to suit their own ends. I'm told just after their
ad campaign, there were a significant number of local robberies done after
cutting the phone lines, something that was not happening to any degree
beforehand.

RHC: It doesn't need nor should be complicated to use. But it does take time
to install a professional system, hardwired OR wireless. One hour....that's
a joke !

Reminds me of the Resident Advisor at UVIC some years ago. He was
proud that he'd be 'in and out in 10 minutes' when he was with a
woman.

One hour to install an alarm with testing, paperwork and demo is a
joke, even if it is a basic system.
RHC: Yes, to do it properly !

RHC: True enough; however, legitimate systems are very easy to operate. Any
one who can't grasp the fundamentals of alarm usage shouldn't likely have
one. The day long time period is for proper installation, training,
paperwork, passcards...all the things that Alarmforce don't seem to consider
as important as your name on a long term contract.

RHC: Actually, rental situations are where wireless equipment makes sense.
And that's what the "all in one" wireless systems were designed for. But the
rule still applies in this business as in all others...you pay nothing, you
get nothing !

What a concept!

My Chinese Grandfather said there are three way you can get things,
cheap, fast and good, but you can only have two at a time.

If it's cheap and fast, it's not good.
If it's fast and good, it's not cheap.
If it's good and cheap, it's not fast.
RHC: It doesn't offend me. Consumers should have freedom of choice. I'm just
suggesting, in most homes, in most cases, this is just about the worst alarm
buying decision anyone could make. And you're right, one size doesn't fit
all, something Alarmforce clearly doesn't want to understand..

RHC


Julian
 
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