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Going crazy - How does this device work?

L

larwe

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'm going a bit crazy trying to work out how a marketing gizmo
operates. Would appreciate any thoughts!

My local supermarket just installed a small Pillsbury promotional
freezer, roughly cube shaped, and about four feet on each side. On the
side it has the doughboy, and a word bubble that says "Hear me
giggle!". I naturally assumed there would be a microswitch on the lid
triggering a speech module, or maybe a light-gate triggering when you
reach in.

However, it's much, MUCH more subtle than that. If you open the lid,
nothing happens. The thing only giggles when you touch a product inside
the freezer. However, not ALL products trigger it. The freezer contains
mostly cinnamon buns and biscuits, which come in a foil-coated
cardboard tube with steel ends. If you touch one of the metal ends, the
giggle starts. If you touch the tube part, it might or might not start
giggling, depending on whether you touch a shiny part or a printed
part.

There happened to be a non-metallized cardboard box of frozen pastry in
the freezer also; handling that box, picking it up, moving it about,
etc. did not trigger the voice.

The inside of the freezer is all plastic, so I don't think it operates
by making the contents one plate of a capacitor. My best guess is some
kind of microwave motion/prox sensor, but I'm damned if I can work out
the details.
 
I

Ico

Jan 1, 1970
0
In comp.arch.embedded larwe said:
I'm going a bit crazy trying to work out how a marketing gizmo
operates. Would appreciate any thoughts!

My local supermarket just installed a small Pillsbury promotional
freezer, roughly cube shaped, and about four feet on each side. On the
side it has the doughboy, and a word bubble that says "Hear me
giggle!". I naturally assumed there would be a microswitch on the lid
triggering a speech module, or maybe a light-gate triggering when you
reach in.

However, it's much, MUCH more subtle than that. If you open the lid,
nothing happens. The thing only giggles when you touch a product inside
the freezer. However, not ALL products trigger it. The freezer contains
mostly cinnamon buns and biscuits, which come in a foil-coated
cardboard tube with steel ends. If you touch one of the metal ends, the
giggle starts. If you touch the tube part, it might or might not start
giggling, depending on whether you touch a shiny part or a printed
part.

There happened to be a non-metallized cardboard box of frozen pastry in
the freezer also; handling that box, picking it up, moving it about,
etc. did not trigger the voice.

The inside of the freezer is all plastic, so I don't think it operates
by making the contents one plate of a capacitor. My best guess is some
kind of microwave motion/prox sensor, but I'm damned if I can work out
the details.

My $0.02: The plastic box of the freezer is inside a big coil - probably
just a few rounds of wire around the plastic container - which is part
of an oscillating circuit. Moving, adding or removing metal objects
inside the coil will detune the oscillator, which is detected and
triggers the giggle. Frozen products all have a small layer of ice on
it, which will melt instantly when touched. If you touch something
metal, the water will conduct nicely and make your body part of the
oscillator. Sounds feasible to me.
 
L

larwe

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ico said:
My $0.02: The plastic box of the freezer is inside a big coil - probably
just a few rounds of wire around the plastic container - which is part
of an oscillating circuit. Moving, adding or removing metal objects

If this is true, it would have a self-calibrating time period so it
does not keep giggling for too long when the stock level in the freezer
changes (someone restocks, or someone buys).

However, if you put your finger on a tube, it giggles continuously
until you remove your finger (I left it there 15 seconds). It stops
instantly when you remove your finger. I'll have to test what happens
when you take a product out of the box.
 
A

Arlet

Jan 1, 1970
0
larwe said:
My local supermarket just installed a small Pillsbury promotional
freezer, roughly cube shaped, and about four feet on each side. On the
side it has the doughboy, and a word bubble that says "Hear me
giggle!". I naturally assumed there would be a microswitch on the lid
triggering a speech module, or maybe a light-gate triggering when you
reach in.

However, it's much, MUCH more subtle than that. If you open the lid,
nothing happens. The thing only giggles when you touch a product inside
the freezer. However, not ALL products trigger it. The freezer contains
mostly cinnamon buns and biscuits, which come in a foil-coated
cardboard tube with steel ends. If you touch one of the metal ends, the
giggle starts. If you touch the tube part, it might or might not start
giggling, depending on whether you touch a shiny part or a printed
part.

There happened to be a non-metallized cardboard box of frozen pastry in
the freezer also; handling that box, picking it up, moving it about,
etc. did not trigger the voice.

The inside of the freezer is all plastic, so I don't think it operates
by making the contents one plate of a capacitor. My best guess is some
kind of microwave motion/prox sensor, but I'm damned if I can work out
the details.

Try putting in some other metal objects, such as keys or coins.

Also, did you play with this long enough to exclude a simple random
mechanism (like timing) that only appears to be correlated to touching
metal objects ? Our brains are excellent at picking up patterns,
sometimes even when there's just noise.
 
S

Spehro Pefhany

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'm going a bit crazy trying to work out how a marketing gizmo
operates. Would appreciate any thoughts!

My local supermarket just installed a small Pillsbury promotional
freezer, roughly cube shaped, and about four feet on each side. On the
side it has the doughboy, and a word bubble that says "Hear me
giggle!". I naturally assumed there would be a microswitch on the lid
triggering a speech module, or maybe a light-gate triggering when you
reach in.

However, it's much, MUCH more subtle than that. If you open the lid,
nothing happens. The thing only giggles when you touch a product inside
the freezer. However, not ALL products trigger it. The freezer contains
mostly cinnamon buns and biscuits, which come in a foil-coated
cardboard tube with steel ends. If you touch one of the metal ends, the
giggle starts. If you touch the tube part, it might or might not start
giggling, depending on whether you touch a shiny part or a printed
part.

There happened to be a non-metallized cardboard box of frozen pastry in
the freezer also; handling that box, picking it up, moving it about,
etc. did not trigger the voice.

The inside of the freezer is all plastic, so I don't think it operates
by making the contents one plate of a capacitor. My best guess is some
kind of microwave motion/prox sensor, but I'm damned if I can work out
the details.

Pretty much has to be capacitive, IMO. Maybe picking up (or shunting)
something with your body capacitance.

Since just putting your hand inside does not trigger it, perhaps it
has something to do with the shelves? Does touching them trigger it?


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
Try putting in some other metal objects, such as keys or coins.

Also, did you play with this long enough to exclude a simple random
mechanism (like timing) that only appears to be correlated to touching
metal objects ? Our brains are excellent at picking up patterns,
sometimes even when there's just noise.

I picked up the pattern before larwe finished the post. It's obviously
capacitive. The plastic tub is surrounded by aluminum foil (or maybe that
aluminum flashing stuff), and there's a capacitive sensor from it to
ground. You are a capacitor. When you pick up a metallized object, that
puts another capacitor in series between you and the foil surrounding the
tub.

I don't know how you calibrate a capacitance sensor that closely, and
admittedly, there were varying results - but when I was in the USAF
the "fuel quantity" guys were always talking about picofarads, so
apparently it's possible to get pretty close. And after all, all you
need is a threshold. :)

Cheers!
Rich
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
On 29 Oct 2006 10:44:21 -0800, the renowned "larwe"


Pretty much has to be capacitive, IMO. Maybe picking up (or shunting)
something with your body capacitance.

Since just putting your hand inside does not trigger it, perhaps it
has something to do with the shelves? Does touching them trigger it?

He(she?) should try just lowering, say, a pie tin into the bin. He(she?)
could borrow one in the "baking needs" section. :)

Cheers!
Rich
 
S

Spehro Pefhany

Jan 1, 1970
0
If this is true, it would have a self-calibrating time period so it
does not keep giggling for too long when the stock level in the freezer
changes (someone restocks, or someone buys).

However, if you put your finger on a tube, it giggles continuously
until you remove your finger (I left it there 15 seconds). It stops
instantly when you remove your finger. I'll have to test what happens
when you take a product out of the box.

Okay, another possibility, some kind of low level RF signal, and the
human finger/product contact introduces nonlinearity which produces
detectable harmonics.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
 
D

David Ashley

Jan 1, 1970
0
larwe said:
I'm going a bit crazy trying to work out how a marketing gizmo
operates. Would appreciate any thoughts!

My local supermarket just installed a small Pillsbury promotional
freezer, roughly cube shaped, and about four feet on each side. On the
side it has the doughboy, and a word bubble that says "Hear me
giggle!". I naturally assumed there would be a microswitch on the lid
triggering a speech module, or maybe a light-gate triggering when you
reach in.

However, it's much, MUCH more subtle than that. If you open the lid,
nothing happens. The thing only giggles when you touch a product inside
the freezer. However, not ALL products trigger it. The freezer contains
mostly cinnamon buns and biscuits, which come in a foil-coated
cardboard tube with steel ends. If you touch one of the metal ends, the
giggle starts. If you touch the tube part, it might or might not start
giggling, depending on whether you touch a shiny part or a printed
part.

There happened to be a non-metallized cardboard box of frozen pastry in
the freezer also; handling that box, picking it up, moving it about,
etc. did not trigger the voice.

The inside of the freezer is all plastic, so I don't think it operates
by making the contents one plate of a capacitor. My best guess is some
kind of microwave motion/prox sensor, but I'm damned if I can work out
the details.

Theremin used as a trigger?

-Dave
 
M

martin griffith

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'm going a bit crazy trying to work out how a marketing gizmo
operates. Would appreciate any thoughts!


Has Joerg been moonlighting again?

<sorry>




martin
 
L

larwe

Jan 1, 1970
0
Since just putting your hand inside does not trigger it, perhaps it
has something to do with the shelves? Does touching them trigger it?

There are no shelves. The freezer is just a blue plastic box with a
clear plastic lid; inside it's lined with white plastic. Product is
stacked up from the bottom; no shelves at all.
 
Could it be a camera with a computer doing some recognition? Here in
Montreal in the underground city, there are several spots where a
projector points on the ground, and if you walk over the projected
image it gets distorted only where you step, as if it were water.
It can even follow several feet and you can play this "game" where you
step on things and they float away. So it's definitely doable, even
routine.
 
L

larwe

Jan 1, 1970
0
Could it be a camera with a computer doing some recognition? Here in
Montreal in the underground city, there are several spots where a
projector points on the ground, and if you walk over the projected

I've seen this sort of thing; Toys-R-Us has something like that in
Manhattan (or did last time I was in there a few years ago; time
flies!). However there doesn't appear to be an aperture of any sort
inside the unit. There's certainly no cable running away from it except
a power cable.
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
I've seen this sort of thing; Toys-R-Us has something like that in
Manhattan (or did last time I was in there a few years ago; time
flies!). However there doesn't appear to be an aperture of any sort
inside the unit. There's certainly no cable running away from it except
a power cable.

So, grab a pie tin and lower it into the chamber without touching
anything. If it's thereminic, that should set it off.

Good Luck!
Rich
 
C

colin

Jan 1, 1970
0
larwe said:
I'm going a bit crazy trying to work out how a marketing gizmo
operates. Would appreciate any thoughts!

My local supermarket just installed a small Pillsbury promotional
freezer, roughly cube shaped, and about four feet on each side. On the
side it has the doughboy, and a word bubble that says "Hear me
giggle!". I naturally assumed there would be a microswitch on the lid
triggering a speech module, or maybe a light-gate triggering when you
reach in.

However, it's much, MUCH more subtle than that. If you open the lid,
nothing happens. The thing only giggles when you touch a product inside
the freezer. However, not ALL products trigger it. The freezer contains
mostly cinnamon buns and biscuits, which come in a foil-coated
cardboard tube with steel ends. If you touch one of the metal ends, the
giggle starts. If you touch the tube part, it might or might not start
giggling, depending on whether you touch a shiny part or a printed
part.

There happened to be a non-metallized cardboard box of frozen pastry in
the freezer also; handling that box, picking it up, moving it about,
etc. did not trigger the voice.

The inside of the freezer is all plastic, so I don't think it operates
by making the contents one plate of a capacitor. My best guess is some
kind of microwave motion/prox sensor, but I'm damned if I can work out
the details.

maybe theres a luaghing gnome inside ...
 
M

Mark McDougall

Jan 1, 1970
0
Spehro Pefhany wrote:

There's a little man in the roof over the box looking down who hits a
remote 'giggle' button every time you touch certain products, and not
others! Just to drive you insane! ;)

Regards,
 
R

rickman

Jan 1, 1970
0
larwe said:
There are no shelves. The freezer is just a blue plastic box with a
clear plastic lid; inside it's lined with white plastic. Product is
stacked up from the bottom; no shelves at all.

Can you see the bottom? How do you know there is no metal in the
bottom . If the cans have metal ends it would make sense that they are
touching a metal plate in the bottom. It sounds like you have to
actually touch something on the package that is electrically connected
to the metal ends which in turn would be touching the bottom possibly
through other cans.

I remember playing with capacity operated relays when I was a kid.
Those were the days of vacuum tubes and the circuit used a complex coil
and a triode, IIRC. I think I have seen simple circuits using a
transistor, but I don't recall the details. The basic concept is that
the human body adds a lot of capacitance when it touches the circuit,
much more than a few tins of biscuits would. So I don't see this
device needing any calibration.
 
L

larwe

Jan 1, 1970
0
rickman said:
Can you see the bottom? How do you know there is no metal in the
bottom . If the cans have metal ends it would make sense that they are

Yes, I dug down to the bottom looking for some magic. It's lined with a
one-piece vacuum-formed white plastic sheet.
 
K

krishna

Jan 1, 1970
0
cud it be some pressure sensitive stuff at places inside?
-krish
 
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