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Global Warming hits the Eastcoast !

J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ken said:
[....]

it we won't be worrying about petroleum combustion byproduct pollution,
but Helium pollution...


Fusion is getting closer. 40 years ago they said it was 30 years away and
now they tell us it is 25 years away.
That reminds me of the blurbs by Chrysler Corp. in the 60s gas turbin
cars were 10 years away in the 70s they were 10 years away, I'm not
sure wether they gave an estimate in the 80s or not but if they had
I'm sure it would have been 10 years away. :)
...lew...

Chrysler made a small number of them (something like 50). Apparently
bad fuel economy was an issue (even back then when an Imperial got 10
or 12 miles to the US gallon).

As a kid, I had a model kit of this engineering wonder:
http://www.lhmopars.com/MOPAR_Ads/Turbine_page6-7.jpg

Come to think of it, it probably inspired the TV-series Batmobile.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

There was also a big deceleration issue... take foot off accelerator
pedal and no significant back torque.

...Jim Thompson
 
S

Spehro Pefhany

Jan 1, 1970
0
That reminds me of the blurbs by Chrysler Corp. in the 60s gas turbin
cars were 10 years away in the 70s they were 10 years away, I'm not
sure wether they gave an estimate in the 80s or not but if they had
I'm sure it would have been 10 years away. :)
...lew...

Chrysler made a small number of them (something like 50). Apparently
bad fuel economy was an issue (even back then when an Imperial got 10
or 12 miles to the US gallon).

As a kid, I had a model kit of this engineering wonder:
http://www.lhmopars.com/MOPAR_Ads/Turbine_page6-7.jpg

Come to think of it, it probably inspired the TV-series Batmobile.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
 
J

John Fields

Jan 1, 1970
0
There was also a big deceleration issue... take foot off accelerator
pedal and no significant back torque.

---
That's generally how automatic transmissions work, asshole.

Push on the gas pedal to go, let it go to coast, and push on the
brake pedal to stop.

Get your wife to clue you in on how to drive, if she'll dare to.
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ken Smith wrote:
[....]

it we won't be worrying about petroleum combustion byproduct pollution,
but Helium pollution...


Fusion is getting closer. 40 years ago they said it was 30 years away and
now they tell us it is 25 years away.

That reminds me of the blurbs by Chrysler Corp. in the 60s gas turbin
cars were 10 years away in the 70s they were 10 years away, I'm not
sure wether they gave an estimate in the 80s or not but if they had
I'm sure it would have been 10 years away. :)
...lew...

Chrysler made a small number of them (something like 50). Apparently
bad fuel economy was an issue (even back then when an Imperial got 10
or 12 miles to the US gallon).

As a kid, I had a model kit of this engineering wonder:
http://www.lhmopars.com/MOPAR_Ads/Turbine_page6-7.jpg

Come to think of it, it probably inspired the TV-series Batmobile.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

There was also a big deceleration issue... take foot off accelerator
pedal and no significant back torque.

...Jim Thompson

It's amazing that the basic auto engine hasn't really changed in
almost 100 years: crank, cam, pistons, rings, poppet valves, spark
plug, pressure-fed plain bearings, geared transmission.

John
 
M

Mark Zenier

Jan 1, 1970
0
The SUN is getting warmer. We feel that. Mt. St. Helens dumps 100's of tons
of S02 into the air each year - far exceeding cars and power plants of
the region.

That is not true. There were reports in the local paper in the last
year or two listing the major emitters in the area, and the emissions
of Mt. St. Helens were about the same as the coal powered electrical
generator at Tono (Centralia).

Mark Zenier [email protected]
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
---
That's generally how automatic transmissions work, asshole.

Push on the gas pedal to go, let it go to coast, and push on the
brake pedal to stop.

Get your wife to clue you in on how to drive, if she'll dare to.


Try going down a really long grade in neutral. The last thing you'll
smell will be brake linings. My kid fried the brakes and warped the
rotors on her new automatic Toyota at 3000 miles; she has friends in
Pacifica and I forgot to tell her about downshifting.

There are federal regulations that mandate a minimum decel rate for
automatic trannies.

John
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 23:52:13 GMT, the renowned Lew Hartswick

Ken Smith wrote:
[....]

it we won't be worrying about petroleum combustion byproduct pollution,
but Helium pollution...


Fusion is getting closer. 40 years ago they said it was 30 years away and
now they tell us it is 25 years away.

That reminds me of the blurbs by Chrysler Corp. in the 60s gas turbin
cars were 10 years away in the 70s they were 10 years away, I'm not
sure wether they gave an estimate in the 80s or not but if they had
I'm sure it would have been 10 years away. :)
...lew...

Chrysler made a small number of them (something like 50). Apparently
bad fuel economy was an issue (even back then when an Imperial got 10
or 12 miles to the US gallon).

As a kid, I had a model kit of this engineering wonder:
http://www.lhmopars.com/MOPAR_Ads/Turbine_page6-7.jpg

Come to think of it, it probably inspired the TV-series Batmobile.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

There was also a big deceleration issue... take foot off accelerator
pedal and no significant back torque.

...Jim Thompson

It's amazing that the basic auto engine hasn't really changed in
almost 100 years: crank, cam, pistons, rings, poppet valves, spark
plug, pressure-fed plain bearings, geared transmission.

John

Ol' Henry Ford the 1st was a pretty sharp ol' geezer ;-)

In my first years working with Ford (early '60's) I met a number of
Ford employees who had either worked for Henry the 1st or had a father
who did.

...Jim Thompson
 
D

Don Klipstein

Jan 1, 1970
0
The name "climate change" came about when they suddenly realized they
didn't know shit ;-)

I still see "global warming" more than "climate change" as terms that
are used, despite the prospect of one effect being temporary cooling of
some polar areas that are currently warmed by ocean currents.

There is this negative feedback mechanism that is supposed to result
from icecap melting, where less-dense water from icecap meltoff (compared
to seawater) slows ocean currents that warm the polar areas. This means
that some polar areas receiving warmth from ocean currents get colder
rather than warmer when icecaps are getting melted.

Another thing: Some concern that this mechanism is oscillatory. If
this mechanism is not oscillatory, the most it can do is slow down icecap
melting. If it is oscillatory, there is some chance it can halt or
reverse icecap melting unless/until greenhouse gas emissions warm the
planet to the state it was in at a time 2-4 hundred million or so years
ago when much of the carbon that is now or was recently tied up in
fossil fuels was in atnospheric CO2 before much of the fossil fuels were
formed.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])
 
D

Don Klipstein

Jan 1, 1970
0
Something on the order of what natural sources regularly (and
irregularly) produce. The irregular events I consider more worrisome as
the overall environment has a better chance of coping with relatively
slower changes; we ramp up our CO2 production over decades, the
biosphere adjusts to utilize it. A volcano blows off ten times as much
in one hour and there's no immediate place for it to go. Homeostasis (in
this case meaning staying on the "natural" attractor that determines our
climate) is a lot easier to maintain when the individual elements of the
system have adequate time to react to changes by sequestering excesses
of any resource, and Earth's biosphere has gotten very good at that.

Actually I worry less about rapid volcanic CO2 releases than things
like deep-ocean methane ice blowoffs. A seaquake releases a few cubic
kilometers of that in say an hour upwind of a populated coast and the
population is non-trivially screwed. This is not alarmist fantasy, it's
actually happened in large, deep inland lakes, killing every
air-breather for kilometers around. That was estimated to be from on the
order of a few cubic _meters_ of methane ice.

No, that was from at least a goodly fraction of a cubic KM of deeper
lake water becoming supersaturated with CO2 from known sources thereof.
A few cubic meters of solid methane will not make deadly the atmosphere
over 10's-plus square km of land, and where on Earth's surface or in or
adjacent to any body of water does one find methane ice?

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])
 
D

Don Klipstein

Jan 1, 1970
0
Keith wrote: said:

A classic rock song, but I consider lousy! A "Moldy Oldie"!

Boring as (#e!!)!

But keep in mind a weather pattern:

(Lake)"Superior it's been said"
"Never gives up it's dead" (body count?)
"when the winds of November...
blow early!"

Makes me think of a somewhat tyoical big upper-Midwest storm that I
consider fairly usual for approach to winter when QBO is westerly but El
Nino is lacking.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])
 
D

Don Klipstein

Jan 1, 1970
0
The SUN is getting warmer.

Fraction of watt p0er square meter out of 1370?
We feel that. Mt. St. Helens dumps 100's of tons of S02 into the air
each year - far exceeding cars and power plants of the region.

100's of tons is nothing, and I have yet to hear of SO2 as a major gas
to affect worldwide surface-level atmosphere temperature in either
direction...
The little one in the Philippines cooled the earth by 1 degree

http://www.realclimate.org/ indicates no single volcanic eruption in
recent history did so much, and mentions pklenty of studies...
by dumping more crap into the air than all trucks, cars, motorcycles and
... of all time. Far worse than many thought at the time - but remember
it was a colder year and the stars were colored.....

I surely remember hearing about "Year without a summer" and it was a
cold year worldwide but apparently hitting North America and maybe some
parts of western Europe especially hard...
And I look at http://www.realclimate.org/, and my thoughts are now -
which volcanic eruption and what year? I went through that website before
and saw lots of cites, with many for the many various traces through their
composite graph!
Looks like no recent volcanic eruption holds a candle to the
few-centuries-ago "Little Ice Age" that by only a minority of accounts was
colder than the "Baseline" of 1950-1980 than we are now or expected to be
experiencing within a year?
The oilfields that burned in IRAQ and the triangle area of Kuwait put
black soot around the world.

More like put out black soot that caught some blame for one weak monsoon
in/near India and some significant bit of Middle East having its worst
winter of the past few decades.
The UK was a very dusty place to live in for many years. Now cleaner,
how about more.

UK dusty? Cite?

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])
 
J

Jonathan Kirwan

Jan 1, 1970
0
No, that was from at least a goodly fraction of a cubic KM of deeper
lake water becoming supersaturated with CO2 from known sources thereof.
A few cubic meters of solid methane will not make deadly the atmosphere
over 10's-plus square km of land, and where on Earth's surface or in or
adjacent to any body of water does one find methane ice?

Perhaps clathrates. Methane clathrate isn't frozen methane, but
methane trapped within the frozen 6-H2O 3D ring. Significant
quantities were first discovered circa 1979 and have since been shown
to be quite substantial, representing perhaps 4-6 orders of magnitude
more methane trapped in this form than currently exist in the
atmosphere.

The probability of escaping the ring is highly non-linear versus
temperature. There was an event off of Norway a long time ago. Look
up "Storegga Norway methane clathrate" or jump over to:
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=227
for some information.

A simulation was done:
http://www.storegga.no/museum/nystoreggabolge.mpg

Jon
 
K

Ken Smith

Jan 1, 1970
0
Struck bottom in 530 feet of water? There is a guess that it had struck a
shoal earlier, causing bottom damage but no proof.

The "shoal strike" is what I was referring to. I'd heard that there was
evidence that the bottom had a hole in it.

[....]
The official report concluded that the spine didn't break until it hit
bottom (the fore and aft sections are too close together). The hatches
are quite suspect though. The reports are quite controversial though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Edmund_Fitzgerald

Who you going to believe, some random person who wrote in wikipedia or
someone who has the song on CD?
 
K

Ken Smith

Jan 1, 1970
0
Don Klipstein said:
(Lake)"Superior it's been said"
"Never gives up it's dead" (body count?)

The water is about 35F. If the wind is offshore, the bodies don't bloat
and float to the surface.
 
D

Don Klipstein

Jan 1, 1970
0
In said:
Looks like no recent volcanic eruption holds a candle to the
few-centuries-ago "Little Ice Age" that by only a minority of accounts was
colder than the "Baseline" of 1950-1980 than we are now or expected to be
experiencing within a year?

I meant to say:

Looks like no recent volcanic eruption holds a candle to the
few-centuries-ago "Little Ice Age" following the "medieval warm
period" that by only a minority of accounts was much warmer than the
"Baseline" of 1950-1980, let alone what we are now or expected to
be experiencing within a year.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])
 
K

Keith Williams

Jan 1, 1970
0
Keith wrote: said:
[...]
Don't forget the Edmund Fitzgerald; it is thought that it sank due to
a methane ice blowoff.
Its still a great song however.

Indeed.

A classic rock song, but I consider lousy! A "Moldy Oldie"!

Boring as (#e!!)!

No accounting for taste.
But keep in mind a weather pattern:

(Lake)"Superior it's been said"
"Never gives up it's dead" (body count?)
"when the winds of November...
blow early!"

There is no apostrophe in its (possesive of "it", not a contraction
of "it is"). ;-)
Makes me think of a somewhat tyoical big upper-Midwest storm that I
consider fairly usual for approach to winter when QBO is westerly but El
Nino is lacking.

That was precisely the point. Superior is a bitch in the winter,
(which perhaps came a bit early in '75). ...and even the injuns
knew it.
 
G

Gunner

Jan 1, 1970
0
I meant to say:

Looks like no recent volcanic eruption holds a candle to the
few-centuries-ago "Little Ice Age" following the "medieval warm
period" that by only a minority of accounts was much warmer than the
"Baseline" of 1950-1980, let alone what we are now or expected to
be experiencing within a year.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])

Which was caused by the internal combustion engine..the Little Ice
Age or the subsequent Medieval Warm?

Gunner



"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3
 
G

Gunner

Jan 1, 1970
0
I meant to say:

Looks like no recent volcanic eruption holds a candle to the
few-centuries-ago "Little Ice Age" following the "medieval warm
period" that by only a minority of accounts was much warmer than the
"Baseline" of 1950-1980, let alone what we are now or expected to
be experiencing within a year.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])


Hummm..on second thought..it must have been all the CFCs from spray
cans and refridgerators

Gunner



"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3
 
D

Don Klipstein

Jan 1, 1970
0
There is no apostrophe in its (possesive of "it", not a contraction
of "it is"). ;-)

One of a few typos that night... I normally don't commit that one!
The day was windy and the temperature took a big drop and after 50 miles
on the bike it was time for some BEvERages!

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])
 
T

Tom Quackenbush

Jan 1, 1970
0
Keith said:
don says...

There is no apostrophe in its (possesive of "it", not a contraction
of "it is"). ;-)
<snip>

"It's" in the case above is a contraction of "it has".

I think that the actual lyrics are:

[first verse]
"The lake, it is said, never gives up her dead
When the skies of November turn gloomy."

[last verse]
"Superior, they said, never gives up her dead
When the gales of November come early!"

R,
Tom Q.
 
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