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Global Warming and thermometers

Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by amdx, Sep 11, 2013.

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  1. amdx

    amdx Guest

    From the International Journal of Climatology.

    New paper finds that aging weather stations record much higher daytime
    temperatures, 1.63°C higher than new stations, which by way of
    comparison is more than twice the global warming of 0.7°C recorded since
    the end of the Little Ice Age in 1850.


    http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/new-paper-finds-that-aging-weather.html

    If you have access to the International Journal of Climatology or
    Wiley, look here.

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/joc.2013.33.issue-7/issuetoc

    Mikek
     
  2. Guest

    And then we have :

    http://www.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/m...y-did-arctic-ice-cap-grow-920000-square-miles
    Having a look around the page it seems to have a rupubican slant, but it's pretty hard to lie about almost a million square miles. Of ocurse they didn't mention the thickness of the ice.......
     
  3. Wymsey

    Wymsey Guest

    It's easy to lie about anything and there will always be some who believe
    it. The people behind that quote are the MRC - just another right wing
    organisation trying to appear objective "MRC’s sole mission is to expose
    and neutralize the propaganda arm of the Left: the national news media.
    This makes the MRC’s work unique within the conservative movement." says
    their website (http://www.mrc.org/static/about-us). These guys make me
    laugh, they have no idea what left wing or liberal mean - still as long
    as they stay in Virginia!
     
  4. amdx

    amdx Guest

    Hope you're wrong mixing cold fusion in there.
    But then there was name change, Low Energy Nuclear Reaction.

    Mikek
     
  5. don't think I've seen noticed any "taste-like butter" here, margarine sure but not that claim to be anything like butter

    as far as I'm concerned real butter is pretty required if you want really
    good food, though I'm not a big fan of American butter

    but we do have several types of a mix of about 75% butter and 25% vegetableoil
    taste pretty much the same but it is easy spreadable on a piece of bread straight from the fridge
    didn't they recently realize that for most people low sodium is pretty
    much just as bad as high sodium

    we even have a version with coarse sea salt, it's yummy :)

    -Lasse
     
  6. Bill Sloman

    Bill Sloman Guest

    John Larkin's aspirations to prophecy aren't exactly convincing.

    And it isn't "sad" that climatology is permeated by politics, but inevitable, granting that the scientific facts strongly suggest that we should slow down our digging up and burning of fossil carbon for fuel, while the peoplewho are making a lot of money out of this activity want to keep on doing it.

    There are well-established techniques for using money to diffuse the political impact of scientific facts, and it's no surprise that some of the people who told you that smoking didn't really damage your health are now telling us that CO2 isn't really warming up the planet.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchants_of_Doubt

    Eugenics has now become genetic counselling, cold fusion and polywater wererapidly recognised as mistakes, and phrenology - like 90% of the "nutrition science" on offer - was a pseudo-scientific fad that grew out of real scientific advance. We all know about Broca's area in the brain and Wernicke'sarea, as we know about vitamins and essential trace elements (like iodine)..

    In reality it's denialism that's going to be seen in the future as a shameful event in the history of capitalism, like the persistent unwillingness ofthe tobacco industry to recognise the damage their product was doing to the people who bought it.

    Since quite a few people - those less gullible than John Larkin - already perceive this, this shouldn't be regarded as a prophecy.
     
  7. whit3rd

    whit3rd Guest

    Interesting, but unimportant.
    Ground-based weather stations are a useful worldwide network regardless
    of calibration (i.e. predictable, systematic, repeatable) issues.
    Global climate modeling is of the WHOLE ATMOSPHERE, most of
    which is a mile away, vertically, from those ground-based weather boxes.

    No one has been blindly following the ground-station numbers.
    No one has been getting anything wrong because of near-ground
    temperature measurement difficulties.

    There's been cross-checking of near-ground temperatures against other
    thermometers for centuries. Maybe longer.

    Thanks for the reference, I'll try to look it up (and any serious replies).In future,
    though, try to include date and author; is the article under discussion
    "Sensors and the City: ..."? That's a REVIEW article, is just a compilation
    of well-known info from many old sources. Nothing new there.
     
  8. Guest

    To biggies: ALR and the king of them all DDT.
     
  9. Bill Sloman

    Bill Sloman Guest

    It wasn't bad calorimetry as such, but something odd happening when you electrolysed heavy water with high surface area palladium electrodes.

    You could store a lot of energy in the palladium until some threshold was exceeded, when it all came out rapidly, messing up the calorimetry. People seem to have replicated that effect - if not in a controlled way - and it's pretty clear that nuclear fusion wasn't what was going on. My guess would be some sort of switch between palladium crystal structures (as you see whenyou get tin cold enough, not that there's much energy involved there).

    Of course, if it were that simple, someone would have long since documentedthe effect and published.

    Some chemists are bad at any experimental technique you care to specify, just as some physicists produce rotten electronics. It's as silly to write off the whole profession as it would be to assume that all physicists are as good with electronics as Phil Hobbs.
     
  10. Ecnerwal

    Ecnerwal Guest

    Gosh, really? I'm shocked, just shocked... ;-)
    And exactly _where_ was the ice in 2012? - at a VERY low level. So low
    that a "60% increase" is not really all that impressive. It's all in how
    you cherry-pick which "truth" you tell about the amount of ice, de-ah.
    If you can find one that extends to this year and shows both poles, I'd
    be happier with it, but this is what I could find that shows the
    Northern ice over a longer term, including the 2012 minimum.

     
  11. Martin Brown

    Martin Brown Guest

    In a couple of decades or so it will become perfectly clear that the
    climatologists *were* telling the truth and paranoid lying dittoheads
    were spreading deliberate disinformation. Think of that next time
    Florida Keys, New Orleans or New York next suffer horrendous flooding
    from a storm surges combined with accelerating rising sea levels.

    The reason you only find contrary research in paranoid rightwing rags is
    that none of it would pass basic peer review for the science!
    AGW research will eventually prove more or less correct and the lying
    rabid right wing dittoheads will be shown for exactly what they are.
    Cold fusion was a genuine mistake by two reputable electrochemists who
    rushed into print with what turned out to be dodgy calorimetry. For a
    while at least it looked like it might be genuine and the setup so
    trivial that you could not buy Pd or heavy water for months afterwards!

    Unfortunately the only cold fusion that actually works is the muon
    catalysed version (first catch your muon). It was this work that
    "forced" Pons & Fleischmann into premature publication.

    LENR & eCat are more walks like a duck quacks like a duck conmen. When
    he demonstrates something that actually works in front of independent
    scientific researchers instead of lame sycophants and cronies I will
    take it seriously. Until then it is just more expensive snake oil.
     
  12. Martin Brown

    Martin Brown Guest

    Do you have something against Abbey Light Railways?
    Or Automated Lip Reading?

    DDT was an incredibly double edged sword right from the outset.

    It had been synthesised many decades before Muller spotted its potency
    as an insecticide. In WWII the secrecy surrounding its manufacture
    convinced Nazi intelligence that the allies also had also discovered
    nerve agents. This made them think twice about loading their V weapons
    with anything other than HE. They had Sarin and Tabun in quantity.

    DDT is incredibly well tolerated in mammals but extremely bad for fish,
    birds and their eggs particularly the top predators like raptors. It was
    a good insecticide that was relatively safe to humans and as a result
    massively and irresponsibly overused worldwide.

    The benefits of killing malaria and typhus vectors was ultimately
    squandered by overuse and population selection by the time a ban was
    imposed. The buildup of DDT in the environment and storage in fatty
    tissue means that humans from a particular heavily exposed era are
    technically on a ppb w/w basis "not fit for human consumption"
    (using modern ultratrace analytical techniques it is easily detected)
     
  13. Hi Mike, I know nothing I say will convince you. But cold fusion is bunk.
    Unfortunately there are still people trying to make it fly.

    We received a letter the other day from someone trying to put cold fusion
    (now called "condensed matter nuclear science") into the physics teaching labs. There was a long 23 page letter. But I was hard pressed to find any physics in it. It was all "huff and puff".
    "We are working with X and Y universities, we have Z number of peer reviewed papers, and W number of patents..." I don't know how he went on for 23 pages without saying anything. If there had been one nice graph that showedsome effect, and that students could reproduce... Well physics lab 'guys' would be all over it. New science is fun, lotsa people would like to do it.. (I'd like to do it.) But I'm not going to waste my time on cold fusion.There's just nothing there.

    George H.
     
  14. Bill Sloman

    Bill Sloman Guest

    But anthropogenic global warming is apparently making "extreme weather" more frequent. Higher global temperatures means more water vapour in the air, which means more stored latent energy of vapourisation to drive hurricanes and the like. It's a statistically significant effect.

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com....-severe-storm-climate-change-weather-science/
    AGW is making more extreme storms more likely. Martin Brown didn't blame the current flooding event on sea level rise, but was pointing out that future sea level rise is likely to make it worse.

    We don't really know how the Greenland ice cap is going to behave as the climate gets warmer. It's easy enough to predict how long it would take to melt if it stayed stuck on top of Greenland, but the Laurentian ice cap on top of Northern Canada didn't melt in place at the end of the last ice age, but slid off into the Atlantic, dumping boulders - erratics and drop-stones - on the bottom of the Atlantic ocean a long way south of the then ice cap.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glacial_erratic

    Life could get interesting if that happened to the Greenland ice cap. Some blame the Younger Dryas on that kind if large-scale ice movement. Somebody made a film about an imagined modern re-run of the Younger Dryas recently ....
     
  15. Guest

    Except, like AGW, there was no science behind it and people die.
    More BS.
     
  16. Bill Sloman

    Bill Sloman Guest

    DDT value was determined by systematic observation - which is scientific - so we have just been reminded = once again, that krw is the sort of nitwit who gives ignorance a bad name.
    True, but interesting none-the-less.
    It's certainly not BS - in fact it is a pretty good precis of Rachel Carson's "Silent Spring", which was the very antithesis of BS.
    Granting krw's well-known ignorance and stupidity, it may well be BS to him. Better-informed readers - 99.9% of the population - will recognise it as a brief, accurate and focused exposition.

    Krw is diligent in characterising himself as ill-informed character with very limited intellectual powers. I - for one - would be happier if he were less diligent.
     
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