Maker Pro
Maker Pro

Glass breaks again...

R

Robert L. Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
Norm:
You have obviously not dealt with anyone
that's an orthodox Jew. Do a Google. On
the Sabbath they're not supposed to push
any buttons or use electricity (can't disarm
their home security system, dial the phone
or even turn on a light switch).

The same applies to certain holy days. One thing that makes the job more
complex is that the Orthodox calendar is not the same as ours. Every year
the holiday dates need to be reprogrammed. Napco makes this a bit easier by
providing a "holiday schedule" in their downloader. I kept a separate
sub-directory for Orthodox homes and synagogues. Each year I would change
the dates for each account and then download the changes. Also, rather than
adjust activities to match sunset every day the custom is to assign an
"official" sunset time several times a year. We changed the times using
Napco's event timer table periodically to keep the systems in tune with
their requirements.

I've had a few Orthodox DIY customers contact me over the years that I've
been selling online. Most really appreciate being able to automate the
alarm system to make it compliant with Jewish observances.

If any dealers (except Mugford, of course) want to learn how to configure a
Napco system for Orthodox clients, feel free to contact me. It's not all
that complicated but you need to set up certain scheduled sequences to avoid
causing false alarms using the auto-arm and auto-bypass features. Although
Napco makes it significantly easier to accomplish this it can also be done
using other systems.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
 
N

Norm Mugford

Jan 1, 1970
0
Why should I learn anything about Napco....I'm not a
Napco Dealer, nor do I service Napco Equipment.
When a customer wants us to take over a Napco system,
we swap it out for something that we know.

IMHO when Napco tried years ago (1995-96) to get me to use thier
products, (and I was certified on several of them, including the
3000) they failed to back it up with tech or sales support.

Mr. Bass wrote:

"Another "professional" contribution to the security newsgroup from the vice
chair of the Florida ECLB. Nice wirk, Mr. Mugford".

Thank-You Mr. Bass...now learn how to spell!

Norm Mugford
 
L

Larry

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ok - thanks everyone for your comments.

They only want glassbreaks active while they're sleeping and away from
home. I think this is an opportunity to try the FG-1525's. I'll let
everyone know how this works out in a year or so...
 
R

Robert L. Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
Why should I learn anything about Napco....I'm not a
Napco Dealer, nor do I service Napco Equipment.

You chose to make statements about Napco but you now admit you know nothing
about their systems. Interesting.
When a customer wants us to take over a Napco system,
we swap it out for something that we know.

Presumably Tandy Corp is delighted to know that.
IMHO when Napco tried years ago (1995-96)
to get me to use thier products, (and I was
certified on several of them, including the
3000) they failed to back it up with tech or
sales support.

Hmm. Certified on the MA-3000 yet you have no knowledge of the RB-3008
programmable relay board? How did you manage to get certified without
learning the components?
Mr. Bass wrote:

"Another "professional" contribution to the security newsgroup from the
vice
chair of the Florida ECLB. Nice wirk, Mr. Mugford".

Thank-You Mr. Bass...now learn how to spell!

Norm Mugford

I can spell. I just can't tpye. :^)
 
R

Robert L. Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
Good choice, Larry but you might also want to consider using the newer
FG-1625 series.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
 
M

Mark Leuck

Jan 1, 1970
0
Frank Olson said:
Norm:

You have obviously not dealt with anyone that's an orthodox Jew. Do a
Google. On the Sabbath they're not supposed to push any buttons or use
electricity (can't disarm their home security system, dial the phone or even
turn on a light switch).

Bet thats hell on false alarms
 
C

coord

Jan 1, 1970
0
Mark Leuck said:
Bet thats hell on false alarms
True story but I can't find a url...a home in a jewish section of Brooklyn burnt down early
Monday...the oven was believed to have been left on for almost 3 days due to the Sabbath...
 
R

Robert L. Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
Mark Leuck said:
Bet thats hell on false alarms

I designed these systems so that motion and glass break detectors were not
only bypassed during holidays and Sabbaths. They were powered down. Only
perimeter sensors (magnetic contacts), smokes and heats (including 194
degree RORs in the attics:)) were active. This arrangement caused very few
false alarms as Sentrol contacts almost never fail.

As the family prepared to leave for synagogue on Saturday morning or during
holy days, a relay would bypass the "shabbos door" which was usually in the
kitchen, allowing them to leave without disarming the rest of the perimeter.
A red LED on a plate near the door would light when the door was armed. A
green LED would light when the door was bypassed.

After sunset the system would disarm, relays would restore power to PIR's
and glass breaks. The door shabbos would return to normal. A small sounder
(MA2 usually) would ring for 5 seconds, warning that the system was
restoring to full protection. Two minutes after that the system would
disarm and then re-arm. If anyone was home they could enter a code to stop
the arming sequence.

Each installation was different from the next. Some families didn't want
the system to auto-arm. Others wanted to be able to arm the system by phone
or modem. Napco's Wizard is an interactive phone module which allows remote
system check and arm/disarm control. The Quickloader software, a DOS app in
those days, provided modem control.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
 
R

Robert L. Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
True story but I can't find a url...a home in a
Jewish section of Brooklyn burnt down early Monday...the oven was believed
to have
been left on for almost 3 days due to the
Sabbath...

It was an apartment but basically you're right. Here are news stories on
it:
http://cbsnewyork.com/topstories/topstoriesny_story_115110829.html
http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=9&aid=50349

Interestingly, the Orthodox can operate a gas stove during yom tov (holiday)
and shabbos as long as there is a pilot light. Electronic igniters are not
to be used. The reason is that Jewish law prohibits starting a fire or
extinguishing one (except to save a life) during these times. If there's a
pilot light the stove can be operated without violating law.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
 
N

Norm Mugford

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert L. Bass said:
You chose to make statements about Napco but you now admit you know nothing
about their systems. Interesting.


Presumably Tandy Corp is delighted to know that.


Hmm. Certified on the MA-3000 yet you have no knowledge of the RB-3008
programmable relay board? How did you manage to get certified without
learning the components?


I can spell. I just can't tpye. :^)

Show me Mr. Bass where I made a statement about Napco.
Other than....

Why should I learn anything about Napco....I'm not a
Napco Dealer, nor do I service Napco Equipment.
When a customer wants us to take over a Napco system,
we swap it out for something that we know.

IMHO when Napco tried years ago (1995-96) to get me to use thier
products, (and I was certified on several of them, including the
3000) they failed to back it up with tech or sales support.

Norm Mugford
 
N

Norm Mugford

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert L. Bass said:
You chose to make statements about Napco but you now admit you know nothing
about their systems. Interesting.


Presumably Tandy Corp is delighted to know that.


Hmm. Certified on the MA-3000 yet you have no knowledge of the RB-3008
programmable relay board? How did you manage to get certified without
learning the components?


I can spell. I just can't tpye. :^)

You ask, how did I get certified Mr. Bass, without learning the components.

Read the rest of my comment, for the answer.

"IMHO when Napco tried years ago (1995-96)
to get me to use thier products, (and I was
certified on several of them, including the
3000) they failed to back it up with tech or
sales support".

Norm Mugford
 
R

Robert L. Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
When a customer wants us to take over a Napco system,
You were nere certified on *several* Napco systems. Napco's tech support
has always been excellent. The only sales support I ever needed from a
manufacturer is good product and decent end user literature. Napco has done
admirably in both respects.

You stated that you routinely replace Napco with stuff you know. The
implication is that you do not know Napco, else why spend your customer's
money replacing perfectly good hardware? If you're just ripping your
clients off that would explain your statement. I'll give you the benefit of
the doubt and accept the obvious intent of your comment which is that you
simply don't understand Napco.
You ask, how did I get certified Mr. Bass,
without learning the components.

You're the one who said you replace Napco with brands you know. That seems
to pretty clearly indicate you know little or nothing about Napco. Your
comments here back that up.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
 
N

Norm Mugford

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert L. Bass said:
You were nere certified on *several* Napco systems. Napco's tech support
has always been excellent. The only sales support I ever needed from a
manufacturer is good product and decent end user literature. Napco has done
admirably in both respects.


You stated that you routinely replace Napco with stuff you know. The
implication is that you do not know Napco, else why spend your customer's
money replacing perfectly good hardware? If you're just ripping your
clients off that would explain your statement. I'll give you the benefit of
the doubt and accept the obvious intent of your comment which is that you
simply don't understand Napco.


You're the one who said you replace Napco with brands you know. That seems
to pretty clearly indicate you know little or nothing about Napco. Your
comments here back that up.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

Who said that I charged my customers anything to replace thier
Napco equipment. I replace Napco with equipment I know,
to better serve my customers, period. It's how I do business,
Mr. Bass.

You may think I do not understand Napco, that's not what
my point was. I said I had concerns with their tech & sales support.
They failed to demonstrate to me that they could support my
customers or my company. If a vendor wants my money,
they have to support the products they sell, period.

I had the same problem with in the late 90's with Caddx.
We put in over 200 in less than a year, and tech support could not
address my concerns about invalid signals coming from NX6 & NX8
panels. All verified by caller ID. (I believe they have rectified the
problem since). I won't put in another Caddx system because of that.
(We do continue to serve our existing Caddx accounts, though).

In the mid 90's we had problems with ESL smoke detectors. A factory
recall caused our company to replace over 150 smokes on one job.
Never mind all the false alarms, labor costs, headaches, etc.
When ADI failed to notify us that there was a recall, we called
directly to the manufacturer and were informed by them that the
recall was noticed to ADI almost two months earlier.
We stopped using ESL equipment and we stopped all transactions
with ADI. That's how we do business.

Almost five years later we rekindled our relationship with ADI.
They are a great supporter of the alarm industry on a national
as well as state wide basis. And, we all benefit from that.

Norm Mugford
 
R

Robert L. Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
Who said that I charged my customers anything to replace thier
Napco equipment. I replace Napco with equipment I know,
to better serve my customers, period. It's how I do business,
Mr. Bass.

Oh, now I get it. You replace Napco systems which you say you know with
something else which you say you know to better serve your customers and you
do this for free. It's a good thing you don't know more or you'd have to
replace all your systems again -- at no charge -- to better serve your
customer (of course). Uh-huh, sure. Do you also sell bridges?
You may think I do not understand Napco,
that's not what my point was...

It seems pretty clear to me. You understand Napco so you replace it with
something else which you know. Uh-huh.
I said I had concerns with their tech & sales support.

Suuure, you do. Right. :^)
They failed to demonstrate to me that they
could support my customers or my company...

More likely you ran across an MA-3000, couldn't understand the manual and
gave up. You should have called me. I could have one of my DIYers teach
you the ropes. The Napco panels aren't that difficult to understand once
you get started. I've installed hundreds of them and I've sold thousands
more to DIYers. BTW, I also sell Ademco, ITI, DSC (if someone really
insists on it), Caddx, Paradox and several other brands. None of them has
been difficult for DIYers, including the Napco P9600, MA-3000, Ademco
Vista-128FB, etc.
If a vendor wants my money, they have to
support the products they sell, period.

Same here. I have no problem getting tech support from any of these
manufacturers, including Napco. I wonder why it is you failed. Perhaps it
was your charm, winning personality and tact. :^)
I had the same problem with in the late
90's with Caddx.

It must get expensive replacing all these brands with something you know.
We put in over 200 in less than a year...

I sell more than that in a month. Maybe if you sold more product they'd be
more inclined to help you out when you don't understand the products.
In the mid 90's we had problems with ESL
smoke detectors...

Whoops! So much for GE. It's a good thing you can still count on Tandy.
A factory recall caused our company to
replace over 150 smokes on one job.

Suuure, you did.
Never mind all the false alarms, labor costs,
headaches, etc. When ADI failed to notify
us that there was a recall, we called directly
to the manufacturer and were informed by
them that the recall was noticed to ADI
almost two months earlier...

That's strange. I get recall notices directly from manufacturers *and* from
ADI. I wonder why none of them is willing to help you out.
We stopped using ESL equipment and we
stopped all transactions with ADI. That's
how we do business.

Oh, really! You stopped doing business with ADI, did you? Heh, heh, heh...
:^)
Almost five years later we rekindled our
relationship with ADI. They are a great
supporter of the alarm industry on a national
as well as state wide basis. And, we all
benefit from that.

Hmm. First, they were so bad that you dropped them. Now they're a great
support for the alarm industry and you love them? What happened? You went
back to ADI when AFY went belly up? Radio Shack refused to give you tech
support?

I've found ADI overall to be helpful, courteous and honorable. Staff
occasionally make mistakes, such as shipping the wrong item, but they will
replace it, send a call tag and not charge for doing so (only fair, I
think). They give great prices if you do enough volume, too.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
 
M

Mark Leuck

Jan 1, 1970
0
Norm Mugford said:
I had the same problem with in the late 90's with Caddx.
We put in over 200 in less than a year, and tech support could not
address my concerns about invalid signals coming from NX6 & NX8
panels. All verified by caller ID. (I believe they have rectified the
problem since). I won't put in another Caddx system because of that.
(We do continue to serve our existing Caddx accounts, though).

In almost 10 years I've yet to see an invalid signal from a Caddx panel
unless someone screwed up the zone reporting code
In the mid 90's we had problems with ESL smoke detectors. A factory
recall caused our company to replace over 150 smokes on one job.
Never mind all the false alarms, labor costs, headaches, etc.
When ADI failed to notify us that there was a recall, we called
directly to the manufacturer and were informed by them that the
recall was noticed to ADI almost two months earlier.
We stopped using ESL equipment and we stopped all transactions
with ADI. That's how we do business.

I could see not dealing with ADI again but why ESL? They did notify about
the recall
 
J

Joe

Jan 1, 1970
0
Crash said:
I don't think my clients would be smart enough to understand that arrangement!

If you use panels with a "night-stay" option that would be another way
to do the same thing
 
R

Robert L. Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
Norm Mugford said:
In almost 10 years I've yet to see an invalid
signal from a Caddx panel unless someone
screwed up the zone reporting code..

Are you implying that our own vice chair of the Florida ECLB might actually
have screwed up the programming on a panel??? Perish the thought... :^)
I could see not dealing with ADI again but
why ESL? They did notify about the recall

True, but their smokes probably cost him at least $0.10 more than System
Sensor and you know how important a dime is when you're always replacing all
kinds of panels with something you know.
 
G

Group Moderator

Jan 1, 1970
0
You're the one who said you replace Napco with brands you know. That
seems to pretty clearly indicate you know little or nothing about Napco.
Your comments here back that up.
Regards,
Robert L ass

=============================>
Bass Himme Electronics
2241 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-72-8930 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarm.com
=============================>


Mike Said;
Like you know little or nothing about ADEMCO.

http://www.AlarmSuperStore.com
"Your One Stop Alarm Shop"
 
N

Norm Mugford

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert L. Bass said:
Oh, now I get it. You replace Napco systems which you say you know with
something else which you say you know to better serve your customers and you
do this for free. It's a good thing you don't know more or you'd have to
replace all your systems again -- at no charge -- to better serve your
customer (of course). Uh-huh, sure. Do you also sell bridges?


It seems pretty clear to me. You understand Napco so you replace it with
something else which you know. Uh-huh.


Suuure, you do. Right. :^)


More likely you ran across an MA-3000, couldn't understand the manual and
gave up. You should have called me. I could have one of my DIYers teach
you the ropes. The Napco panels aren't that difficult to understand once
you get started. I've installed hundreds of them and I've sold thousands
more to DIYers. BTW, I also sell Ademco, ITI, DSC (if someone really
insists on it), Caddx, Paradox and several other brands. None of them has
been difficult for DIYers, including the Napco P9600, MA-3000, Ademco
Vista-128FB, etc.


Same here. I have no problem getting tech support from any of these
manufacturers, including Napco. I wonder why it is you failed. Perhaps it
was your charm, winning personality and tact. :^)


It must get expensive replacing all these brands with something you know.


I sell more than that in a month. Maybe if you sold more product they'd be
more inclined to help you out when you don't understand the products.


Whoops! So much for GE. It's a good thing you can still count on Tandy.


Suuure, you did.


That's strange. I get recall notices directly from manufacturers *and* from
ADI. I wonder why none of them is willing to help you out.


Oh, really! You stopped doing business with ADI, did you? Heh, heh, heh...

Hmm. First, they were so bad that you dropped them. Now they're a great
support for the alarm industry and you love them? What happened? You went
back to ADI when AFY went belly up? Radio Shack refused to give you tech
support?

I've found ADI overall to be helpful, courteous and honorable. Staff
occasionally make mistakes, such as shipping the wrong item, but they will
replace it, send a call tag and not charge for doing so (only fair, I
think). They give great prices if you do enough volume, too.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

I didn't say I loved ADI, I said I rekindled my relationship
with them. And, yes for 5 or 6 years I refused to buy anything
from ADI. I only buy panels from them now and that's about it.

Can't you read Mr. Bass?

Norm Mugford
 
N

Norm Mugford

Jan 1, 1970
0
The Caddx problem was due to the fact that Caddx was
not made to report 4x2 format. If you use CID, it works fine.
But when you programmed the panel for 4x2 it did strange stuff.
At the time we used 4x2 exclusively, and that was pointed
out when we bought the product.

ESL did not notify the users, they notified the vendors.
If we had not called direct to the manufacturer we
would never had known. And ADI, after knowing about
the recall, wasn't sure what we should do.

Norm Mugford
 
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