Maker Pro
Maker Pro

GFCI Outlet Installation

W

w_tom

Jan 1, 1970
0
All these replies are irrelevant because that post said:
All those other wall receptacles, ... should have wires
wrapped completely around the screws; not use the push
in holes on the back of conventional wall receptacles.

GFCIs are not conventional wall receptacles.
 
R

Roy Q.T.

Jan 1, 1970
0
(John Gilmer) wrote:
  Those make contact with the
wires via spring tension. The newer GFCI's have a clamp in the holes,
which is tightened onto the wires when you tighten the screws.
Some months ago "someone" on this NG was touting a replacement for the
wirenut that to all appearances is equivalent to the "push in" you see
on cheap outlets.
I purchased a recessed ceiling fixture (new work type) that has these
already "in the box" but I haven't used it yet.   I haven't seen them
at the local BIG BOX store but I haven't looked lately.
Problem is, of course, is when "they" start selling GOOD "push ins" many
folks will remember the NOT so good "push ins."   Maybe that's why I
don't see them at HD.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>

I have a box full of assorted push in wire connectors, I always say to
my self I am going to use these to do an impressive job foe someone
lucky., some of them have there own test point/hole so you don't have to
take them off or shove wires aside to test., I think I'm saving them for
my own home };-)

[Oh' I got them at electro international]

Roy
 
J

John Gilmer

Jan 1, 1970
0
GFCIs are not conventional wall receptacles.

Duh!

BUT if you spent more for your "conventional" outlets, you will get a
variation of the "clamp" on the GFCI.
 
W

w_tom

Jan 1, 1970
0
The conventional receptacle already has a screw that
should be used and a push in connection that should not be
used. How does a GFCI solve problems created by wires pushed
into the back of a conventional wall receptacle? So you
recommend replacing all wall receptacles with GFCIs? Your
point is ....?
 
D

David

Jan 1, 1970
0
Interesting. Although, I don't think any of my switches or receptacles are
controlled by more than one circuit breaker. But, I'll look out for it.

Dave


w_tom said:
One answer was posted previously. This is simple point to
point wiring. Nothing that requires an advanced education.
But translating simple diagrams from and to text requires
careful reading. Now that answer which but one example:
... the 'load' side neutral wire was wrapped together (wire
nutted) with a neutral wire from some other circuit. I have
seen amateur electricians do this. Two switches were to be
powered by different circuits. But the electrician wired all
neutrals [white wires] from both circuits together. When
asked why he did this, well, he always did this for years.
It was only when AGFIs were required by code that his
circuits had strange problems.
IOW be suspicious of any receptacle or switch boxes that
controls power from two different circuit breaker circuits.
Just another reason why the GFCI would see a failure and
complain.

Wire wires from different circuits connected together will
not trip conventional circuit breakers but will be detected by
GFCI units.

BTW, if you have determined the circuit breaker number for
each outlet, then simply write that circuit breaker number on
the inside surface of each cover plate. If one need ever turn
off power to fix a receptacle, then he knows immediately which
breaker to cut off.
Interesting.. I live in a small 2 level townhouse. There are 3 breakers
(switches) labeled "lighting" in the breaker panel. One of those
breakers
controls the downstairs lighting, and the other 2 control the upstairs
lighting. There are other breakers in the breaker panel labeled range,
A/C,
water, dryer, etc., and one labeled "main" that shuts everything off. I
tested all of the upstairs receptacle and switches that are controlled by
the same breaker as the GFCI receptacle. They all tested normal. Could
a
problem with a receptacle/switch controlled by one breaker cause a
problem
with a receptacle/switch controlled by another breaker? If yes, how
might
that happen? If possible, please explain it to me at the high school
level.
I know the basics of series/parallel circuit design, but not much more.

Thanks for all of your help (everybody),

Dave
 
w_tom said:
All these replies are irrelevant because that post said:



GFCIs are not conventional wall receptacles.
I don't think all the replies were based on the above material you quoted.
It was this line(quoted below) that you wrote that may have engendered
them - it is the reason I responded, at any rate.
"That was not a reference to GFCIs that can only connect using screws."

Your above statement is not wrong - but it may be misunderstood.
The point being that with these GFCI's the wires can connect via screw
tightened *clamps* as well as by wrapping around the screws. The
better practice with the newer GFCI is to use the holes in the back.
The clamp, not the screw, holds the wire, and it does a better job
of using the force that the screw exerts - it "bites" the wire better.
It uses the screws allright, but does not require wrapping the wire
around the screw.

Ed
 
David said:
Interesting.. I live in a small 2 level townhouse. There are 3 breakers
(switches) labeled "lighting" in the breaker panel. One of those breakers
controls the downstairs lighting, and the other 2 control the upstairs
lighting. There are other breakers in the breaker panel labeled range, A/C,
water, dryer, etc., and one labeled "main" that shuts everything off. I
tested all of the upstairs receptacle and switches that are controlled by
the same breaker as the GFCI receptacle. They all tested normal. Could a
problem with a receptacle/switch controlled by one breaker cause a problem
with a receptacle/switch controlled by another breaker?
The following answer is in response to your question. It is not
related to your problem, which right now boils down to not
knowing where the capped wires go. Ok, setting that problem
aside....
Ignoring bizaare events and wiring errors, there is a way for
that to happen, if you have shared neutral circuits.
If the neutral wire opens on a multiwire (shared neutral) circuit,
then the breaker on one circuit can affect the equipment on the
other circuit. The open neutral causes the two circuits to be
in series. I'll try to draw a diagram of a shared neutral circuit:
hot1----------equipment--+
neutral--------------------+
hot2----------eguipment--+
In the above, the current can flow from the hot, through
the equipment back to the panel via the neutral. (The +
signs indicate that everything is connected together.)
There is an open in the neutral in the diagram below:
hot1----------equipment--+
neutral-------open ------+
hot2----------eguipment--+
In this diagram, current cannot flow from the hot, through
the equipment and back to the panel via the neutral. But it
can flow through the equipment connected to the other
hot. The effect is that the two pieces of equipment are in
series, and the circuit breaker for either hot leg will
affect both pieces of equipment.

Ed
 
W

w_tom

Jan 1, 1970
0
Those newer GFCIs with wires in the back still required a
screw to be tightened. I appreciate how some could have
misconstrued what I had posted. The point about wiring
conventional outlets was made as a sidebar; not intended
directly as part of the original question.

I never saw a GFCI that clamped a wire without tightening a
screw.
 
Top