Getting a US Patent

[Raveninghorde]

I have an electronics product idea but if it is any good it is out of
my league. So I want to see if there is already a US patent covering
it and if not I want to get a US patent.

I see various news reports of Nokia suing Apple, someone suing
Blackberry, Intel, AMD etc.

If my idea is original and if it is viable would I be able to defend
it against the big boys?

 

[Adrian C]

I have an electronics product idea but if it is any good it is out of
my league. So I want to see if there is already a US patent covering
it and if not I want to get a US patent.

I see various news reports of Nokia suing Apple, someone suing
Blackberry, Intel, AMD etc.

If my idea is original and if it is viable would I be able to defend
it against the big boys?

No.

IMO Best way is to make a full and _free_ disclosure in the public
domain, and just get on and make/sell your item. There will be
competitors, but there are always competitors.

 

[PeterD]

I have an electronics product idea but if it is any good it is out of
my league. So I want to see if there is already a US patent covering
it and if not I want to get a US patent.

Do a patent search.

I see various news reports of Nokia suing Apple, someone suing
Blackberry, Intel, AMD etc.

Sure, that's the way lawyers make money.

If my idea is original and if it is viable would I be able to defend
it against the big boys?

You can defend anything. No one however, can tell you if you'd win or
not.

+++

Nothing, absolutely nothing, beats getting complex legal advice from a
Usenet group. <g>

 

[Don Lancaster]

I have an electronics product idea but if it is any good it is out of
my league. So I want to see if there is already a US patent covering
it and if not I want to get a US patent.

I see various news reports of Nokia suing Apple, someone suing
Blackberry, Intel, AMD etc.

If my idea is original and if it is viable would I be able to defend
it against the big boys?

At one time, ideas were worth as much as a dime a dozen.
These days, they are worth less than ten cents a bale in ten bale lots.

See http://www.tinaja.com/patnt01.asp to learn why patents for most
individuals and small scale startups are monumentally stupid.

--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: [email protected]

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

 

[Don Lancaster]

Documenting your idea in writing, signing and dating it as "Inventor,"
and having someone sign and date it as "Witness" goes a long way to
protecting your rights .....

Typo.

Should read...

"Documenting your idea in writing, signing and dating it as
"Inventor," and having someone sign and date it as "Witness" does
not do Jackshit.

Ideas are totally worthless until they are out of beta test and are
a proven seller with a proven market.

If your "idea" is any good, it WILL be stolen. All the patent
system does is formalize and drag out the inevitable process.

http://www.tinaja.com/patnt01.asp

--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: [email protected]

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

 

[mike]

I have an electronics product idea but if it is any good it is out of
my league. So I want to see if there is already a US patent covering
it and if not I want to get a US patent.

Google "patent search" There used to be online patent repositories.
Call the library. Ask them. BIG libraries sometimes have access for
patent searches.

I see various news reports of Nokia suing Apple, someone suing
Blackberry, Intel, AMD etc. What's your point?

If my idea is original

It LIKELY is not.
and if it is viable
It likely is not.
would I be able to defend

it against the big boys?

Not a snowball's chance in hell.

A patent is a license to sue.
Imagine yourself up against a hundred microsoft or nokia
or ....lawyers. Even if you've been violated, you'll be bankrupt
a decade before you ever get to court.

Ok, so you got everything right and are granted a patent.
Now What? Can you afford to engineer, manufacture, distribute,
service a product using your patent?

You can license it.
You can sell it outright.

I've been away from it for a decade, but there used to be a thing
called a "provisional patent". It was a short-form patent disclosure
that cost $75 to file and gave you some limited protection for a year
while you tried to market your idea and let the buyer complete the
patent...or decided to complete the process yourself. There are a bunch
of ways to shoot yourself in the foot and forfeit protection.

There was a local inventors club. A couple of dozen people with ideas
and some attorneys to help you.
This was a genuine club of helpful, experienced inventors.
Not go be confused with "as seen on TV" fee based invention services.

Near as I could tell, the only guy who ever made any money did it on
a plastic extrusion that was sliced up to make a pencil holder that
clips on a sun visor. Was a giveaway marketing item for insurance
companies etc. He made 2-cents each, but the volume was high.
Not sure if he tried to patent it, but it succeeded because
the market is vast
it's cheap
the big guys aren't interested

I don't have any statistics, but I estimate that the probability
of a small guy making a killing on a patent is similar the chance
of winning the lottery if you invested as much in tickets as
you're gonna invest the patent.

The more complicated the idea and the more lucrative the market,
the less chance you have to be successful. THE BIG FISH WILL EAT YOU.

 

[Don Lancaster]

That is the truth.
The US Patent system does nothing but empower the guy with the most
money.
Our entire company policy has been to make a good product at a good
price and let the copy cats fall all over themselves trying to knock it
off, and by then we are on to the next product or iteration and their
product is old news.
Seems to have been working for the last 17 years.

One of the most telling factors is that patent litigation insurance
typically costs over $100,000 per year. Per patent, of course.

http://www.tinaja.com/patnt01.asp



--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: [email protected]

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

 

[Don Lancaster]

I don't have any statistics, but I estimate that the probability
of a small guy making a killing on a patent is similar the chance
of winning the lottery if you invested as much in tickets as
you're gonna invest the patent.

Not even close.

The typical lottery is a MUCH better "investment" than a patent.
Ridiculously and ludicrously so.

http://www.tinaja.com/patnt01.asp




--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: [email protected]

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

 

[PeterD]

I disagree. Such paperwork proves invention, date of invention, and
that you didn't steal it. That's especially valuable if you _don't_
patent.

It is totally worthless... If you don't have a patent, and someone
else does, their patent will trump your 'statement' with no effort at
all. The only thing that can protect you is to publish all details
about your invention so that it becomes prior art--and that only helps
if you are first, and give you no protection, just prevents others
from patenting it.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Raveninghorde"

I have an electronics product idea but if it is any good it is out of
my league.

** If the idea is any good - you did not think of it first.

So I want to see if there is already a US patent covering
it and if not I want to get a US patent.

** Product ideas are not inventions and hence are non patentable.



..... Phil

 

[krw]

I have an electronics product idea but if it is any good it is out of
my league. So I want to see if there is already a US patent covering
it and if not I want to get a US patent.

You can do the search yourself, but I highly doubt a patent will make
you any money. It certainly will cost.

I see various news reports of Nokia suing Apple, someone suing
Blackberry, Intel, AMD etc.

Sure, but note that these aren't all patent disputes.

If my idea is original and if it is viable would I be able to defend
it against the big boys?

Unless you're wealthy enough not to need the money, no. The chances
that you'll beat the "big boys" is miniscule.

 

[krw]

s/proves/shows evidence of/

It is totally worthless... If you don't have a patent, and someone
else does, their patent will trump your 'statement' with no effort at
all. The only thing that can protect you is to publish all details
about your invention so that it becomes prior art--and that only helps
if you are first, and give you no protection, just prevents others
from patenting it.

Proof of prior invention is good enough. The problem is the "proof"
part. A court is unlikely to take a statement witnessed by your
mother.

 

[krw]

Some random thoughts:

1 - Most everything is already invented.

....and I thought Charles Duell died a century back. ;-)

3 - Depends on your ultimate customer: If big multi-national, they
tend to value patent protections, and often will not move without it.

Usually because they have no interest in you suing them for IP
infringement.

6 - Also, your idea must be non-obvious.

"Non-obvious" doesn't mean what people usually think it means.

8 - Never patent anything unless you have (or are really sure you will
have) a paying customer at some point.

Not necessarily true. Often patents are defensive.

9 - Be prepared to wait. US Utility patents can take several years to
grant (and often longer).
I have one pending now that's been at USPTO for a year, and hasn't
even been assinged to an examiner yet -- and it's at least a year or
two out from its first office action.

That's about right. I just had one issued and I haven't worked there
for three years.

10 - There are horror stories about people who wasted their lives
chasing royalties that never materialized, even in cases of blatant
infringement.
However, there are just as many stories with happy endings. Of all
the people on the planet, you are best-equipped to make the decision.

Just as many? You're an optimist. ;-)

 

[krw]

Google "patent search" There used to be online patent repositories.
Call the library. Ask them. BIG libraries sometimes have access for
patent searches.

You can do it online! http://patft.uspto.gov/

 

[Don Lancaster]

Maybe customers will come out of the woodwork. (Where does that
expression come from?)

Termites, obviously.


--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: [email protected]

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

 

[krw]

Actually, you are not even required to do a patent search. (*)

The search is intended to save patent filing and lawyer's fees in case
there is already prior art. It also helps the examiner because,
theoretically, he's going to go through the same search. Of course it
also helps in writing claims that don't step on prior art.

If your invention is patentable, the examiner is required by law to
write at least one patent Claim for you.
(Most people don't know that!)

Examiners don't write claims. It's up to you do identify what you're
trying to protect.

Although, you can pretty much expect the examiner's claim to be so
narrowly written that the resulting patent will have absolutely no
value.

The more important reason for conduting the patent search is NOT to
see if someone else beat you to it (though that is a consideration),
but rather, to discover exactly what it is you have invented!! And
you can't determine that, without knowing the prior art.

It helps to determine what you're trying to protect. You've already
done the "invention"/

 

[krw]

That's Don's point and you're both right--it's the rare invention
that's worth it.

....for an individual. Corporations have many reasons for patents.

Not at all--if you have the moxie, will, or money, you can. If not,
and your patent is truly valuable, you can sell it to one of the
infringers' competitors and they'll be only too delighted to enforce
it for you.

*He* wouldn't be defending it. It would be their property.

 

[David L. Jones]

I have an electronics product idea but if it is any good it is out of
my league. So I want to see if there is already a US patent covering
it and if not I want to get a US patent.

I see various news reports of Nokia suing Apple, someone suing
Blackberry, Intel, AMD etc.

If my idea is original and if it is viable would I be able to defend
it against the big boys?

Yes, certainly, but only if you have a millions of dollars to spend on the
case (minimum).
And then it usually trivially easy for them to get around your patent
anyway.

A good guide here:
http://www.tinaja.com/patnt01.asp

Dave.

 

[David L. Jones]

I don't have any statistics, but I estimate that the probability
of a small guy making a killing on a patent is similar the chance
of winning the lottery if you invested as much in tickets as
you're gonna invest the patent.

That sounds about right to me!

Dave.

 

[krw]

* Well, there may be construction aspects that need not be disclosed for
a complete and full patent; those aspects make for a trade secret that
can be used to stay ahead of copycats.

You are required to disclose your best implementation (best mode,
IIRC) of the idea - at the time of application. Of course it can be
developed further, after.

Many companies continually advance the art for what they sell and
keep those advances a trade secret.
Yes.

And if you line your ducks up first, make, market and sell first and
_then_ disclose..you start one step ahead.

The application must be made before (one-year window in the US) you
receive "commercial gain" from the invention. "Commercial gain" could
be an offer for sale, publication of a spec sheet of a device
containing the invention, or even discussing the product with a
customer. Not to mention that any delays in are a chance for your
competition. If you're going to patent don't screw around. Get to
the PO as soon as possible. Remember, it'll take them two or three
years to get it out the door.