Connect with us

General Purpose Programmer

Discussion in 'Microcontrollers, Programming and IoT' started by sundy, Oct 18, 2016.

Scroll to continue with content
  1. sundy

    sundy

    64
    5
    Aug 5, 2016
    My Chip Master 3000 appears to have died. I am looking for a general purpose programmer that can run M27C64A EPROMS, and P87C51SBPN OTP/ROM microcontrollers. My answer to most of your questions is 'I don't know'. I am a RF/microwave technician that owns a company and we use these two IC's. I was fine just following the training I got from the previous owner until the Chip Master 3000 started throwing errors.

    I need something to work out of the box with minimal configuration and great customer support. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

    Alternatively is the a service for programming IC's I might use?
     
  2. hevans1944

    hevans1944 Hop - AC8NS

    4,460
    2,075
    Jun 21, 2012
    See if your devices are on this list. If so, the somewhat pricey Chipmaster 7000 might work for you. Or maybe upgrade to this one.

    Try this link for programmers (hardware) and programming services.

    Do you know who the manufacturer is for the M27C64A EPROM is? Who made the P87C51SBPN OTP/ROM microcontrollers? Are these one-time programmable ROMs built into the microcontroller? What IS this chip? Is it still manufactured and still available? Can you "read" the ROM data/program so you can clone a new version? Sometimes these come with fuse-links that are deliberately blown after programming to make the program "invisible" and difficult (impossible) to copy. This protects the developer's intellectual property rights but makes it damn difficult for anyone except those with resources like the CIA or NSA to "reverse engineer".
     
  3. sundy

    sundy

    64
    5
    Aug 5, 2016
    Oh yes I looked at the Chip Master 70000, I would rather not spend that much. I have about 40 of the units left so I don't have long term plans for this equipment. I have the source code. This is our design. I was looking at the settings on the 3000 and didn't see any 'fuses' set. The NPX OTP/ROM is 'one time programmable'. I wasted 8 of them yesterday in the forlorn hope it was me that was broken not the hardware. The EPROM'S are ST brand. I use those to update the Daylight Saving Time dates for customers master clocks. We make a few dollars and keep the end user happier.
     
  4. Arouse1973

    Arouse1973 Adam

    5,164
    1,080
    Dec 18, 2013
  5. hevans1944

    hevans1944 Hop - AC8NS

    4,460
    2,075
    Jun 21, 2012
    You need to understand how a "universal" programmer works before attempting to purchase one. The typical programmer has a 40-pin Zero Insertion Force (ZIF) socket with each of those 40 pins connected to a software programmable "pin driver" circuit. The pin driver is capable of receiving binary data presented to the pin by the device being programmed, or Device Under Test (DUT). The pin driver is also capable of providing a voltage to the pin, the nature of this voltage being dependent on function required.

    For example, obviously power and ground or Vcc and Vdd must be supplied to the device. The software that controls the programmer chooses which of the 40 pins gets power and ground based on what the DUT is, whether it is a microprocessor, an EPROM, an EEPROM, or a FLASH memory. You have to specify the DUT when "setting up" the programmer.

    Many devices, such as EPROMs and EEPROMs, require address lines (where is the data going to be stored?) as well as one or more data lines. Some devices have internal address registers that are incremented during the programming process. In addition to "setting up" the DUT to accept data bits and store those bits in specific locations, there is usually a requirement to provide one or more pulses of specific amplitude, duration, and timing (with respect to other things that are going on, such as address and data presentation). The logic circuits inside the programmer are set up by software to provide all these things, to the correct pin drivers, when the DUT is specified by the user. The software is also responsible for "reading back" or verifying that the data stored is "correct" and is stored in the "correct" locations.

    There are several other "features" a modern "universal" programmer may choose to implement (in software of course!) such as DUT checking to ensure it is inserted with the correct orientation, that all the pins make good electrical contact, that the DUT is ready to accept data (internal "security" bits aren't set), and perhaps that the device is "erased" so it is ready to program. Some programmers will erase devices such as EEPROMs and FLASH memories prior to writing new data.

    The capabilities of the "universal" programmer absolutely depend on the programmer manufacturer having a detailed description from the DUT manufacturer of exactly how to write (and read) data for the device. The exact method varies widely from one DUT to another. There are literally tens of thousands of devices (well, potentially an infinite number, actually) that a "universal" programmer can program... all that is needed is the appropriate setup and control software in the programmer for the DUT. Obviously there is some overlap within a DUT family, so even different part numbers may still use the same software for setup and control. But microprocessors are all over the map when it comes to how they are programmed, so the DUT part number has to be very specific.

    But, you say, I only have this small number of devices to program. Why should I pay big bux for a "universal" programmer that programs zillions of parts I will never use? Well, that's the way the cookie crumbles. The hardware is there to program any DUT that fits in the ZIF socket and requires voltages the programmer can produce. The only thing that changes is the software controlling the programmer (those 40 pin-drivers, remember?). You just have to make sure that whichever "universal" programmer you choose actually has the software required to program your small number of devices. It helps if the programmer manufacturer has a good "track record" and adequate technical support to "upgrade" their programmer with software for the latest gee-whiz DUT, just in case you later decide to add to your small number of devices. :D Google for reviews.

    As a side note, back in the day, ultra-violet erasable EPROMs were used to store the program the microprocessor executed. I bought an inexpensive Asian programmer whose ZIF socket was controlled with a special interface card that plugged into an expansion card slot on a PC. The software was supplied as a binary executable that ran under MS-DOS. No schematics. No source code. A very limited number of EPROM types were supported. FLASH memory didn't exist yet, much less microprocessors with built-in FLASH program memory. IIRC, you could purchase μPs with one-time programmable ROM, but those were usually used as embedded processors for mass-market peripheral devices like printers or reel-to-reel 9-track magnetic tape drives... and maybe clocks.

    A "universal" programmer usually requires a program development environment that (eventually) produces the binary image that will be downloaded or "burned" into the DUT and executed by a microprocessor. If all you have is the binary image someone else provided, you can use that image with the "universal" programmer, but it is very difficult to troubleshoot if the program doesn't work properly. Sometimes it can take years before a "bug" appears unexpectedly in a program that has been running successfully "in the field" and exists in hundreds if not thousands of product. Without a program development environment (and a person who knows how to use it) you are up the proverbial excrement-filled tributary in a flotation device without a means of propulsion. Good luck with that.:eek:
     
    chopnhack likes this.
  6. dorke

    dorke

    2,342
    665
    Jun 20, 2015
    Other ways to go about it:

    1.Repair the ChipMaster 3000,contact the manufacture for that option,
    sometimes it is possible to get a working replacement till your unit is fixed.

    2.Rent/lease a ChipMaster 3000,or any other suitable programmer,if you need it for a short period of time.

    Hope it helps
     
    chopnhack and hevans1944 like this.
  7. sundy

    sundy

    64
    5
    Aug 5, 2016
    Yes I contacted Logical Devices. They don't support the 3000 any more. I think it has been out of production for 20 years.

    My hang up is the M27C64A, I have a bunch of different flavors. My Shooter died a year ago and I was using the 3000 as a copier.

    I don't know anything about the 3000, I don't have schematics or time I'm afraid.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2016
  8. sundy

    sundy

    64
    5
    Aug 5, 2016
    I happen to be in that aquatic situation NOW!

    Exactly my problem. I have not got the skill to setup a general purpose programmer. I tried calling Advin but they did not answer. I will continue to seek someone who can burn the P87C51SB for me. I can provide a Master Clock to test the burned chip in so I don't get a bunch of useless and expensive IC's.
     
  9. dorke

    dorke

    2,342
    665
    Jun 20, 2015
    I don't now how things work in your area.
    Have you tried the "yellow pages" or any tech related similar thing,
    for "IC /memory Programming Services" ?

    These can be found worldwide even for hobbyers.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2016
    chopnhack and sundy like this.
  10. sundy

    sundy

    64
    5
    Aug 5, 2016
    LOL! I forgot the Yellow Pages completely. Our kids make fun of me for using a phone book.
     
  11. tvman

    tvman

    3
    0
    Aug 19, 2013
  12. ricardo diaz

    ricardo diaz

    3
    0
    Feb 22, 2017
    Hi people, nice to write here for the first time, i have a general question about programmers, and how you do when browsing in the device list for the chip id and it doesn´t show in such list? under the brand name?, it is very necesary to have the device id loaded before atempt to write or it doesn´t matter at all? i´m pretty confused, my device doesn´t identify the chip automatically so i have to browse manually for the id, pretty akward Genius G540 of mine, thank you all for the kindly help and attention guys, cheers.
     
  13. sundy

    sundy

    64
    5
    Aug 5, 2016
    You should start your own thread, resurrecting an old thread is considered bad form on most forum sites.
     
Ask a Question
Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?
You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.
Electronics Point Logo
Continue to site
Quote of the day

-