general boat wiring?

[Shaun Van Poecke]

Hi all,
Will hopefully be wiring up a boat in the next few months (thunderbird 26)
that has no existing wiring. It will be a pretty standard sort of a setup;
a couple of batteries, nav lights, cd player, compass light, GPS, wiring to
outboard and solar panel. Ive done a fair bit of wiring in the past and
dont have trouble making up a decent quality loom with color coded wiring,
spade connectors and heat shrink.

What im wondering is, does standard wiring do the job well enough here, or
do you use marine specific stuff? Standard battery terminals, standard
spade connectors? are most people running their wiring inside conduit, or
just using a wiring wrap to keep things tidy? Do you coat the finished
product in anything, especially in places like the back of fuse boards or
other panels? Any other things i need to keep in mind here?

Thanks,
Shaun

 

[Daniele Fua]

Hi all,
Will hopefully be wiring up a boat in the next few months (thunderbird 26)
that has no existing wiring. It will be a pretty standard sort of a setup;
a couple of batteries, nav lights, cd player, compass light, GPS, wiring to
outboard and solar panel. Ive done a fair bit of wiring in the past and
dont have trouble making up a decent quality loom with color coded wiring,
spade connectors and heat shrink.

What im wondering is, does standard wiring do the job well enough here, or
do you use marine specific stuff? Standard battery terminals, standard
spade connectors? are most people running their wiring inside conduit, or
just using a wiring wrap to keep things tidy? Do you coat the finished
product in anything, especially in places like the back of fuse boards or
other panels? Any other things i need to keep in mind here?

Thanks,
Shaun

You should use marine specific stuff and, in particular, I would
strongly recommend to use marine-tinned wire.
For an almost complete text on wiring a boat:
Charlie Wing: Boatowner's illustrated handbook of wiring, International
Marine, Camden, Maine.
You can order it easily on the internet.

Daniel

 

[Flemming Torp]

"Keith" <[email protected]> skrev i en meddelelse

SNIP

Here's a little freeware program that will help you figure out what
size wire you should be using:
http://www.midcoast.com/~aft/index2.html

Hello,

Thank you for a useful link. I have played with it, and I need some help
in conversion.

The result in the program is something like #2 or #3 etc.

Can anyone in the group point to a link with conversion rates from these
dimensions (i.e. #1, #2, #3 etc.) to mm-squared ... or tell me how I do
the calculation, if there is a specific formula?

 

[Daniele Fua]

Hello,

Thank you for a useful link. I have played with it, and I need some help
in conversion.

The result in the program is something like #2 or #3 etc.

Can anyone in the group point to a link with conversion rates from these
dimensions (i.e. #1, #2, #3 etc.) to mm-squared ... or tell me how I do
the calculation, if there is a specific formula?

I don't know if there is an exact formula and knowing the rationale
behind the inch/foot/yard system I doubt it
(The length of the thumb of a king...)

Gauge Cross sectional area
AWG mm^2

18 0.82
16 1.31
14 2.08
12 3.31
10 5.26
8 8.39
6 13.3
4 21.2
3 26.6
2 33.6
1 42.4
0 53.5
2/0 67.7
3/0 85.2
4/0 107

Regards
Daniel

 

[Jack Erbes]

"Keith" <[email protected]> skrev i en meddelelse

SNIP

Hello,

Thank you for a useful link. I have played with it, and I need some help
in conversion.

http://www.reade.com/Conversion/wire_gauge.html

Persistance and google, that will conquer all...

Jack

 

[Paul]

Hi all,
Will hopefully be wiring up a boat in the next few months (thunderbird 26)
that has no existing wiring. It will be a pretty standard sort of a
setup; a couple of batteries, nav lights, cd player, compass light, GPS,
wiring to outboard and solar panel. Ive done a fair bit of wiring in the
past and dont have trouble making up a decent quality loom with color
coded wiring, spade connectors and heat shrink.

What im wondering is, does standard wiring do the job well enough here, or
do you use marine specific stuff? Standard battery terminals, standard
spade connectors? are most people running their wiring inside conduit, or
just using a wiring wrap to keep things tidy? Do you coat the finished
product in anything, especially in places like the back of fuse boards or
other panels? Any other things i need to keep in mind here?

Shaun,

When you say "spade terminal", do you mean the slide-on/off
quick-disconnects, or the fork terminals that go under a screw on a terminal
strip? Fork terminals are not usually recommended for use on boats, as they
are more likely to shake or slide off (even the ones with the little
up-turned ends). Ring terminals are the better bet, and getting the ones
with adhesive-filled heat-shrink sleeves will help prevent corrosion, and
reduce vibration effects on the crimp. As for the quick-disconnects, if you
have to use them I would suggest using a good dielectric grease (silicone
grease is good, but don't let it drip on the gelcoat) to reduce oxidation.
Better yet, use a more secure method of connection.

As others have said, you definitely want to use marine-grade tinned,
stranded wire. Try leaving some cheap "lamp cord" near the bilge and watch
how quickly the wire turns to dust.

Conduit is nice, and I recommend it if you can use it, but be sure to
oversize it because you will always discover one more circuit you want to
run. Well-protected cable looms are pretty standard, just be sure to
support the bundle well, and provide grommets or other protection where the
bundle passes through a bulkhead (for example).

Of course, I don't always practice what I preach, but at least I feel guilty
about it!

-Paul

 

[Gordon Wedman]

Hi all,
Will hopefully be wiring up a boat in the next few months (thunderbird 26)
that has no existing wiring. It will be a pretty standard sort of a
setup; a couple of batteries, nav lights, cd player, compass light, GPS,
wiring to outboard and solar panel. Ive done a fair bit of wiring in the
past and dont have trouble making up a decent quality loom with color
coded wiring, spade connectors and heat shrink.

What im wondering is, does standard wiring do the job well enough here, or
do you use marine specific stuff? Standard battery terminals, standard
spade connectors? are most people running their wiring inside conduit, or
just using a wiring wrap to keep things tidy? Do you coat the finished
product in anything, especially in places like the back of fuse boards or
other panels? Any other things i need to keep in mind here?

Thanks,
Shaun

Here's my two cents:
-tinned wire, doesn't have to be "marine"
-good quality crimp terminals, not the cheap ones often found in auto parts
stores
-proper size crimp terminal for the wire
-industrial quality ratcheting crimper like Xcelite.......buy on eBay
-heat shrink tubing with internal adhesive to shrink over the crimp and 1/2
inch of the wire
-I like to use BoShield T9 on terminal blocks, buss bars, etc., to prevent
corrosion
-label your wires with white vinyl tape and permanent black marker pen

 

[Flemming Torp]

Thank you very much ..

 

[Flemming Torp]

"Jack Erbes" <[email protected]> skrev i en meddelelse

SNIP

http://www.reade.com/Conversion/wire_gauge.html

Persistance and google, that will conquer all...

Yes, I should have tried with *more* persistance and the right words ...
Thank you!

 

[Larry]

spade connectors

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!
NO SPADE CONNECTORS!!

Captain's Mast will be at noon, followed by the floggings and keel
hauling after lunch.

Now, why do I act this way with you pondering spade lugs on a boat
POUNDING AWAY IN THE SURF so hard it juggles stuff loose?

For tomorrow, write on the blackboard 500 times:

"I will only use RING terminals..."
"I will only use RING terminals..."
"I will only use RING terminals..."
"I will only use RING terminals..."
"I will only use RING terminals..."
"I will only use RING terminals..."
"I will only use RING terminals..."
"I will only use RING terminals..."
"I will only use RING terminals..."

Thanks.....

 

[Lynn Coffelt]

A good deal of modern boat electronics wiring is connected to terminal
blocks by sticking the end of the wire into a hole where a screw-down clamp
holds the wire in place. It always looked like a not too smart idea to me,
but they neglected to ask me when the equipment was being designed.
My question is: How do you experts treat the wire ends that go into the
terminal block holes?
1. I usually twist the strands tightly, clockwise, before putting into
the hole. A couple of real Pros said this was bad practice. However I
believe it helps prevent "wild hairs", and makes sure each strand gets a
tight mechanical squeezing into the circuit.
2. Sometimes I twist the strands togather and flow just a very small
bit of solder into the last 1/4 inch (or less if quick on the trigger). I
know the old wives tales about solder cold flow loosening the connection
after time, and the solder creating a stress riser that breaks strands with
vibration. It seems to me, and with lots of "miles" and hundreds of
installations, nobody except the "Pros" have complained.

I realize that under aircraft rules, the solder would be strictly
forbidden, but with well tied and supported wire bundles, I have yet to find
my own connections coming back to haunt me. (I lie a little too, no man is
perfect) (except the Captain, of course)

Old Chief Lynn

 

[Peter Bennett]

A good deal of modern boat electronics wiring is connected to terminal
blocks by sticking the end of the wire into a hole where a screw-down clamp
holds the wire in place. It always looked like a not too smart idea to me,
but they neglected to ask me when the equipment was being designed.
My question is: How do you experts treat the wire ends that go into the
terminal block holes?

Europeans frequently use these compression terminals (Phoenix,
Weidmuller and other make nice terminal block systems using them), and
use ferrules (sp?) on the wires - metal sleeves, possibly with a
plastic part to go over the wire insulation - the ferrules are crimped
on the wire, before inserting the wire in the terminal, and make a
very neat installation. The normal ferrules do make it difficult to
get two wires in a terminal, but there are ferrules designed
specifically to handle two wires (I've never used them myself.)

These ferrules and crimp tools are available from Digikey, Newark and
others.

These European terminal block systems make really nice assemblies -
much nicer than our usual barrier blocks. With the optional parts
that allow you to bridge terminals, you can make quite fancy
distribution systems. See
http://members.shaw.ca/peterbb/dinblock.html

--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI
peterbb4 (at) interchange.ubc.ca
new newsgroup users info : http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca

 

[Larry]

2. Sometimes I twist the strands togather and flow just a very
small
bit of solder into the last 1/4 inch (or less if quick on the
trigger). I know the old wives tales about solder cold flow loosening
the connection after time, and the solder creating a stress riser that
breaks strands with vibration. It seems to me, and with lots of
"miles" and hundreds of installations, nobody except the "Pros" have
complained.

Unfortunately, the combo of copper wire shorted to lead/zinc solder forms
a GREAT little battery that eats the copper right where the solder ends
going up the wire. The salt air is really hard on it, even if there's no
spray. Electrolysis happens.

Europeans, possibly the British, are the reason for those little wire
blocks with the clamps on them. I don't think they are a bad thing. All
Lionheart's tiepoints in the whole NMEA system use them at the various
"stations" (helm, nav, main data point where the multiplexer and power
come from). None have ever come loose from either stranded or solid
wires. None ever turned green, like the USA screw blocks with crimped-on
ring terminals do. They seem to stay nice and tight, to me.

Larry

 

[Lynn Coffelt]

(Larry)

Unfortunately, the combo of copper wire shorted to lead/zinc solder forms
a GREAT little battery that eats the copper right where the solder ends
going up the wire. The salt air is really hard on it, even if there's no
spray. Electrolysis happens.

Yeah, I suppose. Somewhat like tinned crimp-on lugs on copper wire. Or
63/37 solder on copper pcb's. Or molded-on battery post connectors on
battery cables, or.........
Well, to be fair, I've seen quite a lot of copper wire eaten off where
joined to tin/lead solder, but it usually took an hour or two under salt
water..... or not flushed with fresh water immediately after salt water
spray or immersion.
Sealing terminal blocks away from salt water (or any water, for that
matter) isn't a bad tradition, but my objection to the way some of the
"European" blocks are being used does not protect them from the atmosphere
(or water running down behind the instrument panel..... heh heh heh..
When an occasional boat from here gets a pilot house window smashed out
during a heavy sea (in the North Pacific), most everything with open backs
and those cute little "European" terminal blocks is junk before it is
possible to throw it into fresh running water.

Old Chief Lynn

 

[Bill Kearney]

are most people running their wiring inside conduit, or

just using a wiring wrap to keep things tidy?

Bear in mind you're not just trying to keep them tidy. It's important to
keep them secure from movement. The bouncing action of the waves is not
good for maintaining connections. Stuff moves, cracks and corrosion starts.

 

[JohnDW]

Peter Bennett, in article <0inhu2helpvoua2dr1h3ekkopfsr67qjp1
@news.supernews.com>, says...

Europeans frequently use these compression terminals (Phoenix,
Weidmuller and other make nice terminal block systems using them), and
use ferrules (sp?) on the wires - metal sleeves, possibly with a
plastic part to go over the wire insulation - the ferrules are crimped
on the wire, before inserting the wire in the terminal, and make a
very neat installation. The normal ferrules do make it difficult to
get two wires in a terminal, but there are ferrules designed
specifically to handle two wires (I've never used them myself.)

These ferrules and crimp tools are available from Digikey, Newark and
others.

These European terminal block systems make really nice assemblies -
much nicer than our usual barrier blocks. With the optional parts
that allow you to bridge terminals, you can make quite fancy
distribution systems. See
http://members.shaw.ca/peterbb/dinblock.html

As a European of the British variety I would never use
(European designed) DIN rails on a boat - or anywhere subject
to moisture. They are intended for power wiring in enclosed
locations ONLY. OK, if you enclose them in a waterproof box
but not otherwise.

I think I'm agreeing with Larry - Use crimped ring terminals
on screw connectors. At least, with these, if the screw does
loosen due to vibration, the wire doesn't become disconnected
and go walkabouts. As an alternative, I'll use screw
connectors with the wire crimped into a bootlace ferrule or,
preferably, one with a hook on the end so the wire won't come
out in the event of the screw vibrating loose. (similar to
this: http://tinyurl.com/32pmmu)

And, yes, keep the metalwork the same so you don't get
electrolytic corrosion.

 

[Electricky Dicky]

Peter Bennett, in article <0inhu2helpvoua2dr1h3ekkopfsr67qjp1
@news.supernews.com>, says...

As a European of the British variety I would never use
(European designed) DIN rails on a boat - or anywhere subject
to moisture. They are intended for power wiring in enclosed
locations ONLY. OK, if you enclose them in a waterproof box
but not otherwise.

I think I'm agreeing with Larry - Use crimped ring terminals
on screw connectors. At least, with these, if the screw does
loosen due to vibration, the wire doesn't become disconnected
and go walkabouts. As an alternative, I'll use screw
connectors with the wire crimped into a bootlace ferrule or,
preferably, one with a hook on the end so the wire won't come
out in the event of the screw vibrating loose. (similar to
this: http://tinyurl.com/32pmmu)

And, yes, keep the metalwork the same so you don't get
electrolytic corrosion.

Ring terminals, hooked blades, bootlace ferrule or spade connectors,
IMHO if the terminal comes a bit loose you have probably got a burn
out on the connector and wire end anyway!
If you are considering Din rail mount terminals then take a look at
WAGO spring loaded terminals, no screws to come loose at all!

--

Richard

Nb "Pound Eater" Parkend G+S
"Governments are like Nappies, they should be changed often."
(For the same reason)

 

[Bruce in Alaska]

When an occasional boat from here gets a pilot house window smashed out
during a heavy sea (in the North Pacific), most everything with open backs
and those cute little "European" terminal blocks is junk before it is
possible to throw it into fresh running water.

Old Chief Lynn

I can attest to the above in SPADES.... NOTHING beats nice Enclosed
Equipment with Packing Glands, with the connections inside, done with
Crimp Terminals on a Terminal Strip. All the old Furuno Radar
Interconnect Cables were done this way, never saw one of those die
from corrosion, unless the ORing, on the cover failed.

Bruce in alaska

 

[Larry]

Bruce in alaska

Got your Skype request. Did it approve ok?

Larry

 

[JohnDW]

Chuck Tribolet, in article <12ukbegaluhttf7
@corp.supernews.com>, says...

Why would it burn out? Burn outs happen from high current. You don't get high
current from loose connection, you get low current.

Arcing/sparking or otherwise generating heat due to a higher
than normal connection resistance.