Gel-cell lead acid battery on end?

[dep_blueman]

Can I set a standard gel-cell lead acid battery on its end in an alarm
panel without issue?

The panel that holds our cellular backup hardware only has enough room
for 1 4 amp hour battery but will 'accept' per the docs. a 7 amp hour
battery. However, the only way to install the larger battery would be
to set it on end.

Not knowing much about these batteries I thought I would check here to
see if that is OK or not.

Thanks. D

 

[RH.Campbell]

I recently had an interesting discussion with someone in the industry who is
associated with the overseas companies who manufacture lead acid batteries
for alarm panels. It seems that manufacturers feel very much pressured by
the biggies in the industry who (at least until lately) were heavy into
selling the "zero down" systems. Apparently, these large companies
increasingly demand better bulk pricing on batteries, such that in order to
serve this market, batteries are now made much more cheaply.

So a battery that used to last from 5 to 10 years now only lasts from 3 to 5
years because of cheaper manufacturing. And in my experience, I have seen
them go in as little as two years on several occasions that I can
remember...

Comments anyone ?

RHC

 

[spike]

yep, just don't cover vent holes

 

[spike]

So that's what' s going on, I thought it was just all these damn outages
Hydro foisted on us this summer

Sounds plausible to me, 3 verses 5 years is about right too. The bastards,
typical short-sighted paper flipping eh?
I actually have a few TEN YEAR OLD Sonnescheins that hold a charge better
than the brand new made in China crap.

 

[petem]

it will work but the usefull life of the battery will be shorter

better way to deal with that is to add a second box that can handle the
battery and extension the battery wire to it..(protect them,dont leave the
wire reachable)

 

[fly in the ointment]

petem wrote

it will work but the usefull life of the battery will be shorter

I have not found that to be true.
js

 

[petem]

we used to install a 7 amp battery on the side for powering a dvac
transmitter(europlex) and we saw that most battery would not last 2 years
when similar battery in the alarm panel would still be ok...

we buy battery in bulk (installing more then 200 system a month) and we did
saw a big difference..
they were all the same brand (we have our logo on it so we buy them all from
the same source)

after all we only changed a few hundred.....

 

[RH.Campbell]

Logical conclusion Doug ! And I would hazard a guess that it's probably one
of those decisions that's somewhat of a "win win" situation for the
manufacturer as well. However, the party that I was speaking to indicated
that it was pressure from the marketplace that dictated their decision. But
who knows really since it's all supposition anyway...

RHC

 

[dep_blueman]

Thanks to everyone for the information. I will stand the battery on
end and test it in a couple of years just to be sure.

-D

PS. this thread already has 10 posts and no flames. Could this be a
new trend??

 

[George]

Not so fast , I stood a battery on end for 5 weeks once

 

[spike]

A chemist too, far out, why petem?

 

[petem]

even if you have a gel inside the battery its still acting as a liquid but
its moving much more slowly...

when you tilt the battery on the side you expose a part of the electrode to
air..
and you make a strong connection of the gel to the bus that connect to the
electrode where its not supposed to be in contact with the acid all the
time..

 

[Aegis]

Logical conclusion Doug ! And I would hazard a guess that it's probably
one

of those decisions that's somewhat of a "win win" situation for the
manufacturer as well.

Not if their sales volume decreases because of it. Hint hint.

 

[Aegis]

Couldn't it be possible that it was the use of the battery in the DVACs that
caused the shorter life, not the fact that the battery was on its side? to
really draw a valid conclusion you'd have to compare the life spans when the
only difference is the orientation of the battery.

Don't forget about variances in the batteries themselves. This is to include
manufacturer variances as well. You can have 2 completely different
(electro-chemically) batteries coming directly off the line if the
manufacturing process is sub-par.

How long did Battery A sit on your (shop or truck) shelf vs Battery B?
How long did they sit on your supplier's shelves?
What temperatures have the 2 been subjected to in their 'pre-life' before
install? ...after install?
What about variances in the loads they are pushing?
Variances in charging circuitry?

 

[petem]

man...you know if someone could put some shit on your nose and make you
smell it ,i am pretty sure that you would still argue that this is not
shit,its probably some organic material that was left somewhere for a few
weeks..

and then after even if you had a video from the ejection on the said shit
up to tyhe mokent its on your nose,you would still argue...

one thing i know...we stoped putting the battery on the side,strangly the
life span of the majority of those battery was the same as the one in the
alarm control panel installed at the same time from the same company supply
and tre same brand...

by the way do you know what is a dvac module?

 

[fly in the ointment]

petem wrote

we used to install a 7 amp battery on the side for powering a dvac
transmitter(europlex) and we saw that most battery would not last 2 years
when similar battery in the alarm panel would still be ok...

Maybe the alarm panel managed the battery better than the dvac.

we buy battery in bulk (installing more then 200 system a month) and we did
saw a big difference..
they were all the same brand (we have our logo on it so we buy them all from
the same source)

Mattel or Hasbro? ;-)

after all we only changed a few hundred.....

I used to stand them on end in Moose Z-1100 panels (don't even say it, Mark)
so a full size 66 block would fit. I can't remember ever seeing a battery
fail sooner than 5 years, and most went further. You might want to try
Yuassa batteries.
js

 

[Mark Leuck]

petem wrote

Maybe the alarm panel managed the battery better than the dvac.


Mattel or Hasbro? ;-)


I used to stand them on end in Moose Z-1100 panels (don't even say it, Mark)
so a full size 66 block would fit. I can't remember ever seeing a battery
fail sooner than 5 years, and most went further. You might want to try
Yuassa batteries.
js

Moose panels are.......damn!

 

[fly in the ointment]

Mark Leuck wrote

Moose panels are.......damn!

Very good! Now just keep repeating;

Every day, in every way, I'm getting better and better....

 

[Mark Leuck]

man...you know if someone could put some shit on your nose and make you
smell it ,i am pretty sure that you would still argue that this is not
shit,its probably some organic material that was left somewhere for a few
weeks..

and then after even if you had a video from the ejection on the said shit
up to tyhe mokent its on your nose,you would still argue...

one thing i know...we stoped putting the battery on the side,strangly the
life span of the majority of those battery was the same as the one in the
alarm control panel installed at the same time from the same company supply
and tre same brand...

by the way do you know what is a dvac module?

Been drinking pete?

 

[Aegis]

man...you know if someone could put some shit on your nose and make you

smell it ,i am pretty sure that you would still argue that this is not
shit,its probably some organic material that was left somewhere for a few
weeks..

No, I'd call it shit...

and then after even if you had a video from the ejection on the said shit
up to tyhe mokent its on your nose,you would still argue...

What language is that written in? ...and what is a mokent?

one thing i know...we stoped putting the battery on the side,strangly the
life span of the majority of those battery was the same as the one in the
alarm control panel installed at the same time from the same company supply
and tre same brand...

Sounds like good results. So what's your beef?

by the way do you know what is a dvac module?

If I had to guess, I'd say it's a Canadian version of a U.S. AC module.