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Gel-cell lead acid battery on end?

Discussion in 'Security Alarms' started by dep_blueman, Jan 12, 2004.

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  1. dep_blueman

    dep_blueman Guest

    Can I set a standard gel-cell lead acid battery on its end in an alarm
    panel without issue?

    The panel that holds our cellular backup hardware only has enough room
    for 1 4 amp hour battery but will 'accept' per the docs. a 7 amp hour
    battery. However, the only way to install the larger battery would be
    to set it on end.

    Not knowing much about these batteries I thought I would check here to
    see if that is OK or not.

    Thanks. D
     
  2. RH.Campbell

    RH.Campbell Guest

    I recently had an interesting discussion with someone in the industry who is
    associated with the overseas companies who manufacture lead acid batteries
    for alarm panels. It seems that manufacturers feel very much pressured by
    the biggies in the industry who (at least until lately) were heavy into
    selling the "zero down" systems. Apparently, these large companies
    increasingly demand better bulk pricing on batteries, such that in order to
    serve this market, batteries are now made much more cheaply.

    So a battery that used to last from 5 to 10 years now only lasts from 3 to 5
    years because of cheaper manufacturing. And in my experience, I have seen
    them go in as little as two years on several occasions that I can
    remember...

    Comments anyone ?

    RHC
     
  3. spike

    spike Guest

    yep, just don't cover vent holes
     
  4. spike

    spike Guest

    So that's what' s going on, I thought it was just all these damn outages
    Hydro foisted on us this summer :)

    Sounds plausible to me, 3 verses 5 years is about right too. The bastards,
    typical short-sighted paper flipping eh?
    I actually have a few TEN YEAR OLD Sonnescheins that hold a charge better
    than the brand new made in China crap.
     
  5. petem

    petem Guest

    it will work but the usefull life of the battery will be shorter

    better way to deal with that is to add a second box that can handle the
    battery and extension the battery wire to it..(protect them,dont leave the
    wire reachable)
     
  6. petem wrote
    I have not found that to be true.
    js
     
  7. petem

    petem Guest

    we used to install a 7 amp battery on the side for powering a dvac
    transmitter(europlex) and we saw that most battery would not last 2 years
    when similar battery in the alarm panel would still be ok...

    we buy battery in bulk (installing more then 200 system a month) and we did
    saw a big difference..
    they were all the same brand (we have our logo on it so we buy them all from
    the same source)

    after all we only changed a few hundred.....
     
  8. RH.Campbell

    RH.Campbell Guest

    Logical conclusion Doug ! And I would hazard a guess that it's probably one
    of those decisions that's somewhat of a "win win" situation for the
    manufacturer as well. However, the party that I was speaking to indicated
    that it was pressure from the marketplace that dictated their decision. But
    who knows really since it's all supposition anyway...

    RHC
     
  9. dep_blueman

    dep_blueman Guest

    Thanks to everyone for the information. I will stand the battery on
    end and test it in a couple of years just to be sure.

    -D

    PS. this thread already has 10 posts and no flames. Could this be a
    new trend??
     
  10. George

    George Guest

    Not so fast , I stood a battery on end for 5 weeks once :)
     
  11. spike

    spike Guest

    A chemist too, far out, why petem?
     
  12. petem

    petem Guest

    even if you have a gel inside the battery its still acting as a liquid but
    its moving much more slowly...

    when you tilt the battery on the side you expose a part of the electrode to
    air..
    and you make a strong connection of the gel to the bus that connect to the
    electrode where its not supposed to be in contact with the acid all the
    time..
     
  13. Aegis

    Aegis Guest

    Logical conclusion Doug ! And I would hazard a guess that it's probably
    one
    Not if their sales volume decreases because of it. Hint hint.
     
  14. Aegis

    Aegis Guest

    Don't forget about variances in the batteries themselves. This is to include
    manufacturer variances as well. You can have 2 completely different
    (electro-chemically) batteries coming directly off the line if the
    manufacturing process is sub-par.

    How long did Battery A sit on your (shop or truck) shelf vs Battery B?
    How long did they sit on your supplier's shelves?
    What temperatures have the 2 been subjected to in their 'pre-life' before
    install? ...after install?
    What about variances in the loads they are pushing?
    Variances in charging circuitry?
     
  15. petem

    petem Guest

    man...you know if someone could put some shit on your nose and make you
    smell it ,i am pretty sure that you would still argue that this is not
    shit,its probably some organic material that was left somewhere for a few
    weeks..

    and then after even if you had a video from the ejection on the said shit
    up to tyhe mokent its on your nose,you would still argue...

    one thing i know...we stoped putting the battery on the side,strangly the
    life span of the majority of those battery was the same as the one in the
    alarm control panel installed at the same time from the same company supply
    and tre same brand...

    by the way do you know what is a dvac module?
     
  16. petem wrote
    Maybe the alarm panel managed the battery better than the dvac.
    Mattel or Hasbro? ;-)
    I used to stand them on end in Moose Z-1100 panels (don't even say it, Mark)
    so a full size 66 block would fit. I can't remember ever seeing a battery
    fail sooner than 5 years, and most went further. You might want to try
    Yuassa batteries.
    js
     
  17. Mark Leuck

    Mark Leuck Guest

    Moose panels are.......damn!
     
  18. Mark Leuck wrote
    Very good! Now just keep repeating;

    Every day, in every way, I'm getting better and better....
     
  19. Mark Leuck

    Mark Leuck Guest

    Been drinking pete?
     
  20. Aegis

    Aegis Guest

    man...you know if someone could put some shit on your nose and make you
    No, I'd call it shit...
    What language is that written in? ...and what is a mokent?
    Sounds like good results. So what's your beef?
    If I had to guess, I'd say it's a Canadian version of a U.S. AC module.
     
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