Gas Dryers

[Winston]

Vaughn Simon wrote:

....

Exactly! if you are casting around for a way to save power expense, look
first at things that are running most of the time; forget things that are rarely
used. In your kitchen, it would do you little good to have the world's most
efficient toaster, but your refrigerator may be the cause of a significant
portion of your electric bill. On which should you invest your time/money?

I remember seeing somewhere a multi channel current sensor.
One could wire it into one's power panel easily because it
required only passing a breakers hot wire through a given
toroidial current transformer.

Strikes me that would be a fast way to determine which
circuits were responsible for what fraction of power consumed.
It would be rough and ready because I can't recall if it had
power factor correction or even if it determined voltage to
arrive at wattage.

Beauty part is that it would allow one to calculate consumption
for hardwired loads like HVAC as well as loads connected to
outlets.

--Winston

 

[Winston]

Neon John wrote:

....

You ought to do an energy audit on yourself. It's hard to save energy until
you know where it's actually going.

....

Thanks for the info. I shall re-read and ponder.

I admit I'm challenged by the amount of activity it takes to
do a proper energy audit. Where does one buy a 'smoke stick'
anyway?


--Winston

 

[Malcolm \Mal\ Reynolds]

You could look at the wear on the clothes from significantly longer
tumble times as a possible expense also.

But then I get more lint that I "could" turn into weavable fiber. LOL.

 

[[email protected]]

| You ought to do an energy audit on yourself. It's hard to save energy until
| you know where it's actually going. Here's a fairly incomplete page on the
| topic
|
| http://www.neon-john.com/Misc/Energy_Audit.htm
|
| The energy audit spreadsheet makes keeping track of energy usage easy. You'll
| need either some meters like I show on my page or a few Kill-A-Watts. KAWs
| don't work on 240, unfortunately, so metering you biggest energy consumers
| will require something like the revenue meter that I show or a clamp-on
| wattmeter.

Are you suggesting a meter panel like that for each 240 volt circuit?


| THE biggest things I've done to reduce my energy consumption have been to
| install a wood stove and zoning my AC. Zoning means not heating or cooling
| all of the house the same. I have a strange metabolism and require a cold
| environment to be comfortable. In the low 60s to high 50s in my bedroom.

I have that same metabolism. I like it at 15C when trying to sleep, and 20C
when active.


| One method of zoning, even with a central unit, is to install a window unit or
| mini-split in the bedroom or office or wherever you spend most of your time
| and then set the main thermostat to some higher temperature. I've gone a step
| farther and hung up a curtain around my bed and only air condition the air
| around the bed using a portable unit. The portable unit is on wheels and has
| a hose that connects to a window opening to conduct the hot air and condensate
| outside.

I'm doing my house design with central A/C completely eliminated. I have not
decided what kind of equipment I will use. I'm still looking. My grandfather
had in one room of his house, back in the 1960's an interesting heater and A/C
unit that I would like to find. It was a vertical module that was partially
recessed into the wall. It went through the wall at the bottom to eject heat
when in A/C mode. Inside, this unit drew air in at a bottom vent and blew it
out at a top vent. It was basically self contained. It was 100% electric.

What I'd like to consider is doing this with electric for the blower and maybe
a pump, but do the thermal transfer through a water flow.

My specific goal is to eliminate central air _blowing_ to do thermal transfer.
I will put in a central air blower system, but it will be a highly filtered
low flow rate system that is thermally neutral. I want to be able to control
the air transfer rate independently of thermal transfer rates, including
completely shutting off the air transfer. Each major room will have its own
thermal transfer end-point and control. Whether the thermal will be by water
in pipes to a central unit, or by electrical/freon, I have not determined.
Apparently that will depend a great deal on what I can find. This might well
be a mini-split that includes a heater. These do exist, but they are all of
the horizontal design. I'd prefer the vertical design.

 

[Vaughn Simon]

My grandfather
had in one room of his house, back in the 1960's an interesting heater and A/C
unit that I would like to find. It was a vertical module that was partially
recessed into the wall. It went through the wall at the bottom to eject heat
when in A/C mode. Inside, this unit drew air in at a bottom vent and blew it
out at a top vent. It was basically self contained. It was 100% electric.

Sounds like a Packaged Terminal Air-Conditioner (PTAC), a type of unit
commonly used in motel rooms in the USA. A more modern (and cheaper) option
would be a mini-split unit. Some mini-splits now have pretty good efficiency.

Scroll down on this
http://www.ajmadison.com/phpdocs/ajtest/a_c_buying_guide.php page to see both
the PTAC and mini-split units. I will be installing a mini-split in my bedroom
soon. (Unfortunately, one thing leads to another, so that job has grown into a
compete bedroom re-do.)

Vaughn

 

[[email protected]]

I'm doing my house design with central A/C completely eliminated. I have not
decided what kind of equipment I will use. I'm still looking. My grandfather
had in one room of his house, back in the 1960's an interesting heater and A/C
unit that I would like to find. It was a vertical module that was partially
recessed into the wall. It went through the wall at the bottom to eject heat
when in A/C mode. Inside, this unit drew air in at a bottom vent and blew it
out at a top vent. It was basically self contained. It was 100% electric.

Sounds a lot like what we used - 3 separate console heat-pumps. Very
effective in a well insulated home. Ours are 700W each, run time is
usually limited to cooling the bedroom and office alone during hot
weather. They're run much longer when we have excess wind power.
Here's an old photo of the one in the living room
http://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/images/main/heatpump.jpg As Vaughn
noted, frequently seen in motels. I used a common loop for all 3, with
separate circulation pumps and check valves in each.

Wayne

 

[Ulysses]

But then I get more lint that I "could" turn into weavable fiber. LOL.

You guys can laugh but I've actually made some interesting paper from dryer
lint.

 

[Malcolm \Mal\ Reynolds]

You guys can laugh but I've actually made some interesting paper from dryer
lint.

I just watch a show on "green" things and part of one segment was on dryer
lint. Uses included mulch, firestarter and of course spinning it into
"wool". Guy actually went to laundromats and collected the stuff. It might
make an intersting blended material, but I wouldn't mulch with it.

 

[Malcolm \Mal\ Reynolds]

Now I can see the next great new "Green" technology
to save the earth: Bellybutton Lint collection/recycling.

Where can I send in my seed money? Too bad the
Dem. convention is over, we could probably have
gotten it in the platform. Well, we can always pressure
the underwear makers into supporting our cause. Just
a few threats of law suits, over their polluting the nations
bellybuttons, should get a good flow of funds coming
in.

Luck;
Ken

I don't know, there are quite a few dryers out there and "growing" your
own clothes should be appealing. If nothing else I'm sure that China would
buy it.

 

[[email protected]]

|
| |>My grandfather
|> had in one room of his house, back in the 1960's an interesting heater and A/C
|> unit that I would like to find. It was a vertical module that was partially
|> recessed into the wall. It went through the wall at the bottom to eject heat
|> when in A/C mode. Inside, this unit drew air in at a bottom vent and blew it
|> out at a top vent. It was basically self contained. It was 100% electric.
|
| Sounds like a Packaged Terminal Air-Conditioner (PTAC), a type of unit
| commonly used in motel rooms in the USA. A more modern (and cheaper) option
| would be a mini-split unit. Some mini-splits now have pretty good efficiency.
|
| Scroll down on this
| http://www.ajmadison.com/phpdocs/ajtest/a_c_buying_guide.php page to see both
| the PTAC and mini-split units. I will be installing a mini-split in my bedroom
| soon. (Unfortunately, one thing leads to another, so that job has grown into a
| compete bedroom re-do.)

I've seen those in motels. They also have them in some college dorm rooms.
They had them in the Twin Towers Dorms at Marshall University when I went to
school there for a while. When a unit went bad, they just swapped modules
by pulling them out of the frame and putting a new one in. In the summer
they were slow at getting them fixed due to so few students in the dorms,
so several of us figured out to swap them ourselves with working units we
found in empty rooms (lock picking was a useful skill, too).

These, and the ones at AJ Madison, are horizontal units, and would not fit
well for my needs. What I need is a vertical form factor inside, so that
the horizontal space occupied is minimal.

I'm also looking for devices like that which use a central water flow system
in lieu of electrical heat, and maybe also in lieu of freon to each unit.
That is an alternative I've been considering, since centralizing the thermal
work makes alternative heat sources an option, and can make cooling more
efficient.

If I end up having to make a unit myself, it would be a water based design
with an electrically controlled water valve and multi speed fan. It might
be possible to do this entirely on low voltage which would be a safety factor
of importance since it would be impractical to get a UL listing on a device
I build for myself.

I do know some people have experimented with running chilled water to water
based radiators in older homes with water (not steam) based heat radiators.
They just added a small fan assembly behind the radiator. I've heard of the
baseboard water base radiator systems doing this as well, although being at
the floor level and no space for a fan, it would not do well for cooling.
A 2nd set at the ceiling just for the cooling might do a bit better. But I
don't like the wide horizontal space these occupy. I just mention them as
a reference.

Heating by electricity to each device is not ruled out. I'm just thinking
that doing it by water has more options because I can tank the water easier
and acquire the heat from other means, such as solar, fireplace extraction,
wood stove, and heat produced from things like a generator. A geothermal
heat pump would also be an option (e.g. treating outside ground as a form
of thermal mass).

 

[[email protected]]

47:04 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
|
|
|>I'm doing my house design with central A/C completely eliminated. I have not
|>decided what kind of equipment I will use. I'm still looking. My grandfather
|>had in one room of his house, back in the 1960's an interesting heater and A/C
|>unit that I would like to find. It was a vertical module that was partially
|>recessed into the wall. It went through the wall at the bottom to eject heat
|>when in A/C mode. Inside, this unit drew air in at a bottom vent and blew it
|>out at a top vent. It was basically self contained. It was 100% electric.
|
| Sounds a lot like what we used - 3 separate console heat-pumps. Very
| effective in a well insulated home. Ours are 700W each, run time is
| usually limited to cooling the bedroom and office alone during hot
| weather. They're run much longer when we have excess wind power.
| Here's an old photo of the one in the living room
| http://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/images/main/heatpump.jpg As Vaughn
| noted, frequently seen in motels. I used a common loop for all 3, with
| separate circulation pumps and check valves in each.

Is that an electrical panel on the left at near floor level?

Ever seen one of these in a vertical form factor, especially one that takes
in air at the bottom and puts it out at the top (say about 2 meters high and
1/2 to 2/3 meter wide) for cooling?

 

[[email protected]]

|
| |>My grandfather
|> had in one room of his house, back in the 1960's an interesting heater and A/C
|> unit that I would like to find. It was a vertical module that was partially
|> recessed into the wall. It went through the wall at the bottom to eject heat
|> when in A/C mode. Inside, this unit drew air in at a bottom vent and blew it
|> out at a top vent. It was basically self contained. It was 100% electric.
|
| Sounds like a Packaged Terminal Air-Conditioner (PTAC), a type of unit
| commonly used in motel rooms in the USA. A more modern (and cheaper) option
| would be a mini-split unit. Some mini-splits now have pretty good efficiency.
|
| Scroll down on this
| http://www.ajmadison.com/phpdocs/ajtest/a_c_buying_guide.php page to see both
| the PTAC and mini-split units. I will be installing a mini-split in my bedroom
| soon. (Unfortunately, one thing leads to another, so that job has grown into a
| compete bedroom re-do.)

Some googling turned up the term VTAC for vertical units. However, what I
see so far are only larger units to be enclosed in a closet, such as for
heating/cooling an entire apartment. That might be great for larger rooms.
For smaller rooms like bedrooms, I want a smaller unit that can embed in the
wall and face out into the room. The unit my grandfather got back in the
late 1950's to early 1960's was embedded in the wall and protruded about 5
6 inches from the wall. So it had maybe 4 or 5 inches inside the wall to
work with. It wasn't a substantial unit, but it did manage to keep the
added on dining/social room warm and cool as needed. I do not know if it
was a commercial unit he just bought, or if he or someone else just made
it on their own. I do not recall ever seeing a brand name on it, but I was
in the age range of 8 to 14 when I paid any attention to it, and that was
not much at all. I never thought, back then, that I might ever consider
such a thing for myself.

 

[Ulysses]

I just watch a show on "green" things and part of one segment was on dryer
lint. Uses included mulch, firestarter and of course spinning it into
"wool". Guy actually went to laundromats and collected the stuff. It might
make an intersting blended material, but I wouldn't mulch with it.

I only used select lint from all-cotton clothes for my paper projects so
that it would have a long life. Some synthetic fibers might also be
resistant to deterioration but it would be difficult to determine which ones
and how long and what kinds of chemical reactions might get started etc.

My daughters like to knit ski caps and scarves and such... maybe it's time
to get a spinning wheel.