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From breadboard to ...

Discussion in 'Misc Electronics' started by :-), Nov 1, 2005.

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  1. :-)

    :-) Guest

    There it is, my marvellous hardware application works fine on a
    breadboard :)

    It is a 25 TTL LS type ICs with some stip connector and 5v power supply.
    It isn't a high freq application.

    Next step is now how do I produce 2 of them. I'm a pour guy :-( without
    experience into board fabrication ...

    So I was thinking maybe wirewrap or something like that ...

    Someones can suggest me ideas on on that or others methods, pros and
    cons, cost, durability etc ...
    Tutorial also welcome :)

    JC :)
     
  2. CWatters

    CWatters Guest

    There are lots of PCB fab houses that will do you a double sided PCB for
    very little money. You should be able to get three single Euro card size PCB
    (160mm x 100) quite cheaply.

    This place has a very simple to use cad program linked to their fab process
    (only their process)...

    http://www.expresspcb.com/ExpressPCBHtm/Download.htm
     
  3. If you can live with 160mm x 100mm board size, you can get a copy of Eagle for
    free (http://www.cadsoftusa.com/) and use any board house you desire.

    Also, you might take a look at some simple CPLD or FPGA devices to take the
    place of most if not all of those 25 LSTTL parts.
     
  4. CWatters

    CWatters Guest


    Yes Egale is good. I've also got that.

    I used ExpressPCB some years ago and found it ideal for novices who know
    little or nothing about PCB layout. Experts would have found it too
    restrictive. Might have changed by now though.
     
  5. :-)

    :-) Guest

    Thanks all. I will take a look at thoses.

    On the other side is wirewrap still a solution for a prototype ?

    Is there some free CPLD or FPGA software around too ?

    Thanks :)
     
  6. JeffM

    JeffM Guest

    I'm a pour guy :-(Ah. Moonlighting as a bartender.
    ..
    ..
    Folks have mentioned EAGLE.
    Nice program. Very usable demo version. Good price structure:
    http://groups.google.com/group/alt....ayer+OR+*-layers+80mm-*-*+160mm-*-*+eagle+$50

    If that doesn't meet your needs, KiCAD:
    is cross-platform (Windows and Linux).
    is open source (gratis and libre).
    has a French development team that seems to be very responsive
    (bug fixes; English docs).
    http://groups.google.com/group/sci....-the-short+zzz+rerouted-*-track+DRC-violation
    ..
    ..
    Generally considered archaic.
    http://groups.google.com/group/sci....ockets-with-*-long-*-posts+more-than-a-decade
    http://groups.google.com/group/sci....-slower-it-is+cheaply+*-available+very-simple

    With 25 chips * 14 pins == over 300 wraps ON EVERY BOARD--that's a
    pain.
    If all your hair isn't gone, you may soon pull it out:
    http://groups.google.com/group/sci..../cb938601e05606dc?q=bad-wire-wrap-connections

    PCB fabrication is CHEAP these days.
    http://groups.google.com/group/sci....ards-for-$51-total+5-pcbs-$13-each+browse_frm
    ..
    ..
    ..
    Rather than posting the same question individually to multiple groups
    (called multi-posting),
    http://groups.google.com/groups?fil...+thiking-wirewrap+OR++thinking-maybe-wirewrap
    instead, the FIRST time you post it
    put the name of every group in which you would like it to appear
    on the To: line (the Groups: line).
    That is called cross-posting.
     
  7. :-)

    :-) Guest

    Thanks :)
     
  8. JeffM

    JeffM Guest

  9. CWatters

    CWatters Guest

    Yes but it depends how you value your time. How much would you pay for
    several days off work?
     
  10. :-)

    :-) Guest

    I begin to think really to go with a pcb when ready instead . It will
    pay itself with the saving building time ...

    By what if I can reduce the number of ICs, by using PLD maybe, it could
    be still a good easy solution ....

    I'll see ;-)
     
  11. Jon Elson

    Jon Elson Guest

    Whew, this is really "old school"! I used to do a lot of wirewrap of
    systems smaller
    and MUCH larger than this. I'm glad those days are past! Nowadays the
    preferred
    design methodology is to use ONE FPGA chip to replace up to hundreds of
    SSI-MSI
    chips.

    But, if you REALLY will only ever need two units, wire wrap of the
    design might
    be pretty cost effective. If you will need a few more in the future, a
    PCB design
    might be a lot better choice. A 2-layer board should suffice fine if it
    works on a
    breadboard. Others have already commented on cost-effective ways to make
    protoytype quantities of boards cheaply.

    If you have to go out and buy a wire wrap gun, a kit of pre-cut wire,
    and 50 assorted
    wire wrap sockets plus the perf boards, that could cost as much or more
    than a cheap
    PCB run at one of the low-cost shops!
    Wire-wrap, done with professional tools, is plenty reliable. Some
    wire-wrap gear I
    built 25 years ago is still running perfectly. Stay away from the obsolete
    Slit-n-Wrap gimmick, as the insulation is VERY easily cut when dragged
    around
    corners, and the shorts are IMPOSSIBLE to find.

    Jon
     
  12. Jon Elson

    Jon Elson Guest

    Also, making changes to a wire-wrap board is a lot easier than hacking
    traces
    on a prototype PCB.

    Jon
     
  13. Jon Elson

    Jon Elson Guest

    This is VERY true. It also eliminates errors that the hand
    wire-wrapping could introduce.
    Yes, a 1-chip FPGA implementation is another way to go. Or, the
    Xilinx 95xx series of CPLD. The larger of these might be able to fit
    your entire 25-chip LSTTL design into one $20 part.

    Jon
     
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