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Ford car stereo F87F-18C815-BB drains car battery.

D

David Farber

Jan 1, 1970
0
I was given this Ford F87F-18C815-BB factory tuner/cd player to see why it's
draining the car battery to the point where the car won't start. It has
already been removed from the car. I found the pin outs here:
http://carstereohelp.net/wireharness_Ford1.htm According to the owner, only
the antenna and J1 were being used. By the way, since the radio has been
removed from the car, the battery does not abnormally discharge.

It's been a while since I've powered up a car stereo. Do I need 12V on pin 3
(start), pin 4 (clock), pin 9 (battery), pin 10 (run:acc)? Is the "clock"
the actual time of day display or is it the internal clock for the system
processor(s)? Are pins 1 and 2 (illum +/-) just the 12V input that power
whatever accessory lights there are? Can that be jumpered to the 12V line as
well? Is it ok to common ground the illum - pin to pin 11 (radio
gnd)?Basically I want to begin by putting it in standby mode and measuring
the current. Also, does anyone know where to get a schematic for this unit?

Thanks for your replies.
 
David Farber said:
I was given this Ford F87F-18C815-BB factory tuner/cd player to see
why it's draining the car battery to the point where the car won't
start.

This radio appears to be for a late 90s-mid 00s Ford. If the car still
has the factory battery, replace it. If the battery that's in there now
is more than 5 or 6 years old, replace it. You and the car owner will
be happier. :)
Do I need 12V on pin 3 (start), pin 4 (clock), pin 9 (battery), pin 10
(run:acc)?

My guess: apply power to pin 9 only to simulate the key off position.

Apply power to pins 9 and 10 both to simulate the key on position.

I don't know what pin 3 (start) does, but I suspect it might be for
"load shed" when you turn the ignition key to "start", so the engine
starter gets the maximum possible juice. Some cars do this by having
two different "run" wires from the ignition switch - one gets dumped in
"start" and the other doesn't - but I can see them just using the
"start" wire as a disable as well.
Is the "clock" the actual time of day display or is it the internal
clock for the system processor(s)?

"Clock" is probably either a constant +12 V to keep the clock running,
or maybe it has to do with when the clock is displayed. (Like, maybe
the body computer sends 12 V to it when you open the door, so the
clock comes on with the dome light.) If it's constant 12 V, then I
don't know why it doesn't just use pin 9, but maybe they wanted to put
it on a different circuit.
Are pins 1 and 2 (illum +/-) just the 12V input that power whatever
accessory lights there are?
Probably.

Can that be jumpered to the 12V line as well? Is it ok to common
ground the illum - pin to pin 11 (radio gnd)?

In the car, they may get fed from a rheostat or PWM box so as to have
something less than 12 V on them. You might apply something like 6 to
8 V DC to pins 1 and 2, only, and see if the display or buttons start to
light up. If that looks good, then ramp up to 12 V. If 12 V looks
good, then yeah, you can just connect pin 2 (illum -) to pin 11 (radio
ground) and pin 1 (illum +) to either pin 9 or pin 10. If 6 or 8 V DC
makes the display or buttons light up insanely bright, then go down on
the voltage a little.
Also, does anyone know where to get a schematic for this unit?

It probably exists on two hard drives at Ford (or their supplier) and
nowhere else. A few repair places, like the one you linked, may have
one, but they probably want to repair your stereo for you rather than
give (or sell) you a copy of the schematic. I wouldn't hold my breath
waiting for one.

Matt Roberds
 
D

David Farber

Jan 1, 1970
0
This radio appears to be for a late 90s-mid 00s Ford. If the car
still has the factory battery, replace it. If the battery that's in
there now is more than 5 or 6 years old, replace it. You and the car
owner will be happier. :)


My guess: apply power to pin 9 only to simulate the key off position.

Apply power to pins 9 and 10 both to simulate the key on position.

I don't know what pin 3 (start) does, but I suspect it might be for
"load shed" when you turn the ignition key to "start", so the engine
starter gets the maximum possible juice. Some cars do this by having
two different "run" wires from the ignition switch - one gets dumped
in "start" and the other doesn't - but I can see them just using the
"start" wire as a disable as well.


"Clock" is probably either a constant +12 V to keep the clock running,
or maybe it has to do with when the clock is displayed. (Like, maybe
the body computer sends 12 V to it when you open the door, so the
clock comes on with the dome light.) If it's constant 12 V, then I
don't know why it doesn't just use pin 9, but maybe they wanted to put
it on a different circuit.


In the car, they may get fed from a rheostat or PWM box so as to have
something less than 12 V on them. You might apply something like 6 to
8 V DC to pins 1 and 2, only, and see if the display or buttons start
to light up. If that looks good, then ramp up to 12 V. If 12 V looks
good, then yeah, you can just connect pin 2 (illum -) to pin 11 (radio
ground) and pin 1 (illum +) to either pin 9 or pin 10. If 6 or 8 V DC
makes the display or buttons light up insanely bright, then go down on
the voltage a little.


It probably exists on two hard drives at Ford (or their supplier) and
nowhere else. A few repair places, like the one you linked, may have
one, but they probably want to repair your stereo for you rather than
give (or sell) you a copy of the schematic. I wouldn't hold my breath
waiting for one.

Matt Roberds


Hi Matt,

I powered up the unit with by putting 12V to pins 9 and 10. With the unit
powered on and no load or signal, the draw was about 545ma. In standby mode,
the current draw was about 4.5ma. I was checking the illum terminals and
decided not to put 12V to illum + and ground because illum - terminal was
not grounded. However I did put an ohmmeter across the + and - illum
terminals and it was 4.2 ohms. There are 12 lamps on the display board. They
are not in parallel.

I'm going to reinstall the radio tomorrow and see how these numbers compare
to the current drain from the car battery.


Thanks for your reply.
 
G

gregz

Jan 1, 1970
0
David Farber said:
I was given this Ford F87F-18C815-BB factory tuner/cd player to see why it's
draining the car battery to the point where the car won't start. It has
already been removed from the car. I found the pin outs here:
http://carstereohelp.net/wireharness_Ford1.htm According to the owner, only
the antenna and J1 were being used. By the way, since the radio has been
removed from the car, the battery does not abnormally discharge.

It's been a while since I've powered up a car stereo. Do I need 12V on pin 3
(start), pin 4 (clock), pin 9 (battery), pin 10 (run:acc)? Is the "clock"
the actual time of day display or is it the internal clock for the system
processor(s)? Are pins 1 and 2 (illum +/-) just the 12V input that power
whatever accessory lights there are? Can that be jumpered to the 12V line as
well? Is it ok to common ground the illum - pin to pin 11 (radio
gnd)?Basically I want to begin by putting it in standby mode and measuring
the current. Also, does anyone know where to get a schematic for this unit?

Thanks for your replies.

I have no idea of possible similarity. I troubleshot a 95 olds running
battery down. Auto antenna down sensor was bad, producing occasional pulses
to antenna motor. I disconnected motor.

Greg
 
David Farber said:
With the unit powered on and no load or signal, the draw was about
545ma.

About 6.5 watts... that seems reasonable.
In standby mode, the current draw was about 4.5ma.

This shouldn't kill a car battery in good condition. I have heard
various numbers for the acceptable "key off" draw on a car battery but
20 mA is usually somewhere in the ballpark. This is for everything in
the car - the radio station memory, a clock, anything the ECU needs,
security system, etc. 20 mA is 0.48 amp-hours a day, or 6.7 Ah in two
weeks. A car battery is very very roughly 50 Ah plus or minus [1]; with
6.7 Ah gone it will probably still start the car. ("Airport time" is
one name for this - you should be able to leave the car at the airport
for X amount of time and it should still start when you get back.)
I'm going to reinstall the radio tomorrow and see how these numbers
compare to the current drain from the car battery.

You might poke at the harness side of the connectors with a 12 V test
light before you reinstall the radio. Maybe it's not getting the
message that it could go into standby - short to battery power on the
"hot in run" line?

If this car has any aftermarket stereo equipment wired to the factory
head end, you can assume this was done incorrectly and be right about
half the time. Other sources of automotive electrical fun include
aftermarket trailer hookups and driving lights.

If the car has a trunk light or underhood light, look to see if it's
shutting off correctly when the trunk/hood is closed. This can be
a hard-to-catch source of battery drain.

Matt Roberds

[1] Yes, I know they are not rated by their manufacturer or sold this
way. If you use one like a deep-cycle battery instead of a starting
battery, you get roughly 50 Ah. Yes, it's not a good idea to use a
starting battery like a deep-cycle. The 50 Ah number is just there
as a reference for things like this.
 
M

micky

Jan 1, 1970
0
David Farber said:
With the unit powered on and no load or signal, the draw was about
545ma.

About 6.5 watts... that seems reasonable.
In standby mode, the current draw was about 4.5ma.

This shouldn't kill a car battery in good condition. I have heard
various numbers for the acceptable "key off" draw on a car battery but
20 mA is usually somewhere in the ballpark. This is for everything in
the car - the radio station memory, a clock, anything the ECU needs,
security system, etc. 20 mA is 0.48 amp-hours a day, or 6.7 Ah in two
weeks. A car battery is very very roughly 50 Ah plus or minus [1]; with
6.7 Ah gone it will probably still start the car. ("Airport time" is
one name for this - you should be able to leave the car at the airport
for X amount of time and it should still start when you get back.)
I'm going to reinstall the radio tomorrow and see how these numbers
compare to the current drain from the car battery.

You might poke at the harness side of the connectors with a 12 V test
light before you reinstall the radio. Maybe it's not getting the
message that it could go into standby - short to battery power on the
"hot in run" line?

Except then, the radio would likely keep playing. Even if it had a
separate amplifier, that amp is probably on when the radio is on

But even if no sound came from the radio, if the power were on, the
station display would be on, and seek and scan, etc. would work.
If this car has any aftermarket stereo equipment wired to the factory
head end, you can assume this was done incorrectly and be right about
half the time. Other sources of automotive electrical fun include
aftermarket trailer hookups and driving lights.

If the car has a trunk light or underhood light, look to see if it's
shutting off correctly when the trunk/hood is closed. This can be

Or glove box light.

Hard to belive, but I once installed two burglar alarms in the same
car, and that ran down my battery. I thought the second was just a
pager transmitter that would run only when the first alarm told it to,
but it turns out it was sensing current changes all the time.

However, in this car the problem went away when the radio was out, so
if the problem comes back when the radio's back in, and out when it's
out again, that's a big clue it's the radio.
a hard-to-catch source of battery drain.

Matt Roberds

[1] Yes, I know they are not rated by their manufacturer or sold this
way. If you use one like a deep-cycle battery instead of a starting
battery, you get roughly 50 Ah. Yes, it's not a good idea to use a
starting battery like a deep-cycle. The 50 Ah number is just there
as a reference for things like this.
 
D

David Farber

Jan 1, 1970
0
David Farber said:
With the unit powered on and no load or signal, the draw was about
545ma.

About 6.5 watts... that seems reasonable.
In standby mode, the current draw was about 4.5ma.

This shouldn't kill a car battery in good condition. I have heard
various numbers for the acceptable "key off" draw on a car battery but
20 mA is usually somewhere in the ballpark. This is for everything in
the car - the radio station memory, a clock, anything the ECU needs,
security system, etc. 20 mA is 0.48 amp-hours a day, or 6.7 Ah in two
weeks. A car battery is very very roughly 50 Ah plus or minus [1];
with
6.7 Ah gone it will probably still start the car. ("Airport time" is
one name for this - you should be able to leave the car at the airport
for X amount of time and it should still start when you get back.)
I'm going to reinstall the radio tomorrow and see how these numbers
compare to the current drain from the car battery.

You might poke at the harness side of the connectors with a 12 V test
light before you reinstall the radio. Maybe it's not getting the
message that it could go into standby - short to battery power on the
"hot in run" line?

If this car has any aftermarket stereo equipment wired to the factory
head end, you can assume this was done incorrectly and be right about
half the time. Other sources of automotive electrical fun include
aftermarket trailer hookups and driving lights.

If the car has a trunk light or underhood light, look to see if it's
shutting off correctly when the trunk/hood is closed. This can be
a hard-to-catch source of battery drain.

Matt Roberds

[1] Yes, I know they are not rated by their manufacturer or sold this
way. If you use one like a deep-cycle battery instead of a
starting battery, you get roughly 50 Ah. Yes, it's not a good
idea to use a starting battery like a deep-cycle. The 50 Ah
number is just there as a reference for things like this.

This turned out to be quite the adventure. I got a little more information
from the owner. The problem started when the parking brake was pushed down.
(It uses a foot pedal for the parking brake). Somehow her foot dislodged the
connector going to something around the clutch pedal shaft. It has six
terminals and I'm guessing it's some sort of sensor that detects the
position of the clutch so you can start the car? I removed the plug and
checked for damage. It looked fine. I did take a reading of the battery
current before I put the radio back in with everything off before I started
troubleshooting. The reading was 0. Then when I was using my meter later on
I noticed that the DCV button was pressed in and not the DCAmps. At some
point I measured .22A from the battery. I put the radio fuse back in
(somebody had pulled it out so the radio wouldn't be draining the system)
and measured the current. I jumped two about 2 amps. I wasn't writing this
stuff down but I think that's what it was. Next I pulled the radio out again
and left the fuse in. It was still reading too high. Then I pulled the fuse
out and it was still reading too high. Huh? I proceeded to turn "off"
(though I can't specifically remember that it was even lighting up) the dome
light by moving the dome switch to one side. It's a three position switch so
I figured one of the other choices was always off and the other position
would be always on. The light didn't come on so I figured I made the right
choice. Later on I found out that those other two positions of the switch
were for, always on left lamp and always on right lamp. All these little
details that you don't think about beforehand.

So now both doors are closed to make sure the dome lamp won't come on. The
radio and Fuse 29 is removed. The current from the battery is in the 1.8 amp
range. Great. I've done nothing but inspect the system and things are
getting worse. Then I looked at the schematic
http://webpages.charter.net/mrfixiter/Repair/1998_Ford_Truck_Fuse_29.mht
There were four other lines that distributed standby power to the car. They
were the cigarette lighter, flasher, instrument panel, and generic
electronic module / central timer module. I pulled those fuses one at a time
and went back and measured the current. After pulling the lighter fuse, the
current drop to about .8A. Pulling the flasher fuse had no effect. Pulling
the instrument panel fuse lowered it a bit more, and then pulling the last
fuse dropped it down to near nothing. I put on my magnifying glasses and
took a good look at the cigarette lighter. There was some rust or corrosion
in there. By the way, the receptacle itself was not covered/protected so it
made sense that it was getting to look a bit rusty. I took a sharp ended
pick tool and started to scrape away at the corrosion. I put the fuse back
in and the current didn't spike up. In fact with all the fuses put back in,
the current leveled off at .22A. I didn't know if this was an acceptable
reading or not. One of my friends was visiting with me so I asked him if I
could remove the battery cable from his 2001 Honda and check how much
current was flowing from his battery in standby. It was identical .22A. I'm
still waiting to hear back from the owner if the battery made it through the
night or it had to be jump started. That's usually good news when somebody
doesn't call you back when you ask them if your repair went well, isn't it?

Thanks for your reply.
 
David Farber said:
Somehow her foot dislodged the connector going to something around the
clutch pedal shaft. It has six terminals and I'm guessing it's some
sort of sensor that detects the position of the clutch so you can
start the car?

Yeah. There will be at least one contact that doesn't close until the
clutch pedal is fairly far depressed; it is there to prevent the starter
from running unless the driver has stepped on the clutch. (It also
prevents a smart driver from doing something clever, like using the
starter to "walk" the car out of an intersection, off the railroad
tracks, etc.) If the car has cruise control, there will be another
contact that changes state when the clutch pedal is barely depressed;
that one is there to cut out the cruise control if the driver uses the
clutch.
I wasn't writing this stuff down

This is a good way to get lost in the middle of an adventure. :)

This page has been saved by Internet Exploiter... as an email... with
Quoted-Printable damage. Maybe the least useful format that it was
possible to use, which explains why it's IE's default.
After pulling the lighter fuse, the current drop to about .8A.

Does the car have more than one cigarette lighter socket? An extended-
cab pickup might have an extra one in the back seat. Sometimes people
add one in the bed for accessories... sometimes they even get it on the
same fuse as the one in the cab!
By the way, the [cigarette lighter] receptacle itself was not covered/
protected so it made sense that it was getting to look a bit rusty.

I have seen new cars that had a "no smoking" package from the dealer;
the "ashtray" had a flocked lining to serve as a small storage bin, and
there was a plastic plug with handle in place of the cigarette lighter
element. If the lighter socket on this car is in a place where it is
liable to get drinks and debris in it, finding one of those plastic
plugs (dealer? junkyard?), or a rubber stopper with a bolt in it for a
handle, might be a good idea.
In fact with all the fuses put back in, the current leveled off at
.22A. I didn't know if this was an acceptable reading or not.

That's kind of high. In 24 hours that is 5.28 Ah gone from the battery.
That will run the average car battery down to nothing in about ten days.

Some cars have solenoids on the front seat belt reels that allow the
reels to spin more freely when you are getting in and out of the car.
Usually, as soon as you hit the unlock button on the remote or open the
driver's door, the solenoids will turn on. They stay on until either
1) the engine starts or 2) a timeout in the range of 5 to 15 minutes
expires; if you are standing there with the engine not running, you can
sometimes hear a little "tick" from the seat belt reel when the solenoid
turns off. This might account for some of the current draw you are
seeing.

A few newer cars start getting lots of things ready for you when you
open the driver's door. Toyota hybrids will turn on the electric
vacuum pump (which provides brake power assist when the engine isn't
running) and possibly a few other things before you have turned the key.
These eventually time out as well, but the current draw from the 12 V
battery might be surprising for the first minute or two.

Matt Roberds
 
G

gregz

Jan 1, 1970
0
David Farber said:
David Farber said:
With the unit powered on and no load or signal, the draw was about
545ma.

About 6.5 watts... that seems reasonable.
In standby mode, the current draw was about 4.5ma.

This shouldn't kill a car battery in good condition. I have heard
various numbers for the acceptable "key off" draw on a car battery but
20 mA is usually somewhere in the ballpark. This is for everything in
the car - the radio station memory, a clock, anything the ECU needs,
security system, etc. 20 mA is 0.48 amp-hours a day, or 6.7 Ah in two
weeks. A car battery is very very roughly 50 Ah plus or minus [1];
with
6.7 Ah gone it will probably still start the car. ("Airport time" is
one name for this - you should be able to leave the car at the airport
for X amount of time and it should still start when you get back.)
I'm going to reinstall the radio tomorrow and see how these numbers
compare to the current drain from the car battery.

You might poke at the harness side of the connectors with a 12 V test
light before you reinstall the radio. Maybe it's not getting the
message that it could go into standby - short to battery power on the
"hot in run" line?

If this car has any aftermarket stereo equipment wired to the factory
head end, you can assume this was done incorrectly and be right about
half the time. Other sources of automotive electrical fun include
aftermarket trailer hookups and driving lights.

If the car has a trunk light or underhood light, look to see if it's
shutting off correctly when the trunk/hood is closed. This can be
a hard-to-catch source of battery drain.

Matt Roberds

[1] Yes, I know they are not rated by their manufacturer or sold this
way. If you use one like a deep-cycle battery instead of a
starting battery, you get roughly 50 Ah. Yes, it's not a good
idea to use a starting battery like a deep-cycle. The 50 Ah
number is just there as a reference for things like this.

This turned out to be quite the adventure. I got a little more information
from the owner. The problem started when the parking brake was pushed down.
(It uses a foot pedal for the parking brake). Somehow her foot dislodged the
connector going to something around the clutch pedal shaft. It has six
terminals and I'm guessing it's some sort of sensor that detects the
position of the clutch so you can start the car? I removed the plug and
checked for damage. It looked fine. I did take a reading of the battery
current before I put the radio back in with everything off before I started
troubleshooting. The reading was 0. Then when I was using my meter later on
I noticed that the DCV button was pressed in and not the DCAmps. At some
point I measured .22A from the battery. I put the radio fuse back in
(somebody had pulled it out so the radio wouldn't be draining the system)
and measured the current. I jumped two about 2 amps. I wasn't writing this
stuff down but I think that's what it was. Next I pulled the radio out again
and left the fuse in. It was still reading too high. Then I pulled the fuse
out and it was still reading too high. Huh? I proceeded to turn "off"
(though I can't specifically remember that it was even lighting up) the dome
light by moving the dome switch to one side. It's a three position switch so
I figured one of the other choices was always off and the other position
would be always on. The light didn't come on so I figured I made the right
choice. Later on I found out that those other two positions of the switch
were for, always on left lamp and always on right lamp. All these little
details that you don't think about beforehand.

So now both doors are closed to make sure the dome lamp won't come on. The
radio and Fuse 29 is removed. The current from the battery is in the 1.8 amp
range. Great. I've done nothing but inspect the system and things are
getting worse. Then I looked at the schematic
http://webpages.charter.net/mrfixiter/Repair/1998_Ford_Truck_Fuse_29.mht
There were four other lines that distributed standby power to the car. They
were the cigarette lighter, flasher, instrument panel, and generic
electronic module / central timer module. I pulled those fuses one at a time
and went back and measured the current. After pulling the lighter fuse, the
current drop to about .8A. Pulling the flasher fuse had no effect. Pulling
the instrument panel fuse lowered it a bit more, and then pulling the last
fuse dropped it down to near nothing. I put on my magnifying glasses and
took a good look at the cigarette lighter. There was some rust or corrosion
in there. By the way, the receptacle itself was not covered/protected so it
made sense that it was getting to look a bit rusty. I took a sharp ended
pick tool and started to scrape away at the corrosion. I put the fuse back
in and the current didn't spike up. In fact with all the fuses put back in,
the current leveled off at .22A. I didn't know if this was an acceptable
reading or not. One of my friends was visiting with me so I asked him if I
could remove the battery cable from his 2001 Honda and check how much
current was flowing from his battery in standby. It was identical .22A. I'm
still waiting to hear back from the owner if the battery made it through the
night or it had to be jump started. That's usually good news when somebody
doesn't call you back when you ask them if your repair went well, isn't it?

Thanks for your reply.

20 ma. Is about the max draw, everything off. .020 A. I had one power amp
that drew 35 ma. With a poor battery, it would drag it down within a week.

Greg
 
M

micky

Jan 1, 1970
0
David Farber said:
With the unit powered on and no load or signal, the draw was about
545ma.

About 6.5 watts... that seems reasonable.
In standby mode, the current draw was about 4.5ma.

This shouldn't kill a car battery in good condition. I have heard
various numbers for the acceptable "key off" draw on a car battery but
20 mA is usually somewhere in the ballpark. This is for everything in
the car - the radio station memory, a clock, anything the ECU needs,
security system, etc. 20 mA is 0.48 amp-hours a day, or 6.7 Ah in two
weeks. A car battery is very very roughly 50 Ah plus or minus [1];
with
6.7 Ah gone it will probably still start the car. ("Airport time" is
one name for this - you should be able to leave the car at the airport
for X amount of time and it should still start when you get back.)
I'm going to reinstall the radio tomorrow and see how these numbers
compare to the current drain from the car battery.

You might poke at the harness side of the connectors with a 12 V test
light before you reinstall the radio. Maybe it's not getting the
message that it could go into standby - short to battery power on the
"hot in run" line?

If this car has any aftermarket stereo equipment wired to the factory
head end, you can assume this was done incorrectly and be right about
half the time. Other sources of automotive electrical fun include
aftermarket trailer hookups and driving lights.

If the car has a trunk light or underhood light, look to see if it's
shutting off correctly when the trunk/hood is closed. This can be
a hard-to-catch source of battery drain.

Matt Roberds

[1] Yes, I know they are not rated by their manufacturer or sold this
way. If you use one like a deep-cycle battery instead of a
starting battery, you get roughly 50 Ah. Yes, it's not a good
idea to use a starting battery like a deep-cycle. The 50 Ah
number is just there as a reference for things like this.

This turned out to be quite the adventure. I got a little more information
from the owner. The problem started when the parking brake was pushed down.
(It uses a foot pedal for the parking brake)

That's actually a better design. If your hydraulic brakes fail, hold
the foot brake release handle so the brakes don't lock and then use
your foot to apply the "hand brake", "emergency brake". . You can
use it like the regular foot brake. I hate the hand brake between
the seats.
. Somehow her foot dislodged the
connector going to something around the clutch pedal shaft. It has six
terminals and I'm guessing it's some sort of sensor that detects the
position of the clutch so you can start the car? I removed the plug and
checked for damage. It looked fine. I did take a reading of the battery
current before I put the radio back in with everything off before I started
troubleshooting. The reading was 0. Then when I was using my meter later on
I noticed that the DCV button was pressed in and not the DCAmps. At some
point I measured .22A from the battery. I put the radio fuse back in
(somebody had pulled it out so the radio wouldn't be draining the system)

On some cars there are 3 fuses for the radio. GM, for example. I
think you talked aobut this before. One for the clock, so it doesn't
stop when the car is turned off, one for the dash lights,, and one for
the radio itself.
and measured the current. I jumped two about 2 amps. I wasn't writing this

When you're miy age, you'll write it down. But I give you a lot of
credit for using a meter. It's hard to get anyone to use a meter.
(Anyone who doesn't read SER, at leat)
stuff down but I think that's what it was. Next I pulled the radio out again
and left the fuse in. It was still reading too high. Then I pulled the fuse
out and it was still reading too high. Huh?

I know that feeling. When I was 19, the first week I had my '50 olds,
the battery was dead every monring and I had to take my mothers car.

Short, Doconnect, Short Disconnect, Short, Disconnect, no short!!!
Reconnect last disconnected wire. No short, Reconnect wire before
that , No short, Reconnect wire before that. No short.

Up and down, up and down, 3 or 4 levels, 3 or 4 found tirps, and in
1950 there were no quick disconnects.

Finally found it. Glove box light. Every time I got close, I opened
the glove box to get something and if it was closed well before, I
closed it badly. If it was closed badly, I closed it well. That was
also what drained the battery.
:I proceeded to turn "off"
(though I can't specifically remember that it was even lighting up) the dome
light by moving the dome switch to one side. It's a three position switch so
I figured one of the other choices was always off and the other position
would be always on. The light didn't come on so I figured I made the right
choice. Later on I found out that those other two positions of the switch
were for, always on left lamp and always on right lamp. All these little
details that you don't think about beforehand.

So now both doors are closed to make sure the dome lamp won't come on. The
radio and Fuse 29 is removed. The current from the battery is in the 1.8 amp
range. Great. I've done nothing but inspect the system and things are
getting worse. Then I looked at the schematic
http://webpages.charter.net/mrfixiter/Repair/1998_Ford_Truck_Fuse_29.mht
There were four other lines that distributed standby power to the car. They
were the cigarette lighter, flasher, instrument panel, and generic
electronic module / central timer module. I pulled those fuses one at a time
and went back and measured the current. After pulling the lighter fuse, the
current drop to about .8A.

Snmeone may have wired something to the cig lighter circuit. I use
that alot because I almost never use the lighter, so it doesn't
interfere with add-ons.
Pulling the flasher fuse had no effect. Pulling
the instrument panel fuse lowered it a bit more, and then pulling the last
fuse dropped it down to near nothing. I put on my magnifying glasses and
took a good look at the cigarette lighter. There was some rust or corrosion
in there. By the way, the receptacle itself was not covered/protected so it
made sense that it was getting to look a bit rusty. I took a sharp ended
pick tool and started to scrape away at the corrosion. I put the fuse back
in and the current didn't spike up. In fact with all the fuses put back in,
the current leveled off at .22A. I didn't know if this was an acceptable

If you have a decimal point, please put a zero in front of it. With
my monitor, it's about the only way I can tell it's there. Right now
it looks like 22 amps.
reading or not. One of my friends was visiting with me so I asked him if I
could remove the battery cable from his 2001 Honda and check how much
current was flowing from his battery in standby. It was identical .22A. I'm
still waiting to hear back from the owner if the battery made it through the
night or it had to be jump started. That's usually good news when somebody
doesn't call you back when you ask them if your repair went well, isn't it?

I suppose so.
 
M

micky

Jan 1, 1970
0
Yeah. There will be at least one contact that doesn't close until the
clutch pedal is fairly far depressed; it is there to prevent the starter
from running unless the driver has stepped on the clutch. (It also
prevents a smart driver from doing something clever, like using the
starter to "walk" the car out of an intersection, off the railroad
tracks, etc.)

There was a caller on Cartalk where animals shorted the starter cable
and the car moved "down the driveway" which was up a hill, across t he
street, and almost went over a cliff.
If the car has cruise control, there will be another
contact that changes state when the clutch pedal is barely depressed;
that one is there to cut out the cruise control if the driver uses the
clutch.


This is a good way to get lost in the middle of an adventure. :)

Hey, did Indiana Jones take notes?
What the heck is .mht and how come IE reads it but maybe not Firefox?
This page has been saved by Internet Exploiter... as an email... with
Quoted-Printable damage. Maybe the least useful format that it was
possible to use, which explains why it's IE's default.
After pulling the lighter fuse, the current drop to about .8A.

Does the car have more than one cigarette lighter socket? An extended-
cab pickup might have an extra one in the back seat. Sometimes people
add one in the bed for accessories... sometimes they even get it on the
same fuse as the one in the cab!
By the way, the [cigarette lighter] receptacle itself was not covered/
protected so it made sense that it was getting to look a bit rusty.

I have seen new cars that had a "no smoking" package from the dealer;
the "ashtray" had a flocked lining to serve as a small storage bin, and
there was a plastic plug with handle in place of the cigarette lighter
element. If the lighter socket on this car is in a place where it is
liable to get drinks and debris in it, finding one of those plastic
plugs (dealer? junkyard?), or a rubber stopper with a bolt in it for a
handle, might be a good idea.
In fact with all the fuses put back in, the current leveled off at
.22A. I didn't know if this was an acceptable reading or not.

That's kind of high. In 24 hours that is 5.28 Ah gone from the battery.
That will run the average car battery down to nothing in about ten days.

I think I remember Pat Voss saying that if a #54 light bulb would
light with the current going out of the battery, it was too much. #54
is the smallest spherical lne, back when lightbulbs were lightbulbs
and didn't speak some European or Asian langueage. Someday I have to
find out how many hundredsths of an amp is a $54.
Some cars have solenoids on the front seat belt reels that allow the
reels to spin more freely when you are getting in and out of the car.
Usually, as soon as you hit the unlock button on the remote or open the
driver's door, the solenoids will turn on. They stay on until either
1) the engine starts or 2) a timeout in the range of 5 to 15 minutes
expires; if you are standing there with the engine not running, you can
sometimes hear a little "tick" from the seat belt reel when the solenoid
turns off. This might account for some of the current draw you are
seeing.

A few newer cars start getting lots of things ready for you when you
open the driver's door. Toyota hybrids will turn on the electric
vacuum pump (which provides brake power assist when the engine isn't
running) and possibly a few other things before you have turned the key.
These eventually time out as well, but the current draw from the 12 V
battery might be surprising for the first minute or two.

Good to know. I will proably be able to use this in about 7 to 9
years.
 
G

gregz

Jan 1, 1970
0
micky said:
With the unit powered on and no load or signal, the draw was about
545ma.

About 6.5 watts... that seems reasonable.

In standby mode, the current draw was about 4.5ma.

This shouldn't kill a car battery in good condition. I have heard
various numbers for the acceptable "key off" draw on a car battery but
20 mA is usually somewhere in the ballpark. This is for everything in
the car - the radio station memory, a clock, anything the ECU needs,
security system, etc. 20 mA is 0.48 amp-hours a day, or 6.7 Ah in two
weeks. A car battery is very very roughly 50 Ah plus or minus [1];
with
6.7 Ah gone it will probably still start the car. ("Airport time" is
one name for this - you should be able to leave the car at the airport
for X amount of time and it should still start when you get back.)

I'm going to reinstall the radio tomorrow and see how these numbers
compare to the current drain from the car battery.

You might poke at the harness side of the connectors with a 12 V test
light before you reinstall the radio. Maybe it's not getting the
message that it could go into standby - short to battery power on the
"hot in run" line?

If this car has any aftermarket stereo equipment wired to the factory
head end, you can assume this was done incorrectly and be right about
half the time. Other sources of automotive electrical fun include
aftermarket trailer hookups and driving lights.

If the car has a trunk light or underhood light, look to see if it's
shutting off correctly when the trunk/hood is closed. This can be
a hard-to-catch source of battery drain.

Matt Roberds

[1] Yes, I know they are not rated by their manufacturer or sold this
way. If you use one like a deep-cycle battery instead of a
starting battery, you get roughly 50 Ah. Yes, it's not a good
idea to use a starting battery like a deep-cycle. The 50 Ah
number is just there as a reference for things like this.

This turned out to be quite the adventure. I got a little more information
from the owner. The problem started when the parking brake was pushed down.
(It uses a foot pedal for the parking brake)

That's actually a better design. If your hydraulic brakes fail, hold
the foot brake release handle so the brakes don't lock and then use
your foot to apply the "hand brake", "emergency brake". . You can
use it like the regular foot brake. I hate the hand brake between
the seats.


I always have problems with left push down brake. I never had problems with
right center pull handle system. One fault is left hand salt corrosion.
Sometimes they not release. Sometimes you got to pull up to turn lamp off.
I'm always afraid to use the push emergency brake. It's mostly a parking
hold brake, if it works.




On some cars there are 3 fuses for the radio. GM, for example. I
think you talked aobut this before. One for the clock, so it doesn't
stop when the car is turned off, one for the dash lights,, and one for
the radio itself.


When you're miy age, you'll write it down. But I give you a lot of
credit for using a meter. It's hard to get anyone to use a meter.
(Anyone who doesn't read SER, at leat)


I know that feeling. When I was 19, the first week I had my '50 olds,
the battery was dead every monring and I had to take my mothers car.

Short, Doconnect, Short Disconnect, Short, Disconnect, no short!!!
Reconnect last disconnected wire. No short, Reconnect wire before
that , No short, Reconnect wire before that. No short.

Up and down, up and down, 3 or 4 levels, 3 or 4 found tirps, and in
1950 there were no quick disconnects.

Finally found it. Glove box light. Every time I got close, I opened
the glove box to get something and if it was closed well before, I
closed it badly. If it was closed badly, I closed it well. That was
also what drained the battery.

I thought dome light, was a Pittsburgh thing.
It should be a hood light, Britain.


Greg
 
G

gregz

Jan 1, 1970
0
micky said:
Yeah. There will be at least one contact that doesn't close until the
clutch pedal is fairly far depressed; it is there to prevent the starter
from running unless the driver has stepped on the clutch. (It also
prevents a smart driver from doing something clever, like using the
starter to "walk" the car out of an intersection, off the railroad
tracks, etc.)

There was a caller on Cartalk where animals shorted the starter cable
and the car moved "down the driveway" which was up a hill, across t he
street, and almost went over a cliff.
If the car has cruise control, there will be another
contact that changes state when the clutch pedal is barely depressed;
that one is there to cut out the cruise control if the driver uses the
clutch.


This is a good way to get lost in the middle of an adventure. :)

Hey, did Indiana Jones take notes?
What the heck is .mht and how come IE reads it but maybe not Firefox?
This page has been saved by Internet Exploiter... as an email... with
Quoted-Printable damage. Maybe the least useful format that it was
possible to use, which explains why it's IE's default.
After pulling the lighter fuse, the current drop to about .8A.

Does the car have more than one cigarette lighter socket? An extended-
cab pickup might have an extra one in the back seat. Sometimes people
add one in the bed for accessories... sometimes they even get it on the
same fuse as the one in the cab!
By the way, the [cigarette lighter] receptacle itself was not covered/
protected so it made sense that it was getting to look a bit rusty.

I have seen new cars that had a "no smoking" package from the dealer;
the "ashtray" had a flocked lining to serve as a small storage bin, and
there was a plastic plug with handle in place of the cigarette lighter
element. If the lighter socket on this car is in a place where it is
liable to get drinks and debris in it, finding one of those plastic
plugs (dealer? junkyard?), or a rubber stopper with a bolt in it for a
handle, might be a good idea.
In fact with all the fuses put back in, the current leveled off at
.22A. I didn't know if this was an acceptable reading or not.

That's kind of high. In 24 hours that is 5.28 Ah gone from the battery.
That will run the average car battery down to nothing in about ten days.

I think I remember Pat Voss saying that if a #54 light bulb would
light with the current going out of the battery, it was too much. #54
is the smallest spherical lne, back when lightbulbs were lightbulbs
and didn't speak some European or Asian langueage. Someday I have to
find out how many hundredsths of an amp is a $54.
Some cars have solenoids on the front seat belt reels that allow the
reels to spin more freely when you are getting in and out of the car.
Usually, as soon as you hit the unlock button on the remote or open the
driver's door, the solenoids will turn on. They stay on until either
1) the engine starts or 2) a timeout in the range of 5 to 15 minutes
expires; if you are standing there with the engine not running, you can
sometimes hear a little "tick" from the seat belt reel when the solenoid
turns off. This might account for some of the current draw you are
seeing.

A few newer cars start getting lots of things ready for you when you
open the driver's door. Toyota hybrids will turn on the electric
vacuum pump (which provides brake power assist when the engine isn't
running) and possibly a few other things before you have turned the key.
These eventually time out as well, but the current draw from the 12 V
battery might be surprising for the first minute or two.

Good to know. I will proably be able to use this in about 7 to 9
years.
Matt Roberds

Looked for #54 nope. I used to have lamp tables. Google can be useless on
old stuff.

I hate when I open the door on my avalanche, and I hear the navigation disk
being read. Key off.

I once had a ford leaking amperage. Found leaky brake switch. Light was on
dim in the dark, sometimes.

Greg
 
D

David Farber

Jan 1, 1970
0
micky said:
With the unit powered on and no load or signal, the draw was about
545ma.

About 6.5 watts... that seems reasonable.

In standby mode, the current draw was about 4.5ma.

This shouldn't kill a car battery in good condition. I have heard
various numbers for the acceptable "key off" draw on a car battery
but 20 mA is usually somewhere in the ballpark. This is for
everything in the car - the radio station memory, a clock, anything
the ECU needs, security system, etc. 20 mA is 0.48 amp-hours a
day, or 6.7 Ah in two weeks. A car battery is very very roughly 50
Ah plus or minus [1]; with
6.7 Ah gone it will probably still start the car. ("Airport time"
is one name for this - you should be able to leave the car at the
airport for X amount of time and it should still start when you get
back.)

I'm going to reinstall the radio tomorrow and see how these numbers
compare to the current drain from the car battery.

You might poke at the harness side of the connectors with a 12 V
test light before you reinstall the radio. Maybe it's not getting
the message that it could go into standby - short to battery power
on the "hot in run" line?

If this car has any aftermarket stereo equipment wired to the
factory head end, you can assume this was done incorrectly and be
right about half the time. Other sources of automotive electrical
fun include aftermarket trailer hookups and driving lights.

If the car has a trunk light or underhood light, look to see if it's
shutting off correctly when the trunk/hood is closed. This can be
a hard-to-catch source of battery drain.

Matt Roberds

[1] Yes, I know they are not rated by their manufacturer or sold
this way. If you use one like a deep-cycle battery instead of a
starting battery, you get roughly 50 Ah. Yes, it's not a good
idea to use a starting battery like a deep-cycle. The 50 Ah
number is just there as a reference for things like this.

This turned out to be quite the adventure. I got a little more
information from the owner. The problem started when the parking
brake was pushed down. (It uses a foot pedal for the parking brake)

That's actually a better design. If your hydraulic brakes fail, hold
the foot brake release handle so the brakes don't lock and then use
your foot to apply the "hand brake", "emergency brake". . You can
use it like the regular foot brake. I hate the hand brake between
the seats.
. Somehow her foot dislodged the
connector going to something around the clutch pedal shaft. It has
six terminals and I'm guessing it's some sort of sensor that detects
the position of the clutch so you can start the car? I removed the
plug and checked for damage. It looked fine. I did take a reading of
the battery current before I put the radio back in with everything
off before I started troubleshooting. The reading was 0. Then when I
was using my meter later on I noticed that the DCV button was
pressed in and not the DCAmps. At some point I measured .22A from
the battery. I put the radio fuse back in (somebody had pulled it
out so the radio wouldn't be draining the system)

On some cars there are 3 fuses for the radio. GM, for example. I
think you talked aobut this before. One for the clock, so it doesn't
stop when the car is turned off, one for the dash lights,, and one for
the radio itself.
and measured the current. I jumped two about 2 amps. I wasn't
writing this

When you're miy age, you'll write it down. But I give you a lot of
credit for using a meter. It's hard to get anyone to use a meter.
(Anyone who doesn't read SER, at leat)
stuff down but I think that's what it was. Next I pulled the radio
out again and left the fuse in. It was still reading too high. Then
I pulled the fuse out and it was still reading too high. Huh?

I know that feeling. When I was 19, the first week I had my '50 olds,
the battery was dead every monring and I had to take my mothers car.

Short, Doconnect, Short Disconnect, Short, Disconnect, no short!!!
Reconnect last disconnected wire. No short, Reconnect wire before
that , No short, Reconnect wire before that. No short.

Up and down, up and down, 3 or 4 levels, 3 or 4 found tirps, and in
1950 there were no quick disconnects.

Finally found it. Glove box light. Every time I got close, I opened
the glove box to get something and if it was closed well before, I
closed it badly. If it was closed badly, I closed it well. That was
also what drained the battery.
(though I can't specifically remember that it was even lighting up)
the dome light by moving the dome switch to one side. It's a three
position switch so I figured one of the other choices was always off
and the other position would be always on. The light didn't come on
so I figured I made the right choice. Later on I found out that
those other two positions of the switch were for, always on left
lamp and always on right lamp. All these little details that you
don't think about beforehand.

So now both doors are closed to make sure the dome lamp won't come
on. The radio and Fuse 29 is removed. The current from the battery
is in the 1.8 amp range. Great. I've done nothing but inspect the
system and things are getting worse. Then I looked at the schematic
http://webpages.charter.net/mrfixiter/Repair/1998_Ford_Truck_Fuse_29.mht
There were four other lines that distributed standby power to the
car. They were the cigarette lighter, flasher, instrument panel, and
generic electronic module / central timer module. I pulled those
fuses one at a time and went back and measured the current. After
pulling the lighter fuse, the current drop to about .8A.

Snmeone may have wired something to the cig lighter circuit. I use
that alot because I almost never use the lighter, so it doesn't
interfere with add-ons.
Pulling the flasher fuse had no effect. Pulling
the instrument panel fuse lowered it a bit more, and then pulling
the last fuse dropped it down to near nothing. I put on my
magnifying glasses and took a good look at the cigarette lighter.
There was some rust or corrosion in there. By the way, the
receptacle itself was not covered/protected so it made sense that it
was getting to look a bit rusty. I took a sharp ended pick tool and
started to scrape away at the corrosion. I put the fuse back in and
the current didn't spike up. In fact with all the fuses put back in,
the current leveled off at .22A. I didn't know if this was an
acceptable

If you have a decimal point, please put a zero in front of it. With
my monitor, it's about the only way I can tell it's there. Right now
it looks like 22 amps.
reading or not. One of my friends was visiting with me so I asked
him if I could remove the battery cable from his 2001 Honda and
check how much current was flowing from his battery in standby. It
was identical .22A. I'm still waiting to hear back from the owner if
the battery made it through the night or it had to be jump started.
That's usually good news when somebody doesn't call you back when
you ask them if your repair went well, isn't it?

I suppose so.
Thanks for your reply.

Excellent point about the leading zero when displaying numbers less than
zero. I will adopt that format.

I finally did get in touch with the owner and I was told that the battery is
holding up quite nicely. I probably should have mentioned that during the
initial inspection, there was a bit of corrosion on the positive battery
terminal post which was cleaned off. The connecting terminals to the battery
cables were also cleaned.

Thanks for your reply.
 
D

David Farber

Jan 1, 1970
0
gregz said:
micky said:
Somehow her foot dislodged the connector going to something around
the clutch pedal shaft. It has six terminals and I'm guessing it's
some sort of sensor that detects the position of the clutch so you
can start the car?

Yeah. There will be at least one contact that doesn't close until
the clutch pedal is fairly far depressed; it is there to prevent
the starter from running unless the driver has stepped on the
clutch. (It also prevents a smart driver from doing something
clever, like using the starter to "walk" the car out of an
intersection, off the railroad tracks, etc.)

There was a caller on Cartalk where animals shorted the starter cable
and the car moved "down the driveway" which was up a hill, across t
he street, and almost went over a cliff.
If the car has cruise control, there will be another
contact that changes state when the clutch pedal is barely
depressed; that one is there to cut out the cruise control if the
driver uses the clutch.

I wasn't writing this stuff down

This is a good way to get lost in the middle of an adventure. :)

Hey, did Indiana Jones take notes?

What the heck is .mht and how come IE reads it but maybe not Firefox?
This page has been saved by Internet Exploiter... as an email...
with Quoted-Printable damage. Maybe the least useful format that
it was possible to use, which explains why it's IE's default.

After pulling the lighter fuse, the current drop to about .8A.

Does the car have more than one cigarette lighter socket? An
extended- cab pickup might have an extra one in the back seat.
Sometimes people add one in the bed for accessories... sometimes
they even get it on the same fuse as the one in the cab!

By the way, the [cigarette lighter] receptacle itself was not
covered/ protected so it made sense that it was getting to look a
bit rusty.

I have seen new cars that had a "no smoking" package from the
dealer; the "ashtray" had a flocked lining to serve as a small
storage bin, and there was a plastic plug with handle in place of
the cigarette lighter element. If the lighter socket on this car
is in a place where it is liable to get drinks and debris in it,
finding one of those plastic plugs (dealer? junkyard?), or a rubber
stopper with a bolt in it for a handle, might be a good idea.

In fact with all the fuses put back in, the current leveled off at
.22A. I didn't know if this was an acceptable reading or not.

That's kind of high. In 24 hours that is 5.28 Ah gone from the
battery. That will run the average car battery down to nothing in
about ten days.

I think I remember Pat Voss saying that if a #54 light bulb would
light with the current going out of the battery, it was too much.
#54 is the smallest spherical lne, back when lightbulbs were
lightbulbs and didn't speak some European or Asian langueage.
Someday I have to find out how many hundredsths of an amp is a $54.
Some cars have solenoids on the front seat belt reels that allow the
reels to spin more freely when you are getting in and out of the
car. Usually, as soon as you hit the unlock button on the remote or
open the driver's door, the solenoids will turn on. They stay on
until either 1) the engine starts or 2) a timeout in the range of 5
to 15 minutes expires; if you are standing there with the engine
not running, you can sometimes hear a little "tick" from the seat
belt reel when the solenoid turns off. This might account for some
of the current draw you are seeing.

A few newer cars start getting lots of things ready for you when you
open the driver's door. Toyota hybrids will turn on the electric
vacuum pump (which provides brake power assist when the engine isn't
running) and possibly a few other things before you have turned the
key. These eventually time out as well, but the current draw from
the 12 V battery might be surprising for the first minute or two.

Good to know. I will proably be able to use this in about 7 to 9
years.
Matt Roberds

Looked for #54 nope. I used to have lamp tables. Google can be
useless on old stuff.

I hate when I open the door on my avalanche, and I hear the
navigation disk being read. Key off.

I once had a ford leaking amperage. Found leaky brake switch. Light
was on dim in the dark, sometimes.

Greg

Somewhere in my shop I used to have a book will those bulbs listed. I'm
fairly certain it had current ratings. I'll do some hunting and let you
know.
 
micky said:
I think I remember Pat Voss saying that if a #54 light bulb would
light with the current going out of the battery, it was too much. #54
is the smallest spherical lne, back when lightbulbs were lightbulbs
and didn't speak some European or Asian langueage.

Somewhere around here I have a Wagner Lighting catalog (on dead tree
slices) that has most of the automotive lamps in it. I was looking for
an update to it recently and found
http://www.candelacorp.com/products/lighting/pdf/catalog_min.pdf ,
whose interior pages look almost exactly like the Wagner catalog.

Unfortunately the Sunray catalog above doesn't have a #54. #53 is a
G-3.5 bulb (0.463" sphere) rated at 14.4 V, 0.12 A, 1.0 mean spherical
candlepower. #55 is a G-4.5 bulb (0.588" sphere) rated at 7.0 V,
0.41 A, 2.0 MSCP.

Hmm... http://www.donsbulbs.com/cgi-bin/r/b.pl/54.html says #54 is
G-3.5, 12 V, 1 A, 12 W. Somehow I kind of doubt 12 watts in this size
bulb.

Standard disclaimers apply; I don't get money or other consideration
from any companies mentioned.

Matt Roberds
 
M

micky

Jan 1, 1970
0
Somewhere around here I have a Wagner Lighting catalog (on dead tree
slices) that has most of the automotive lamps in it. I was looking for
an update to it recently and found
http://www.candelacorp.com/products/lighting/pdf/catalog_min.pdf ,
whose interior pages look almost exactly like the Wagner catalog.

Unfortunately the Sunray catalog above doesn't have a #54. #53 is a
G-3.5 bulb (0.463" sphere) rated at 14.4 V, 0.12 A, 1.0 mean spherical
candlepower. #55 is a G-4.5 bulb (0.588" sphere) rated at 7.0 V,
0.41 A, 2.0 MSCP.

Hmm... http://www.donsbulbs.com/cgi-bin/r/b.pl/54.html says #54 is
G-3.5, 12 V, 1 A, 12 W. Somehow I kind of doubt 12 watts in this size
bulb.

Standard disclaimers apply; I don't get money or other consideration
from any companies mentioned.

Matt Roberds

Thanks for the effort. You're going to kill me. It may have been a
#27, half of 54, or even something else. I have one in a toolbox,
complete with a socket and a couple wires.. If I can find it, I'll
post the bulb number and the resistance.
 
M

micky

Jan 1, 1970
0
.................
Looked for #54 nope. I used to have lamp tables. Google can be useless on
old stuff.

That's true. Although I t hink the net is the underlying problem.
I worked in an election in 1970 where we lost by 4 votes out of 50,000
cast, and there's basically nothing about it on google. (And even
though I was from out of town, I talked to 4 people the next day who
said they meant to vote for my guy, but didn't get around to it. )
I hate when I open the door on my avalanche, and I hear the navigation disk
being read. Key off.
Wow.

I once had a ford leaking amperage. Found leaky brake switch. Light was on
dim in the dark, sometimes.

Wow. Bad switch design, I guess. I can imagine a closed switch not
being well closed, but open should surely be open. I guess I should
check my brake lights now.
 
micky said:
You're going to kill me.

It's just 12 volts... wear rubber gloves if you're that worried. :)
If I can find it, I'll post the bulb number and the resistance.

Well, the cold resistance. I measured an 1157 tail lamp bulb hot and
cold and the hot resistance was 11 to 12 times greater than the cold.

Matt Roberds
 
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