Fluorescent ballasts anyone?

[Mike Monett]

Mike Monett wrote:

And AFAIK ozone and water turns into hydrogen peroxide - H2O2. Which
you could just add to the water.

Thomas

I'm not sure that would help. H2O2 is very interesting, but not many sites
recommend using it to kill bacteria. US Peroxide is one of the largest
manufacturers of H2O2, and their applications regarding H2O2 used with
drinking water are to destroy the ozone used to disinfect it. See

SURFACE WATER TREATMENT

Taste & Odor Removal / Ozone Enhancement

Residual Ozone Destruction

http://www.h2o2.com/applications/municipaldrinkingwater.html

Also, natural sunlight generates H2O2 in water due to the UV energy. See

Safe - Despite its power, H2O2 is a natural metabolite of many organisms,
which decompose the H2O2 they produce into oxygen and water. H2O2 is also
formed by the action of sunlight on water - a natural purification system
for our environment. Consequently, H2O2 has none of the problems of gaseous
release or chemical residues that are associated with other chemical
oxidants. And since H2O2 is totally miscible with water, the issue of
safety is one of concentration. Industrial strength H2O2 is a strong
oxidizer and as such requires special handling precautions.

Versatile - The fact that H2O2 is used for seemingly converse applications
proves its versatility. For example, it can inhibit microbial growth (as in
the biofouling of water circuits) and encourage microbial growth (as in the
bioremediation of contaminated groundwaters and soils). Similarly, it can
treat both easy-to-oxidize pollutants (iron and sulfides) and difficult to
oxidize pollutants (solvents, gasolines and pesticides).

Selective - The reason why H2O2 can be used for such diverse applications
is the different ways in which its power can be directed -- termed
selectivity. By simply adjusting the conditions of the reaction (e.g., pH,
temperature, dose, reaction time, and/or catalyst addition), H2O2 can often
be made to oxidize one pollutant over another, or even to favor different
oxidation products from the same pollutant

http://www.h2o2.com/intro/overview.html

It does say H2O2 can be used to control, or to stimulate microbial growth.
So you would have to figure out which you want to do, and what it takes to
accomplish it.

But it looks like you don't want to add H2O2 upstream of the ozone
injector to prevent destroying the ozone, and just let normal UV radiation
from the sun make it in the pool.

Regards,

Mike Monett

 

[Jeff L]

Sergey Kubushin wrote:

[snip]

...Another problem is that its powered with 220V, not
regular 120V. There are some 277V ballasts at Home Depot, will they work
on 220V? Do those T5 germicidal bulb filaments work at the same voltage as
T8 and T12, i.e. can I use e.g. T12 Rapid Start Ballast?

[snip]

If it is hard to get 220V ballasts in the US then I would suggest getting
some ballasts from a European E-bay seller or something like that. There
are some German guys selling lots of interesting lighting equipment. As
far as I know, the fluorescent tubes are the same, just the ballasts are
different for 220V-240V countries and 120V countries. Perhaps someone else
could confirm or deny this.

Chris

I know that the tubes that use a simple magnetic ballast and an a igniter of
some sort are different - I imported some equipment that had a setup like
this and was set up for European power. The bulbs would work fine off 208V
60Hz using the original setup. They would not ignite off of an instant start
electronic ballast designed for T8's and T12's. There were some smaller
fixtures with T8's, and they seem to be the same, and work fine after a
ballast change.

 

[Jeff L]

Go to google, type in: 40W t5 ballast - you should get a ton of hits
relating to usable ballasts. 40W means the electrical power, and T5 denotes,
the tube's electrical characteristics. The rest of your bulb type does not
matter, electrically, since that is the light output type, coatings, rated
life, and physical size and shape of the tube, pins, etc.


The other option is to ask the company where you bought the tubes what
ballast to use.

Jeff

 

[Sergey Kubushin]

Go to google, type in: 40W t5 ballast - you should get a ton of hits
relating to usable ballasts. 40W means the electrical power, and T5 denotes,
the tube's electrical characteristics. The rest of your bulb type does not
matter, electrically, since that is the light output type, coatings, rated
life, and physical size and shape of the tube, pins, etc.

It does. Germicidal T5 bulbs are very different from regular T5s.
Electrically different. Despite having the same diameter. They will NOT work
(at least reliably) with regular T5 ballast. However they DO work fine with
a regular T12 ballast be it switch start, rapid or instant start, magnetic
or electronic.

I do already run a couple of G36T5VH bulbs off of $20 electronic 2 x 48W T12
instant start ballast (Workhorse) and they are fine.

I did also run a couple of preheat T5 germicidal bulbs with $18 Electronic
Rapid Start 2 x 40W T12 ballast from Home Depot and they are also quite
happy.

Those germicidal lamps, if they are regular, not HO or VHO, all have 425 mA
working current. Regular T5s are different and they are not designed to run
from anything but high frequency electronic ballast at all. Regular T12 are
usually run at 430 mA. T12 HO are 800 mA (exactly as germicidal T5 HO) and
T12 VHO are 1.5 A (exactly as germicidal T5 VHO.)

 

[joseph2k]

And you expect to get taken seriously now ?

Graham

You haven't dipped your wick in ozone producing lamps have you? Really read
the posts and learn. Do OP a favor and google before posting pure opinion.

 

[joseph2k]

[dd]

Best I can find is two Philips products...

G36T6H and G36T6VH.

The G36T6H is a nominally 39 watt lamp with nominal length 36 inches and
supposedly a germicidal lamp with "high" ozone production. Philips
product number is 046677-28888-6.

The G36T6VH is a nominally 39 watt lamp with nominal length 37 inches
(including lampholders for this one) and supposedly a germicidal lamp with
"very high" ozone production. Philips product number is 046677-28887-3.

Yeah, they're fine and I do also have two of those but unfortunately my,
sorry for an expression, "ozone generator" is 33-1/2" long so they don't fit
in it. The original bulb was called UWQ-825T5/40W and it's 30" long.

Maybe ask bulbs.com if they can get you any. Both are supposedly
"slimline" single pin models, presumably "instant start", and I recommend
getting an engineer at Philips to recommend a ballast for you.

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm trying to avoid. I don't believe in exclusive
ballasts for $150 each and Philips engineers to buy a mere ballast. This is
NOT rocket science, it's just a low pressure bulb that's only difference
from a regular fluorescent bulb is lack of luminophore. I don't want
Philips, Sylvania, GE etc. bulbs and matching ballasts because one never
knows when they start caring of our health and discontinue those bulbs or
replace them with something "even better". A want _a_ bulb and _a_ ballast
that I can buy in _a_ department store.

---
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Ozone producing lamps are never, never sold at home improvement stores. Old
regular "old, old standard" ballast (ca 1940) should work fine. The lamp
was described a a preheat type, was it not. Working ballasts for such
lamps are a bit hard to find now.

OP lamps have a different glass that transmits the ozone producing line.
Germicidal lamps do not normally pass this line for safety reasons.

 

[joseph2k]

You are right, UV germicidal lamps are used to treat the water directly.
Unfortunately, the combination of low power and short contact time means
they are often not very effective. I have seen the cartridges you have to
replace periodically jammed full of bacteria. Apparently they were
sunbathing in the light

However, Sergey's application appears to be different. According to this
url, air is passed over the bulb then the ozone is injected into the water:

http://www.appliedozone.com/pz_series.html

However, I was under the impression that UV was not a very efficient method
of making ozone, especially considering it has to make enough to treat an
entire pool.

Regards,

Mike Monett

Actually ozone producing lamps are sufficiently efficient to be used a
municipal water supply disinfectant, and are used so regularly. Wow, it
was about 20 years ago that i provided professional input to a decision to
use ozone or chloramines in such a plant.

 

[joseph2k]

power.

I haven't seen a trace of algae when this thing were working. And I even
wasn't that hard on chemicals. Now, when it's dead for something like 2
months, I have a substantial algae growth, with green spots on pool wals
that I can't even remove despite weekly chlorine "shock" treatments, heavy
algaecide usage and lot of other efforts.

Yes, I do know ozone is unstable. But injecting ozone in the pool water for
a couple of weeks gets rid of that nasty vegetation. I had not read it in
advertizements, I can clearly see it in my own backyard.

---
******************************************************************
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* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************

Thank you Sergey, that is solid testimony to the disinfecting power of
ozone. Moreover the long lasting toxicity of chloramines and long term
exposure problems are starting to be documented.

 

[Mike Monett]

Thank you Sergey, that is solid testimony to the disinfecting power of
ozone. Moreover the long lasting toxicity of chloramines and long term
exposure problems are starting to be documented.

Hi Joseph,

I have a question. I use pure distilled water in a silver electrolysis
process.

Sometimes there are problems that appear to be due to something in the
water, and changing vendors often helps. The conductance of different
vendor's products measured with a Hanna Pure Water Tester can range from
0.6uS to 1.2uS. So there is nothing obvious in the measurement that points
to something in the water, but it sure doesn't work very well.

Do you have more information on problems with chloramines, particularly how
to detect their presence, what effects they may have on an elctrolysis
process, and how to remove them from the water?

Thanks!

Regards,

Mike Monett

 

[Sjouke Burry]

Hi Joseph,

I have a question. I use pure distilled water in a silver electrolysis
process.

Sometimes there are problems that appear to be due to something in the
water, and changing vendors often helps. The conductance of different
vendor's products measured with a Hanna Pure Water Tester can range from
0.6uS to 1.2uS. So there is nothing obvious in the measurement that points
to something in the water, but it sure doesn't work very well.

Do you have more information on problems with chloramines, particularly how
to detect their presence, what effects they may have on an elctrolysis
process, and how to remove them from the water?

Thanks!

Regards,

Mike Monett

Watch out for de-ionized water,which they
try to sell as distilled water,because all
the gunk that was not ionized is still present,
and might de-compose when subjected to
heat/pressure/aging etc.
Distilled water should be free of that.
At most gas stations they seem to try to
sell you de-ionized.

 

[Rich Grise]

Go to google, type in: 40W t5 ballast - you should get a ton of hits
relating to usable ballasts. 40W means the electrical power, and T5 denotes,
the tube's electrical characteristics. The rest of your bulb type does not
matter, electrically, since that is the light output type, coatings, rated
life, and physical size and shape of the tube, pins, etc.

Actually, T-5 refers to the physical form factor of the bulb. In this case,
it's tubular, 5/8" diameter. It doesn't say anything about phosphors or
anything, and it doesn't say anything about the electrical characteristics;
that's covered by "40W" and whether it's quick-start and stuff like that.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[joseph2k]

Hi Joseph,

I have a question. I use pure distilled water in a silver electrolysis
process.

Sometimes there are problems that appear to be due to something in the
water, and changing vendors often helps. The conductance of different
vendor's products measured with a Hanna Pure Water Tester can range from
0.6uS to 1.2uS. So there is nothing obvious in the measurement that points
to something in the water, but it sure doesn't work very well.

Do you have more information on problems with chloramines, particularly how
to detect their presence, what effects they may have on an elctrolysis
process, and how to remove them from the water?

Thanks!

Regards,

Mike Monett

I have discovered that a lot of what is sold at the grocery store as
distilled water or de-ionized water is just filtered water. They both can
all kinds of junk in them including particulates.
If you actually have a sensitive industrial process going you need to look
into industrial grades of distilled and de-ionized water. The properties
of the two are a little different, so read up on the differences and select
what you need.
Finally, semiconductor process water or pharmaceutical process water is the
purest available and is only made on the spot. It is next to impossible to
keep water that pure for long because at that purity is truly is the
universal solvent. Average impurities < 10 parts per trillion (10^12) or
better, both industries are looking for less than 1 part in 10^21.