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Florida Power & Light peak demand control boxes

Discussion in 'Home Power and Microgeneration' started by Nancy Torres, Jul 31, 2007.

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  1. Nancy Torres

    Nancy Torres Guest

    ".....
    (florida power and light) has a program where they attach control boxes
    to a customers appliances so they can 'brown them out' in times of peak
    demand for a brief period. The customer gets a discount on their bill
    for allowing this. These control boxes are sent commands over the power
    lines. ...and ...use a 154 MHz range
    control receiver with a loop antenna in the PVC box......"

    the above is from a post some years ago, describing the program FPL runs
    in S. Florida (and perhaps the rest of the state)

    my question is this, if I switch off the FPL grid and go on generator power,
    will the control box kill my generator feed for the pool pump, water heater and
    air conditioner? my generator covers the entire house, not just some part of it.

    I've asked FPL and I've asked their contractor who does the install and they don't
    know!
     
  2. Since the appliances are recieving a RF signal over the wire.
    The interlock for the generator will kill that signal.Unless ,of course, you
    are generating that signal yourself at the generator.
    TXU and numerous other utilities have used a sub carrier over light lines
    for decades.
    Can remember some home doing that as well with intercoms.You plug one unit
    in a wall here and the other in a wall there.
    And the home wiring carrys the rf signal.Light companies did it to reduce
    phone bills on interoffice/shop calls.In later years
    they added a call forwarding version of the 1-800- number....You call the
    light company about lightening strike that had a transformer
    leaping off a pole.And the central office picksup hundreds of miles away on
    the service call..Unknow to you is that 90% of the wire
    the phone call ran over was powerline as a sub carrier.They also do that
    with data as well....as among other things your control boxes will
    confirm.Meters are another of the growing data over powerline uses.It isn't
    just company computers talking to each other on an ethernet sub carrier
    anymore.
     
  3. Nancy Torres

    Nancy Torres Guest

    allow me to confirm, as I did not understand all of your reply.

    I have no idea what an "interlock for the generator" means? or how I would be
    signaling such myself.

    my generator startup requires me to transfer off the FPL Main at which point the gen
    can be started and it runs my multi-stage heat pump on stage1 (cooling like an AC), as
    well as the rest of my house.

    since the signaling devices are still attached to the AC, water heater and pool pump,
    how are these devices "aware" that I have come off FPL Main ?
     
  4. Guest

    Oh? :)

    Nick
     
  5. You

    You Guest

    Obviously, you never heard of the "Inverse Square Law" for RF
    Propagation........
     

  6. I don't know the specifics of the FPL setup, and you're
    absolutely right that they can't send a 150 mhz signal
    from their generator the 50 miles (back of
    envelope, semi-made up figure) from their control
    center to the home, but...

    .... if they've got fiber SCADA to the local transformers
    they could (at least technically) send it the hundreds
    or even some thousand of feet.

    That's part of the concept behind the vairious
    power companies trying to play with BPL (Broadcast
    over Power Lines - internet and phone service over
    your utiity power cable).
     
  7. Then why isn't the lady next door who is getting free nat gas to heat
    her house, pool and cooking getting caught? The meter's running.
     
  8. Morris Dovey

    Morris Dovey Guest

    Jim wrote:
    | ||
    ||| All rf signals have a propagation limitation of the inverse
    ||| cube of the
    ||| distance.
    ||
    || Oh? :)
    ||
    || Nick
    ||
    | That's the way I remember it. Have I blown it again? I don't
    | see how it can be any other way...... BTW, I have held an FCC
    | license since 1988.

    Sorry, but you really did. Review time.

    (WB0YEF since 1975)

    The signal/field strength varies with inverse square of the distance,
    and the only limits on propagation is the sensitivity of the receiver
    and the ability to pull a signal out of the background noise. Keeps
    astronomers is business...
     
  9. You

    You Guest

    Yea well, I can understand that situation...also No Power company is
    using VHF to do RF over Powerline Transmissions as it wouldn't propigate
    down the Line very far in the First Place, and in the Second Place,
    this type of RF Transmission "Carrier Current" has been around for YEARS,
    as when I was a very young Lad, I was Chief Engineer, for a Student
    Radio Station at my College, that used Carrier Current Transmission to
    all the Dorms. Typically Carrier Current Transmissions are LF/MF/HF
    Frequency Transmissions. There recent incarnation is IP over PowerLines
    and that uses a LOT of the spectrum and ius supposed to be a Part 15
    Operation, but the OEMs Cheat a whole LOT, when the set that up.

    have held a 2st Class RadioTelegraph Ticket since I was 18, and a
    1st Class RadioTelegraph with Radar and Aircraft Endorsement since
    I was 23. Now I am just OLD and Fat....
     
  10. NotMe

    NotMe Guest

    | In article <>,
    |
    | > | > > In article <>,
    | > >
    | > >> All rf signals have a propagation limitation of the inverse cube of
    the
    | > >> distance.
    | > >
    | > > Obviously, you never heard of the "Inverse Square Law" for RF
    | > > Propagation........
    | >
    | > I must have heard of it and misremembered it. I have been dealing
    with
    | > it for 19 years coming up on the 13th..... I thought it was the cube.
    | > You live and learn; or you don't live long.
    | >
    | >
    |
    | Yea well, I can understand that situation...also No Power company is
    | using VHF to do RF over Powerline Transmissions as it wouldn't propigate
    | down the Line very far in the First Place, and in the Second Place,
    | this type of RF Transmission "Carrier Current" has been around for YEARS,
    | as when I was a very young Lad, I was Chief Engineer, for a Student
    | Radio Station at my College, that used Carrier Current Transmission to
    | all the Dorms. Typically Carrier Current Transmissions are LF/MF/HF
    | Frequency Transmissions. There recent incarnation is IP over PowerLines
    | and that uses a LOT of the spectrum and ius supposed to be a Part 15
    | Operation, but the OEMs Cheat a whole LOT, when the set that up.
    |
    | have held a 2st Class RadioTelegraph Ticket since I was 18, and a
    | 1st Class RadioTelegraph with Radar and Aircraft Endorsement since
    | I was 23. Now I am just OLD and Fat....

    Given that most power lines have fiber in the core the power company could
    but I have no idea if the would.
     
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