Maker Pro
Maker Pro

Florescent light bulbs?

E

Elder

Jan 1, 1970
0
It is possible to live "off the grid", i.e. without using electricity
from the utility company. People do it. There are websites
devoted to it. This isn't news.
Oh I know. Between wind turbines, small scale hydro electric running of
brooks and streams, and solar for hot water and electric, in a rural
setting it is easy to either use 12v DC with battery storage or even use
battery storage, innefficient but working inverter technology and DC
power.

One day I plan to do it.
 
E

Elder

Jan 1, 1970
0
The biggest saving I got was when I moved. Electricity is about 40% cheaper
at the new home 10 minuites away. I have fun trying to burn electricity.
In the UK, we can buy from any electric company selling in the country.
It all comes down the same wires, all that changes is, who bills you and
how much they charge. And none of them are cheap, because a lot of
electric is gas generated anyway.
 
R

Richard Henry

Jan 1, 1970
0
Elder said:
In the UK, we can buy from any electric company selling in the country.
It all comes down the same wires, all that changes is, who bills you and
how much they charge. And none of them are cheap, because a lot of
electric is gas generated anyway.

So if your supplier's generator goes down, do they send people around
to shut down their customers?
 
R

Richard Henry

Jan 1, 1970
0
CoreyWhite said:
Hydrogen eats away at the
ozone and the pure H20 steam from nuclear power plants is a greeen
house gas.

Pure H2O in the atmosphere is self-correcting. Perhaps you have heard
of rain?
 
R

Richard Henry

Jan 1, 1970
0
Don said:
No, but all of their electricity is radioactive.
Woud YOU want radioactive electricity in YOUR house?

It makes it easier to find the wires hidden in the walls.
 
Z

Zak

Jan 1, 1970
0
qrk said:
Instead of using toxic illuminators (our fine city has classified
florescent lamps as hazardous material), Cree has some white LEDs that
are close to the efficiency of florescent lamps. They should last
longer and won't break when a juggling club smacks the assembly.

LEDs aren't there yet, efficiency or color constantness wise, though
they can do very well if directed light or low power is needed.

The efficiency given is often at 25 degrees chip temperature. But with
the chip dissipating a watt or more, the junction temperature is quite a
bit higher.

But a mixture of gallium and arsenic is not very friendly either. We'll
see when LEDs win from gas discharge - or maybe MH lamps take over.


Thomas
 
tesla's lamp is basically a short electrodeless neon tube, a foot or so
long filled with willemite (copper doped zinc sulfide) phosphor ,
driven by a spark gap excited tesla coil. So wonderful if you like a
bright green light. He didnt invent it either, he made a matching
network for one of his coils to drive it.

I have a few 1960's 40 watt Sylvania tubes with a enhanced
willemite coating, probably very, very , cheap on the electric bill, ie
great bang for the buck, as the yellow green is at the peak of the
daylight vision curve, they are really bright for the current
consumed, make a decent sized room painful to be in, but what a nasty
color for most tasks. Its so bright it will give you a migrane.

One of them does a decent job of lighting a 1 acre back yard. Much
brighter then my 70 watt HPS. (thats high pressure sodium lamp, if you
feel gothic)

So yes, nutcase tesla freak, I'd be glad to sell you a accurate ,
modern implementation of the tesla lamp, with one spare tube, huge
line filter and RF ballast, for say 5000 US Dollars.
Only glitch is it is hot cathode, but whats a few glass to metal seals
gonna hurt. ;-)

Steve Roberts
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Pure H2O in the atmosphere is self-correcting. Perhaps you have heard
of rain?

So adding excess man-made water to the atmosphere has no effect on
weather?

Now THAT'S a greenie weenie conclusion.

...Jim Thompson
 
GregS said:
I have been using CF's for a few years. Probably bought at least 30.,
In my experiance the life is as predicted, however incandesants
can last longer than typical. espically some rugged ones.
I bougth on CF at The Home Depot several years ago. I modified one
of those tall halogen floor lamps and bought the extra expensive CF
that works with lamp dimmers. Worked great. Lets not talk
about noise.

greg



The local Big Lots had a sale once: 4-pack of 25W (roughly equivalent
to 100W incandescent) compact fluorescents for $2. I bought about 10
packages (40 bulbs).

They're white lights, too - not the yellow ones that you commonly find.
Only other brand I know of that gives white light is Sylvania (hard to
find - from Lowe's) - and we've tried a bunch.

Not sure if there's a Big Lots in your area, but it's worth a shot.

Michale
 
J

Joel Kolstad

Jan 1, 1970
0
Tim,

Tim Wescott said:
Right. A florescent bulb costs $9.99, 40kWh costs diddly, and so does an
incandescent bulb.

I believe the 4 packs of GE compact fluorescents are $9.99 at your local Wally
World --> $2.50 each.

I haven't seen the kind of prices Graham is quoting for non-"no name" bulbs.
 
T

T Wake

Jan 1, 1970
0
Richard Henry said:
So if your supplier's generator goes down, do they send people around
to shut down their customers?

Generally, no.
 
J

Joel Kolstad

Jan 1, 1970
0
Richard Henry said:
It makes it easier to find the wires hidden in the walls.

A joke Europeans like to make about the U.S. is that you can find the wires in
the walls just by feeling for the heat. :)

(230V vs. 115V, blah, blah...)
 
Jonathan said:
I very much am reading this for good, measured experiences. I see
Osram mentioned and I haven't tried theirs. I may have to search for
them and see. But Philips is not on my 'good' list, right now. At
least, not those Marathon units sold through Costco.

Jon

I've gotten excellent service from most brands of CFL, which I've
relied on nearly exclusively for the past many (8-9?) years. Mine are
mostly ceiling-mounted, down-facing, without enclosures (thus avoiding
early death by self-heating).

Some brands, frequently cycled, failed very prematurely. Others have
lasted me years and years of daily use even in the bathroom, where the
light's constantly going on and off.

For me, the bulbs are flat out cheaper to buy, even costing 5x,
because they outlast incandescents by a greater factor. On top of
that, using, for example, a 13W CFL in place of a 75W incandescent
saves roughly 62W x 5,000 hours = 310KWh of electricity over the life
of the bulb, which would've cost me 310KWh x 12.8 cents, or about $40.
CFLs are much cheaper to operate.

Locally, the CFLs are now subsidized by the power company[*], and are
available to the consumer for $1.

Other benefits are: time saved in replacing bulbs, fewer trips to the
store, etc. I count saved time heavily--replacing bulbs isn't
painful, but it's not my mission in life. Oh yes--let's not forget
cute inverters/free electronic parts from the expended bulbs!

Drawbacks: slow ignition time in certain brands (I avoid those, but
have one in service), and concerns about the environmental impact of
using a disposable product that contains mercury.

[*] Which of course really means they're subsidized *very
inefficiently* by the customers and taxpayers, after a huge load of
bureaucratic nonsense, making CFLs cost MORE, not less.

Best,
James Arthur
 
R

Richard Henry

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim said:
So adding excess man-made water to the atmosphere has no effect on
weather?

Now THAT'S a greenie weenie conclusion.

I understznd that in Arizona, an unexpected rainstorm can be an
environmental disaster. However, in most ofthe world, the amount of
excess rain produced by all human endeavor to date just washes a little
more oil off the streets.
 
M

Michael Stemper

Jan 1, 1970
0
Al Gore came on Opera yesterday

When's he going to come on FireFox?
said we could save 20% of the
energy our light bulbs use if we switched to more expensive florescent
bulbs.

I thought that the energy consumption of flourescents was much lower
than for incadescents. A 20% savings sounds trivial.
These bulbs last longer you know.

"Last longer and use less energy" v. "cost more". This is what's
called a "trade-off".
But are you aware that the
light bulb companies are conspiring to keep florescent bulbs off the
market?

They're doing a damn poor job. Not only can I buy them at Home Depot,
Target, Menard's, and my local grocery store, but my parents and
grandparents were able to do so as well.
They charge you more for them already,

Okay, so they're not keeping them off the market then. Glad to have
you confirm that.
but Tesla invented a
florescent bulb that is still burning in the Tesla Museum 50 years
later.

It sounds as if they're worth more if they'll last longer. (It seems
to me that I've heard that there is a light bulb, made by Edison, that
has been continuously burning since he made it. I can't find a citation
for it, though.)
If we all used his bulbs we would never have to worry about
screwing in light bulbs.

There are now fluorescents that do screw in, for use in lamps.
Because we don't have to ever change our light
bulbs in an ideal world.

I most recently changed the light bulb in my back hallway (outside
the bedrooms) in 1990.
 
E

Elder

Jan 1, 1970
0
So if your supplier's generator goes down, do they send people around
to shut down their customers?
Well, if my electricity generator goes down, so does everyone.

Generation is done seperatly to supply. A "company" can't remember if
the government owns part or all. They sell it wholesale (so many
millions of units for so much) to the supply companies. Basicly the
supply companies have as much as they need, and the customers just suck
it down. The generating companies bill the supply companies for what
they use, the supply companies bill the end users for what they use.

Powerstations are owned by the generating "Company", they are scattered
all arround the UK, and they are all connected to a national network
with some storage overcapacity. Probably not as much as needed, but
some.

Gas is similar, but the gas provided by private companies into a
national pipeline network and sold on by supply companies and the pipe
network is owned and operating seperatly from the drilling and pumping
out of the ground, and the supplying and billing to the end users. Very
very complicated.
 
J

Jonathan Kirwan

Jan 1, 1970
0
I've gotten excellent service from most brands of CFL, which I've
relied on nearly exclusively for the past many (8-9?) years. Mine are
mostly ceiling-mounted, down-facing, without enclosures (thus avoiding
early death by self-heating).

Some brands, frequently cycled, failed very prematurely. Others have
lasted me years and years of daily use even in the bathroom, where the
light's constantly going on and off.

The livingroom light is turned on an off, occasionally. But not in
any exceptional way. Perhaps two or three cyclings a day.
For me, the bulbs are flat out cheaper to buy, even costing 5x,
because they outlast incandescents by a greater factor. On top of
that, using, for example, a 13W CFL in place of a 75W incandescent
saves roughly 62W x 5,000 hours = 310KWh of electricity over the life
of the bulb, which would've cost me 310KWh x 12.8 cents, or about $40.
CFLs are much cheaper to operate.

We have very different experiences, then. I actually _want_ them to
work well. I like the idea of saving direct energy costs (I have no
idea about the indirect manufacturing energy costs or disposal costs
or environment harm, etc.) I wish they proved out as well. But I'm
just about ready to stop buying them, entirely.
Locally, the CFLs are now subsidized by the power company[*], and are
available to the consumer for $1.

Not here, so far as I'm aware.
Other benefits are: time saved in replacing bulbs, fewer trips to the
store, etc.

Only if your experiences were mine. Sadly, they aren't.
I count saved time heavily--replacing bulbs isn't
painful, but it's not my mission in life. Oh yes--let's not forget
cute inverters/free electronic parts from the expended bulbs!

Like I said, if only ...
Drawbacks: slow ignition time in certain brands (I avoid those, but
have one in service), and concerns about the environmental impact of
using a disposable product that contains mercury.

Yes. But with my experience differing so much from yours, those
aren't the only drawbacks for me.
[*] Which of course really means they're subsidized *very
inefficiently* by the customers and taxpayers, after a huge load of
bureaucratic nonsense, making CFLs cost MORE, not less.

Perhaps so. I really don't know one way or another.

Jon
 
O

OG

Jan 1, 1970
0
Tim Wescott said:
Right. A florescent bulb costs $9.99, 40kWh costs diddly, and so does an
incandescent bulb.

diddly + diddly
--------------- << 1
$9.99

Hmmm,
I don't know about that.

20W Fluorescent
life 6000 hours (standard) cost $10 (I'll take your figure, but am aware
that it is probably higher than you need pay)
Cost of 1KwH maybe around 10c
lifetime electricity usage 120KwH = $12
total cost 22$

100W incandescent
for 6000 hours you'll get through 6 bulbs, maybe $3
electricity usage = 600KwH = $60
total cost $63.

Each fluorescent bulb saves over $40.

I'm not sure about the domestic cost of electricity where you are, I've seen
10/KwH and used that as a realistic round figure.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/brochure/electricity/electricity.html has
figures from 2003, which suggest prices varied between 6 and 12 c/KwH
(depending on state), but it looks like electricity is more expensive where
more people live. And that was 3 years ago.
Even at the lowest price point, a fluorescent bulb would save $17 over its
lifetime.
I'll stick with incandescents.

Your choice of course, but you've seen the maths.
 
M

Mark Fortune

Jan 1, 1970
0
Michael said:
When's he going to come on FireFox?




I thought that the energy consumption of flourescents was much lower
than for incadescents. A 20% savings sounds trivial.

I think its more 80%, the CFL's ive got in my flat use 20% of the
electricity (ie 20w as opposed to 100w) of a fillament bulb of similar
luminoscity.
"Last longer and use less energy" v. "cost more". This is what's
called a "trade-off".

Plus they only cost more up front, ive saved more in not buying
fillament bulbs (ei the number of blown bulbs I would have replaced by
now) than ive paid for in CFL bulbs over the past 5 years.

I'd say CFL's are better -value for money- (something a lot of people
seem to ignore in favour of "cheapest available" these days)

Thats before you take the cost of electricity into consideration.
I most recently changed the light bulb in my back hallway (outside
the bedrooms) in 1990.

I cant beat that, but I do still have flourescent bulbs burning in my
flat which have moved around with me from home to home over the past 5
years.
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
I understand that in Arizona, an unexpected rainstorm can be an
environmental disaster. However, in most ofthe world, the amount of
excess rain produced by all human endeavor to date just washes a little
more oil off the streets.

You either cluelessly, or more likely purposefully (since that's the
greenie weenie way), evaded my question...

"So adding excess man-made water to the atmosphere has no effect on
weather?"

...Jim Thompson
 
Top