Florescent light bulbs?

[[email protected]]

How about $5 or less for compact fluorescents?

Wow! I don't pay that.

Although in my experience it takes at least 25, usually at least 26
watts of compact fluorescent wattage to match a 1710 lumen "standard" 100
watt 120V incandescent.

The lumen specs may be equivalent but my aging eyes can't see as
well with the compacts. I still have a 60W to fill in the
spectra gap. (and I think I just spelled spectra wrong.)

/BAH

 

[[email protected]]

Yes, it is. Those 1970's style swivel things with a brass finish. I
use a very long rod to reach up that high, with a suction cup on the
end of the extention that is moistened to grip.

Now I'm confused. The directions on the bulbs I buy say to not
use them in recessed fixtures. I never understood why and I wish
instructions would say why.

At <20 watts, though?

Do an experiement. Those things get hot. I was surprised.

I think what Don was talking about is that the bulb cannot
stand its own heat.

I'll look more closely. This switch I'm using here is a dimmer type,
too. This could be another confounding issue, in my case.

The instructions on the packaging say to not use them on dimmers.
Perhaps that's the bug in your system that shortens the life.
Although I also have no idea why this is a restriction.

One of these days, I'll figure out what causes mine to zap
the radio with static. So far, I haven't been able to
reproduce it but havent' spent serious time on the problem.

<snip>

/BAH

 

[Eeyore]

Wow! I don't pay that.

Me neither. The equivalent of ~ $1 for the last few and they're proper Philips
brand too.

The lumen specs may be equivalent but my aging eyes can't see as
well with the compacts. I still have a 60W to fill in the
spectra gap. (and I think I just spelled spectra wrong.)

You can get them with a colour temperature of ~ 6000K ( bright white )

These are supposed to be more like daylight. I'm just about to buy one or two of
these - in higher wattage too ( 30W @ 45W ) to see what they're like.

Graham

 

[[email protected]]

Me neither. The equivalent of ~ $1 for the last few and they're proper Philips
brand too.



You can get them with a colour temperature of ~ 6000K ( bright white )

These are supposed to be more like daylight. I'm just about to buy one or two of
these - in higher wattage too ( 30W @ 45W ) to see what they're like.

Will you report back with your results? It would nice if your
tests included somebody with aged eyes.

/BAH

 

[Don Klipstein]

What's an Ott?
Besides $25 for a 13 watt bulb.

A higher price brand with what I consider marketing hype.

Several years ago one of the then-regulars in sci.engr.lighting
published a spectrometer plot of one of those. It appeared to me typical
of a high color temperature triphosphor.

Just a couple months ago I got an Ott 13 watt twintube/"PL-style" at
Home Depot for about $10. That was a version for growing plants, and
supposedly has its spectrum as best as possible resembling that of
sunlight which Ott claimed was good for plants. My diffraction grating
tells me that this is indeed a "full spectrum" one, probably with color
rendering index probably in the low 90's, and the color temp. is about
5000K. However, other brands of fluorescents for growing plants have
their spectra running low in the green since plants reflect green
light and don't make much use of it, but best utilize red and blue.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])

 

[erithromycin]

Uh, guys -

if saving energy is this important to you, could you maybe trim the
newsgroups a little? I mean, alt.gothic doesn't really need this much light.

Given how many extra messages are being bandied about as a result, if the
difference between bulbs is an issue for you I'd have thought the needless
propogation of this many posts would be a concern too.

 

[NightMist]

A higher price brand with what I consider marketing hype.

Several years ago one of the then-regulars in sci.engr.lighting
published a spectrometer plot of one of those. It appeared to me typical
of a high color temperature triphosphor.

Just a couple months ago I got an Ott 13 watt twintube/"PL-style" at
Home Depot for about $10. That was a version for growing plants, and
supposedly has its spectrum as best as possible resembling that of
sunlight which Ott claimed was good for plants. My diffraction grating
tells me that this is indeed a "full spectrum" one, probably with color
rendering index probably in the low 90's, and the color temp. is about
5000K. However, other brands of fluorescents for growing plants have
their spectra running low in the green since plants reflect green
light and don't make much use of it, but best utilize red and blue.

OK, I am taking notes here.

Including one to myself to remind me that Otts have spread out from
the art and sewing markets. I am so not buying one at the art supply
store again! though at the time it was the least expensive source I
could find. I will mention that mine at least seems destined to live
forever. The bulb is now about 5 years old and still works fine.

Oddly, though Otts are supposed to be in the range of noontime
sunlight, they look cold to me. They work for color matching, but I
am not comfortable around them. They make my mastoids shiver and my
teeth wiggle, wish I could be more precise...

My interest lies primarily in accurate color reproduction.
Most often I do not know what the lighting in the area in which a
painting will be displayed is, or if it will change. Thus
approximating natural light is wise when creating it.
Something other than an Ott that will not bankrupt me to try would be
good. So I have been following along in this thread and gleaning.

NightMist

 

[Michael Press]

And why not, since the cellphone/gas thing is an urban legend?

http://www.snopes.com/autos/hazards/gasvapor.asp

Yes and no. Cellular telephones do not cause
explosions. Sitting in your car then getting out will
build a static electric charge in you. Grabbing the
filling nozzle can discharge the electricity, generate
a spark at the filling port, and ignite gasoline fumes.
This scenario has been recorded on video surveillance
tapes at gas stations.

People do get into their car and talk on the cellular
telephone as the gasoline tank fills.

 

[Don Klipstein]

OK, I am taking notes here.

Including one to myself to remind me that Otts have spread out from
the art and sewing markets. I am so not buying one at the art supply
store again! though at the time it was the least expensive source I
could find. I will mention that mine at least seems destined to live
forever. The bulb is now about 5 years old and still works fine.

Oddly, though Otts are supposed to be in the range of noontime
sunlight, they look cold to me. They work for color matching, but I
am not comfortable around them. They make my mastoids shiver and my
teeth wiggle, wish I could be more precise...

I suspect your lamp may be a 5000 or 5500 K unit, and sunlight with sun
at zenith in clear air is supposedly something like 5300-5400 K. I have
seen eyeball estimate as high as about 5000 K in Philadelphia.

But at typical home illumination levels, 5000 K typically looks icy
cold. Regular cool white is 4100-4300 K, and that often looks dreary in
home use. Even high color rendering index lamps with color temperature
4100 K can look a little dreary to most people in home use.

My interest lies primarily in accurate color reproduction.
Most often I do not know what the lighting in the area in which a
painting will be displayed is, or if it will change. Thus
approximating natural light is wise when creating it.
Something other than an Ott that will not bankrupt me to try would be
good. So I have been following along in this thread and gleaning.

The following fluorescent lamps have color rendering index in the low
90's and color temperature 5000 K:

Philips "Natural Sunshine" (available at Home Depot, possibly is the
same thing as Colortone 50)
Philips "Colortone 50" - color rendering index is 92
"Chroma 50" (I forget who makes that - maybe GE?)

The following fluorescent lamp has color rendering index of 98 and color
temp. of 5000 K: Philips TL950 (F17T8 and F32T8 sizes only)

Keep in mind that light output of a fluorescent tends to be compromised
when the color rendering index gets past 86.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])

 

[[email protected]]

Yes and no. Cellular telephones do not cause
explosions. Sitting in your car then getting out will
build a static electric charge in you. Grabbing the
filling nozzle can discharge the electricity, generate
a spark at the filling port, and ignite gasoline fumes.
This scenario has been recorded on video surveillance
tapes at gas stations.

People do get into their car and talk on the cellular
telephone as the gasoline tank fills.

If you had bothered to read the URL first, you would have known that
there was extensive data there about the effects of static electricity
and fires.

 

[Rich Grise, Plainclothes Hippie]

I suppose they could but that's no fun. When you
have the real thing, why settle for a substitute?

That was my basis when I tried to figure out how
these phone matters could be arranged.

Arrange a date with her, where she goes to a classy restaurant
with the phone in her crotch. Make the call, and _then_ walk in
and join her, to watch. (Remember that Meg Ryan/Billy Crystal
thing? Well, this theoretically wouldn't be faked.) ;-)

Be sure she's charged her phone battery completely. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

Yes and no. Cellular telephones do not cause
explosions. Sitting in your car then getting out will
build a static electric charge in you. Grabbing the
filling nozzle can discharge the electricity, generate
a spark at the filling port, and ignite gasoline fumes.
This scenario has been recorded on video surveillance
tapes at gas stations.

I once drew about a 2" spark (arc?) from my hand to the parking
valet's hand as I handed over my keys. I had forgot to hold onto
the metal door frame while I got out of the car.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

I know gasoline usually cannot be ignited by a cigarette, but the
temperature of the burning tobacco is not always the same! Also, gasoline
formulations vary, and so may the temperature required to ignite the
vapor.

On the other hand, diesel's vapors do not reach a flammable
concentration in ordinary situations - toss a burning match into a bucket
of diesel and it will go out. (Then again, I prefer to not bet my life
or lack of a hospital visit that the forces of Murphy's Law won't find a
way to make something go wrong.)

Well, it won't explode, but it will burn, albeit with a really dirty,
greasy, sooty orange flame.

And isn't it almost the same as kerosene? That certainly burns in a
lantern.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Panurge]

Alright, that's at least twice that this one has come up now.
Gore never said that...:

To say nothing of the people who propounded that "Gore said he invented the
Internet" canard, anyway, no?

I mean, I heard of the Internet first in an article in *Time* covering a Senate
hearing conducted by *Al Gore*. In fact, it's gone so far that pulling out the
old "can't trust Gore" meme is cause for suspicion all in itself.

 

[Panurge]

RichD wrote:

Well, he *used* to be--if you can be known for being unknown, that is.

Tesla is a very well known genius.

Yeah, and his music rocks, too! ;-)

 

[Richard Henry]

No, why is it interesting? ...and what does it have to do with
AlGore's serial lies?

In cae you missed the drift, the discussion has turned to the recurring
mistruth "Al Gore claimed to have invented the Internet" and those who
repeat that mantra out of ignorance, political inertia, or, perhaps, a
feeling of "truthiness".

From wikipedia (truthiness):

....the quality by which a person claims to know something intuitively,
instinctively, or "from the gut" without regard to evidence, logic,
intellectual examination, or actual facts...

 

[krw]

In cae you missed the drift, the discussion has turned to the recurring
mistruth "Al Gore claimed to have invented the Internet" and those who
repeat that mantra out of ignorance, political inertia, or, perhaps, a
feeling of "truthiness".


...the quality by which a person claims to know something intuitively,
instinctively, or "from the gut" without regard to evidence, logic,
intellectual examination, or actual facts...

Or perhaps because it sums up AlGore so nicely.

 

[whisky-dave]

LOL ! The world works in funny ways.

My only real objection to CFLs is theway - at least over here - that their
equivalence to an incandescent buld is overstated.

I'm looking at replacing my kitchen ceiling lights but all the DIY stores
are pushing
the halogen bulbs. Most are 25-50w each bulb which tends to mean
100-200w for the average 'set' considering my present old tube is about 30w
that makes these halogens very inefficient, so unless they are pushing these
halogen
because they are expensive and 'blow' quite regularly compared to tubes
and incandescent bulbs, why are tehy pushing them.

 

[krw]

I'm looking at replacing my kitchen ceiling lights but all the DIY stores
are pushing
the halogen bulbs. Most are 25-50w each bulb which tends to mean
100-200w for the average 'set' considering my present old tube is about 30w
that makes these halogens very inefficient, so unless they are pushing these
halogen
because they are expensive and 'blow' quite regularly compared to tubes
and incandescent bulbs, why are tehy pushing them.

Halogens operate at a high temperature so emit a very crisp white
light which is very good in the kitchen. I prefer halogens to
fluorescents pretty much everywhere.

 

[Richard The Dreaded Libertarian]

To say nothing of the people who propounded that "Gore said he invented the
Internet" canard, anyway, no?

I mean, I heard of the Internet first in an article in *Time* covering a Senate
hearing conducted by *Al Gore*. In fact, it's gone so far that pulling out the
old "can't trust Gore" meme is cause for suspicion all in itself.

Well, he's obviously a fanatic. He's in the grip of some kind of witch's
brew of guilt, angst, and ego superiority.

Mother Earth is going to do whatever Mother Earth chooses to do, and
there's not a whole lot we can do about it - nor can we do anything
about the cyclic solar variations, orbital perturbations, and so on,
but Uncle Al seems to think that if he was dictator of the planet, he
coult save the world from the sins of humanity, or some such fanatical
claptrap.

The world will get along just fine, with us or without us - didn't
She survive the immolation of the dinosaurs? ;-)

Actually, if he really wants to save the world, he should tell all of
the politicians to commit mass suicide. ;-D

Thanks!
Rich