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FIRE ALARM QUESTIONS

  • Thread starter pinball plus inc.
  • Start date
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pinball plus inc.

Jan 1, 1970
0
hello all, i just purchased a 2600 sq ft. building which is half
workshop and half retail. I had a quote for the alarm system which has
to be ul listed equipment . I need 2 heat detectors in the workshop ,a
smoke detector up front and 2 horn strobes. The cost installed is
1800.00. Just wondered if this seems like a fair price. Thanks! John
Ross
 
R

Rocky_T_Squirrel, Esq.

Jan 1, 1970
0
it its unmonitored, it a little high..
if its monitored its about right..
RTS
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
pinball plus inc. said:
hello all, i just purchased a 2600 sq ft. building which is half
workshop and half retail. I had a quote for the alarm system which has
to be ul listed equipment . I need 2 heat detectors in the workshop ,a
smoke detector up front and 2 horn strobes. The cost installed is
1800.00. Just wondered if this seems like a fair price. Thanks! John
Ross

It depends on where you are, the occupancy class of the premise, what kind
of heat/smoke detectors are being used. Can you be a little more
discriptive?? What's the panel being proposed, type of heat detectors, etc.
Why horn/strobes?? Are we talking a very noisy environment?? We need more
details!!! :))


--
Frank Olson
http://www.yoursecuritysource.com
Free listings for qualified dealers and industry professionals
You can read the ASA FAQ at
http://www.yoursecuritysource.com/asafaq.htm
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Rocky_T_Squirrel said:
it its unmonitored, it a little high..
if its monitored its about right..
RTS


Without knowing the details of the application, or the equipment being
proposed, how can you judge what's "too high" and "about right"?? Sheesh!!!
 
R

Rocky_T_Squirrel, Esq.

Jan 1, 1970
0
Well Frank I just compared the equipment listed with the cost and labor
needed..
The panel for such a small system could be a 1 or 2 zone unit..
his only requirement was UL equipment.. which is nearly everthing out
there..
the only unknown that would effect the price in a mojor way was if it had to
be in conduit..
RTS
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Rocky_T_Squirrel said:
Well Frank I just compared the equipment listed with the cost and labor
needed..
The panel for such a small system could be a 1 or 2 zone unit..
his only requirement was UL equipment.. which is nearly everthing out
there..
the only unknown that would effect the price in a mojor way was if it had to
be in conduit..
RTS


Hmmm. Conduit. That could make the actual installation a bit of a bear.
At 2600 square feet something's not quite right either (with respect to the
device count). There could be dividing walls, closets, high ceilings,
perhaps even a mezzanine. A sprinkler system would put a different "spin"
on things. If the occupancy class requires explosion proof devices that
would also necessitate looking at the job in an entirely different light.
The OP could certainly provide us with some more details. It would help a
great deal in determining whether-or-not he's getting value for his dollar.


--
Frank Olson
http://www.yoursecuritysource.com
Free listings for qualified dealers and industry professionals
You can read the ASA FAQ at
http://www.yoursecuritysource.com/asafaq.htm
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert L. Bass said:

Ahhh... the "friendly greeting"... Let's all get "buddy-buddy", relax...

That's fairly typical pricing in many areas. Whether it is fair and
reasonable is subjective.

You must know the OP pretty well. It's only "subjective" in your eyes...

A small fire alarm like you describe would cost
the dealer about $475 (give or take a few dollars depending on the brand he
chooses).

What devices? What kind of heat detectors is the company quoting? What's
the code requirements for the installation?

Labor to install such a small system may be three to six hours,
depending on the level of difficulty of your building.

"Depending on the level of difficulty" could mean having to run conduit...
I think your arbitrary "six hour upper limit" is a bit "light" in those
circumstances... But I've forgotten. You *know* the poster.

For comparison I put
the necessary components for the system in a shopping cart on my website.

Uh-huh... That's the shill.

Retail cost, including 25% markup, would be about 1/3 what you were
quoted.

That's the "comparison".

It is not unusual for alarm companies to mark up hardware + labor 100-300%
over cost. Markups tend to be even higher if there isn't a multi-year
monitoring agreement associated with the sale.

And there's the "professional putdown"...

Bass is right. Buy the stuff from him and install it yourself. I'm sure
he'll tell you all about the necessary code requirements, pulling the
necessary permits and having the inspection/verification done... Heck...
I'm sure he can teach you how to bend pipe and install the cable in about an
hour on the phone and afterwards inspect the job "remotely" for you,
download the panel, and sign off on it as well. Do you have a web cam??
:))


--
Frank Olson
http://www.yoursecuritysource.com
Free listings for qualified dealers and industry professionals
You can read the ASA FAQ at
http://www.yoursecuritysource.com/asafaq.htm
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Nunya Bizness said:
$1800.00 includes a programmed commercial fire panel with dialer, 2 heats, a
smoke, 2 horn strobes, fire wire, labor, profit, and overhead? Count your
blessings.
Before you sign on the dotted line you should make certain that the local AHJ
approves the plan, and that local code doesn't require a different
configuration.

Sound advice!!

Who instructed you to only install TWO heats, and ONE smoke? Never go solely on
what your insurance agent recommends as they will only tell you what the policy
requires. Do a little homework on the local codes to prevent any future
headaches. Establish what your particular type of business is classified as in
the codes. I'm curious to know what code calls for a fire system with only 2
heats and one smoke in 2600sq ft?

That sorta "stood out" in the OP's post as well... I had alarm bells
ringing... The guy's posting through Google but the email addy looks
legit... :))


--
Frank Olson
http://www.yoursecuritysource.com
Free listings for qualified dealers and industry professionals
You can read the ASA FAQ at
http://www.yoursecuritysource.com/asafaq.htm
 
B

Bob Worthy

Jan 1, 1970
0
Frank Olson said:
Without knowing the details of the application, or the equipment being
proposed, how can you judge what's "too high" and "about right"??
Sheesh!!!

A telco run and RJ make a big difference, don't ya know.
 
B

Bob Worthy

Jan 1, 1970
0
Frank Olson said:
It depends on where you are, the occupancy class of the premise, what kind
of heat/smoke detectors are being used. Can you be a little more
discriptive?? What's the panel being proposed, type of heat detectors, etc.
Why horn/strobes?? Are we talking a very noisy environment?? We need more
details!!! :))

May have to have strobes in the bathrooms if they are open to the public. Is
this a required system of voluntary? Need at least a smoke or heat where the
panel is. Pull stations at the exits? What type of workshop is it? Any spray
booths? What about storage areas? Alot of unknowns here. Was this a sales
type person that looked at the job or was it actually speced out and plans
drawn by their fire installation department? Has it been sent to fire plan
approval through your local jurisdiction? One thing that happens is that
there will be a little line in the proposal that says "subject to the AHJ's
approval". All of a sudden the plans come back with alot more equipment
being required by the fire marshall. You have already excepted the proposed
price and agreed that you may have to add more. Get a price on an approved
set of plans. The cost of this will be in the final proposed price, but it
will get you alot closer to reality.

Bob4Secur
 
B

Bob Worthy

Jan 1, 1970
0
The equipment doesn't hardly cover the spacing requirements, does it, no
matter how you shape the building. Especially when one of the devices needs
to be at the panel. What type of ceiling is in the workshop? I take it there
is a patition between the retail space and the workshop area. Someone is
blowing smoke already.

Bob4Secur
 
B

Bob Worthy

Jan 1, 1970
0
Alarminex said:
The system you described, that you propose to install, at first perusal,
doesn't seem adequate or contain enough equipment, for the size of the
building, to meet requirements
Agreed

......... at least in my area.

That goes for most all civilized areas in the country, Jim. That is why
there are standards for fire in the **NATIONAL** Fire Protection Association
and the **LIFE SAFETY** Code. We have all seen the "Free" security system
but will never see the "Free" fire alarm system. One's life isn't very safe
with cheap and the fire marshalls will not let inadequate systems exist if
the systems are required.

Bob4Secur
 
B

Bob Worthy

Jan 1, 1970
0
Nunya Bizness said:
reality is
something he doesn't want to deal with.

I see that with alot of posts that come here. They don't get what they want
to hear and just go away. Lets give him the benefit of the doubt and just
maybe he is blistering someones behind. He may have been talking to a burg
guy that just doesn't know commercial fire and see's no problem with
connecting a couple of smokes and a heat to a rezy panel. He does it all the
time.

Bob4Secur
 
B

Bossman

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert L. Bass said:
It is not unusual for alarm companies to mark up hardware + labor 100-300%
over cost. Markups tend to be even higher if there isn't a multi-year
monitoring agreement associated with the sale.

I wish I lived in a place where we could mark up material and labor
100%-300% over cost. I have been bidding on small to medium fire
systems in the Dallas area with a 25% markup. I don't mark-up the cost
of plans and permits, just the equipment and labor. Our labor rate is
$45 per hour, which is exactly what I pay the tech. We are either
right on the money or a little high on most jobs. The typical markup
here is 20%-30%, as far as I can tell.

And...we don't require a long-term contract for the monitoring,
inspections or service.

Bossman
 
M

mikey

Jan 1, 1970
0
No wonder you're not in business any more. What a dope. You don't think your
workmanship or service is as good as the next fellow's? A little less??
You come in at less than half the norm. I'm surprised you got any work at
all.
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert L. Bass said:
Uh-huh, if you say so. I probably sell more securrity systems in a week
than you do in a year.


You do things your way. I do things my way. Ask any of the reps at ADI
Clearwater who places the most sales orders every day of the week.

What exactly do you buy at "ADI Clearwater"??? Paradox? Elk? CADDX?
Napco? Visonic PowerMax? You don't sell Ademco. In fact you rarely (if
ever) answer questions about it? So that leaves... sirens... and contacts
(since you don't like Ademco contacts, you must be selling Tane)... Heh,
heh, heh...

Wonders never cease, eh? :^)

Speaking of "wonders", how's the heart??
 
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