Maker Pro
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Ferric Chloride?

H

Hammy

Jan 1, 1970
0
Does anybody know of a reliable place in Canada that sells and ships
ferric chloride? Mouser wont even ship ferric chloride to Canada.

There use to be a place in town to get it but the business is'nt
stocking it anymore.

Any help appreciated .

Thank you.
 
Does anybody know of a reliable place in Canada that sells and ships
ferric chloride? Mouser wont even ship ferric chloride to Canada.

Radio Shack/The Source still sells some.
There use to be a place in town to get it but the business is'nt
stocking it anymore.

There are better ways to get PCBs these days. You'll find they don't
stock vacuum tubes either.
 
D

D from BC

Jan 1, 1970
0
Does anybody know of a reliable place in Canada that sells and ships
ferric chloride? Mouser wont even ship ferric chloride to Canada.

There use to be a place in town to get it but the business is'nt
stocking it anymore.

Any help appreciated .

Thank you.

Alternatively..
Check out..
Air Regenerated Acid Cupric Chloride Etching
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~eseychell/PCB/etching_CuCl/index.html

For Ferric Chloride:
Try looking for a local MG chemicals distributor
http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/415.html

I know one in BC:
http://www.smi-elec.com/


D from BC
British Columbia
Canada.
 
H

Hammy

Jan 1, 1970
0
Radio Shack/The Source still sells some.

We have two "The Source" and neither stock it.The franchise managers
say they are getting out of the electronic components etc. once there
inventory is depleted.

There are better ways to get PCBs these days.

Well yes the CNC mill I used in school would be ideal,but a little
pricey for me.

A board fab house wouldnt be cost effective for my quantities.They
also take to long. I usually find out some modifications are
nescessary after my first board is constructed and tested,another
reason why a FAB house isnt worth it.
You'll find they don't stock vacuum tubes either.

Really the ones here have some pretty antiquated components.
 
We have two "The Source" and neither stock it.The franchise managers
say they are getting out of the electronic components etc. once there
inventory is depleted.

What city are you in?
Well yes the CNC mill I used in school would be ideal,but a little
pricey for me.

Gaaaah, no way.
A board fab house wouldnt be cost effective for my quantities.They

Olimex charges like 30$ for a single double sided board.
also take to long. I usually find out some modifications are
nescessary after my first board is constructed and tested,another
reason why a FAB house isnt worth it.

Hey, if you think that way no one would ever fab a board. I'm a
"pro" (that's what it says on my paycheck, but I'm really a goofball)
I work with pros. There's still the occasional mod wire that pops up.
What are you gonna do about it? That's life.
Really the ones here have some pretty antiquated components.

Radio Shack used to source all kinds of weird stuff, I used to buy
reel to reel tape from them.
Tubes too.
 
R

Robert Baer

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hammy said:
Does anybody know of a reliable place in Canada that sells and ships
ferric chloride? Mouser wont even ship ferric chloride to Canada.

There use to be a place in town to get it but the business is'nt
stocking it anymore.

Any help appreciated .

Thank you.
Jameco.
 
R

Robert Baer

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hammy said:
We have two "The Source" and neither stock it.The franchise managers
say they are getting out of the electronic components etc. once there
inventory is depleted.





Well yes the CNC mill I used in school would be ideal,but a little
pricey for me.

A board fab house wouldnt be cost effective for my quantities.They
also take to long. I usually find out some modifications are
nescessary after my first board is constructed and tested,another
reason why a FAB house isnt worth it.




Really the ones here have some pretty antiquated components.
ExpressPCB is not too bad especially if you do not mind the board
size being their "loss-leader" and getting three at a whack. They also
ahve free schematic and layout software that you use for making and
ordering boards.
Sierra Proto Express in Sunnyvale does not have a minimum that i know
of, and they have an excellent turn-around time at a good price; (408)
523-9922 Amit Bahl.
 
H

Hammy

Jan 1, 1970
0
Gaaaah, no way.

What's wrong with a CNC mill?
My experience with people who dislike them is they don't take the time
to learn to operate it correctly. They have there limitations
capability wise, but then so does a fad house. I know a CNC mill no
matter what you spend couldn't compete isolation wise, layers and
trace width with any chemical process but you can't beat them for
creating proto boards quickly with no mess.
They're also pretty cool to watch.:)

Olimex charges like 30$ for a single double sided board.

Just did a 10W flyback (2.4"x3") cost for etchant used, paper, toner
PCB Approx.2 bucks, time not including layout about an hour. I guess
I'm already 28 bucks and three plus days ahead.

Hey, if you think that way no one would ever fab a board. I'm a
"pro" (that's what it says on my paycheck, but I'm really a goofball)
I work with pros. There's still the occasional mod wire that pops up.
What are you gonna do about it? That's life.

I don't understand why people seem to think it's always necessary to
use a PCB house. I've been on several interviews were the company does
all there own boards. They have there own etchant rooms, pick and
place and reflow soldering all in house. I'm not knocking PCB houses
if you regularly do multi layer boards or several thousand units per
run yes a PCB house is the place to go. The cost of the equipment is
coming down making it more attractive to do it all in house, hell one
company even made its own enclosures plastic injection moulding. My
opinion is the more you can do yourself the better, judging by the
amount of companies I've seen who do everything in house I'm not alone
in that regard.
 
R

Robert Adsett

Jan 1, 1970
0
What's wrong with a CNC mill?

Noisy, slow, dusty, expensive and did I mention noisy.

I'd rather spend my time doing something other than babysitting an
infernal noisemaker. It's not like I don't have other things to do.

Robert
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Noisy, slow, dusty, expensive and did I mention noisy.

I'd rather spend my time doing something other than babysitting an
infernal noisemaker. It's not like I don't have other things to do.

Robert

I saw one of those, IIRC, at Silicon Systems, when they were in Grass
Valley.

They housed theirs in an old teletype noise box ;-)

...Jim Thompson
 
H

Hammy

Jan 1, 1970
0
Noisy, slow, dusty, expensive and did I mention noisy.

I'd rather spend my time doing something other than babysitting an
infernal noisemaker. It's not like I don't have other things to do.

Robert

The main noise comes from the vacuum attachment, but it sounds like
you weren't using one. But it's not what I would consider deafening,
maybe try a new one. You don't have to sit there and babysit it "set
it and forget it". Maybe whoever told you to do that wanted to get you
out of their hair. They are slower though.

Like all things it depends on what you're willing to spend.

To each his own.
 
R

Robert Adsett

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim Thompson said:
I saw one of those, IIRC, at Silicon Systems, when they were in Grass
Valley.

They housed theirs in an old teletype noise box ;-)

That sounds like it would help. We used the parking lot on a good day.

Given the limitations in the results and the cost of prototype boards
they strike me as a solution whose time has passed. There is a certain
fascination in watching the circuit appear in bits out of the process
though.

Robert
 
R

Robert Adsett

Jan 1, 1970
0
The main noise comes from the vacuum attachment, but it sounds like
you weren't using one. But it's not what I would consider deafening,

I would, we did set it outside in clement weather and that helped at the
cost of annoying the neighbours. Mad for a noisy lab even then.
maybe try a new one. You don't have to sit there and babysit it "set
it and forget it".

Yes and no. It did have to be checked periodically and mill bits
replaced if they broke and make sure that the CU was still being milled,
Dukk bits ride up in the CU rather than removing it. Losing four hours
because the mill failed near the beginning is less than attractive.
Maybe whoever told you to do that wanted to get you
out of their hair.

That seems unlikely, I was in charge ;) Mostly others had need of it at
the time so they had to keep an eye on it.
They are slower though.

And that's before the cleanup other post milling work you need to do.
Like all things it depends on what you're willing to spend.

And in what currency. They strike me as a tool for universities. "Grad
students are free".

Robert
 
T

Tom Del Rosso

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert Adsett said:
That sounds like it would help. We used the parking lot on a good
day.

Given the limitations in the results and the cost of prototype boards
they strike me as a solution whose time has passed. There is a
certain fascination in watching the circuit appear in bits out of the
process though.

Are you talking about a CNC to mill the traces or just drill the vias?
 
R

Robert Adsett

Jan 1, 1970
0
Are you talking about a CNC to mill the traces or just drill the vias?

Milling the traces. Via's get drilled as well of course.

Robert
 
J

Joel Koltner

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert Adsett said:
And in what currency. They strike me as a tool for universities. "Grad
students are free".

[cough] We had one when I was in grad school... it was used for the microwave
labs where we built such uninspiring things as coupled stripline filters and
Wilkinson power dividers. I occasionally advocated trying out something a
little more intersting like a microwave oscillator or at least amplifier (or
maybe a dual-mode filter if you want to stick with passive designs... or at
least a wideband Wilkinson!?), but due to a lack of tools and practical RF
design/construction experience it never really happened.

My last year in grad school the motor burned out on the thing; I don't know if
they bothered to replace it. All the undergraduates doing various digital
logic boards were already using Advanced Circuits or -- if they had even more
time and fewer spare dollars -- the dirt-cheap overseas companies.

Interesting story: The one time that anyone in the department could recall a
student entering the "student" power amplifier design contest at IMS
(International Microwave Syposium -- the "big show" for those doing microwave
anything), said student was actually already working as a full time engineer
at a well-known company that designs amplifier MMICs and other RF ICs and had
access to a very nice set of equipment for prototyping and testing.

He still didn't come in particularly high on the list. :)

I thought about doing the same thing myself (in our department, I was one of a
long list of grad. students who went off and found a Real Job after finishing
their coursework but prior to getting around to finishing their thesis...),
but I never found/made the time. I did get as far as talking to Steve Cripps
(judge and of course well-known uwave PA designer... not to mention nice
guy...) and he mentioned that -- at the time -- all of the winning designs
were still significantly less power efficient than off-the-shelf commercial
offerings. Makes you wonder about the state of higher education a bit!

---Joel
 
J

Joel Koltner

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert Adsett said:
Given the limitations in the results and the cost of prototype boards
they strike me as a solution whose time has passed.

For RF designs we still use ours when we need relatively simple boards in a
hurry. It's not ideal -- our machine/plating process only supports 2 layers,
so if you want a ground plane you're stuck using jumper wires. I also have a
suspicion that it isn't even necessarily that cost effective relative to, say,
John Larkin or Wes Hayward's "ugly construction" techniques, but we still find
it useful on occasion.

For digital designs I don't think there's much point anymore, at least if you
can afford to wait about a week: Even Advanced Circuits will get you 3 2-layer
boards for $99 in a week, and you get 15 mil holes, 6 mil traces, excellent
soldermask and silkscreening -- far better than what cut boards can offer.

If you can afford the sometimes-luxury of time...
 
H

Hammy

Jan 1, 1970
0
Does anybody know of a reliable place in Canada that sells and ships
ferric chloride? Mouser wont even ship ferric chloride to Canada.

There use to be a place in town to get it but the business is'nt
stocking it anymore.

Any help appreciated .

Thank you.

Thanks for sharing your advice and experiences everyone.

D from BC

I found a place ACTIVE TECH from your link, should be here in three
days with some other stuff.

Thank you
 
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