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Eprom available?

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting and Repair' started by partyanimallighting, Nov 22, 2017.

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  1. partyanimallighting

    partyanimallighting

    322
    4
    Oct 22, 2012
    Hi wizards, I'm troubleshooting some old discontinued Elation moving heads and I've narrowed down the problem to the eproms on one of the main pcb's, an ATMEL8515. I'm finding these eproms on Digi-Key but, from past conversations in this forum, I was made to understand that these eproms are preprogrammed to suit the unit it's fitted into. Can these be purchased from any relevant companies programmed for the units that I want to repair?

    Renato

    Power Spot 250 Main CPU Type 001b.jpg Power Spot 250 Main CPU Type 002c.jpg Power Spot 250 Main CPU Type 002d.jpg
     
  2. Harald Kapp

    Harald Kapp Moderator Moderator

    11,141
    2,541
    Nov 17, 2011
    The ATMEGA8515L is not an EPROM but a complete microcontroller with integrated FLASH Memory (for this purpose comparable to EPROM).
    You will not be able to buy this chip pre-programmed with the required code unless the original manufacturer of the device sells it as a spare part - which I doubt it will.

    If the microcontroller is not locked, you can read the memory contents and program it to a new controller - provided the internal memory of the ATMEGA is not corrupt.
    If the microcontroller is locked, there's no chance of recovering the data from the internla memory.

    What makes you think this particular controller is defect?
    Does the unit use the DIP chip or the SMD chip on the SMD-2-DIP module you show? If you use the module, there is a chance that the CPU is fully o.k., but the oscillator (the metal chip next to C1, C2) is defect. Do you have an oscilloscope to check for correct operation of this oscillator?
     
  3. partyanimallighting

    partyanimallighting

    322
    4
    Oct 22, 2012
    The 8515 is seated in a 40 pin IC socket so I simply swapped out the problematic main PCB in one of the units with a known working and tested PCB. With this functional PCB installed, the unit started up fine and functioned without any issues. From there I simply swapped out the suspect MCU's one by one and started up the unit to test each MCU, simple enough. So far I have 4 defective MCU's consisting of 3 bad DIP MCU's and 1 bad SMD to DIP MCU and 1 fully functional MCU installed on the PCB on the fully functional unit, and 1 other fully functional unit. These units were discontinued a while back so the MCU's are definitely not available from the manufacturer.but a tech in the company did tell me a few years ago that the company outsourced these from an EEPROM supplier. I'm not versed enough as yet in electronics to even know how to figure out if the MCU is locked or not but I do have the 2 fully functional MCU's otherwise so maybe I can use these to figure out a solution?? I would really love to know how I can actually read the memory contents from a good working MCU and program this information to a new MCU. I Googled it a bit and it seems to involve data transfer similar to computer programming. Oh, and I haven't gotten a scope as yet but i was advised to get one in the future.
     
  4. Harald Kapp

    Harald Kapp Moderator Moderator

    11,141
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    Nov 17, 2011
    For reading data from the MCU and programming a new one you will need a PC, a programming adapter and the necessary software. Only then will you be able to find out whether the controller is locked. If yes, you will simply not be able to read out the code :(.
    For the programmer you'll find multiple sources on the internet. Watch out for a programmer with the mathcing DIP socket!
    The programming software is free from ATMEL (now Microchip).
    Or maybe you can find someone near you who has the necessary equipment and can help - before you invest in hardware only to find out that the mCU is locked.

    You will not be able to simply replace one of the modules (SMD-2-DIP) by a DIP MCU as the module contains a clock oscillator which is not present on the DIP MCU. Therefore the DIP MCU will not work in a circuit that expects a module.And probably vice versa.
    You need to replace a module by a module and a DIP chip by a DIP chip.
     
  5. partyanimallighting

    partyanimallighting

    322
    4
    Oct 22, 2012
    My interest is peaked!! I did some searching and found this listed for a few bucks on eBay. 40 pin socket connecting to my laptop via USB and the 8515 is listed among the programmable chips on the web page. So I'm guessing I can plug a couple of bucks into this, download the free programming software from MicroChip (ATMEL), put the chip into the programmer, start the software and it'll tell me whether the MCU is locked or not. Now, if the MCU is not locked, I simply use the software to read the existing code in one of the old functional 8515's, copy or re-write this exact code and send the code to the programmer to be sent to a fresh new 8515 MCU. Is this the plan? And if the MCU is locked? I'm out a few bucks?

    s-l1600.jpg
     
  6. Harald Kapp

    Harald Kapp Moderator Moderator

    11,141
    2,541
    Nov 17, 2011
    You still have the programmer to create projects of your own. ;)

    Heed my remark on the difference between the bare chip and the module with regard to the oscillator. though.
     
  7. kellys_eye

    kellys_eye

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    Jun 25, 2010
    'Piqued' even.....

    Far from it - you'll have a decent device reader/programmer that may come in very useful at a later date.

    I would have thought that of it was locked you wouldn't even be able to get the details of THAT fact....
     
  8. partyanimallighting

    partyanimallighting

    322
    4
    Oct 22, 2012
    "Piqued!" That's the word! So this little doo-dad will be able to program new MCU's so it's worth a shot. Nothing to lose. I also found another which claims to be able to "unlock" locked MCU's. Is this possible? The info on this "fuse repair" programmer states that it is designed to program all "fuses", regardless of their current state, restoring them to factory state. It also refers to them as AVR's. What does that stand for? Regarding the "fuses", is this definition used because these MCU's offer some form of protection, possibly to other components within the unit? The previous programmer I found above is 40 pin but, if I actually get this to work and come across this issue again with different pin layouts, will I have to buy another programmer to suit the pin type?

    s-l1600 II.jpg
     
  9. Harald Kapp

    Harald Kapp Moderator Moderator

    11,141
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    Nov 17, 2011
    I have my doubts, altough you never know what backdoor they might be using. The're not the only ones claiming that feature.
    Officially AVR stands for nothing at all, inofficially it's the initials of the developers of the architecture.
    The programmer in your post #5 will require another socket. The programming electronics can likely be reused. It may be hard, however, to find another socket adapter later on.
    The programmer from your latest post is more versatile from the start as it already includes different sockets.
     
  10. kellys_eye

    kellys_eye

    4,275
    1,147
    Jun 25, 2010
    Some programmers come with 40-pin ZIF sockets that allow for 'any' type of chip to be inserted (up to the 40-pins that is...) which I find to be far more user friendly than the multi-socketed device that's shown.
     
  11. Harald Kapp

    Harald Kapp Moderator Moderator

    11,141
    2,541
    Nov 17, 2011
    The one in post #5 is suitable for wide body ICs only. An adapter of a kind will be required for smaller case sizes.
     
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