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Epoxy

  • Thread starter Esther & Fester Bestertester
  • Start date
E

Esther & Fester Bestertester

Jan 1, 1970
0
See no n.g. for adhesives & epoxies, so if there's a better forum for this,
just point me to it.

I need an epoxy that is strong to the point of brittle. I want no flex; it
has to transmit vibration as close to 100% as possible.

Am I looking for a high Shore Hardness value? That's what Devcon uses in its
data sheets to specify hardness.

Is this something that I can achieve by changing the mix of the 2 parts? If
so, what do I lose if I use more hardener?

Any personal experiences with epoxies that you found to be harder than
others?

Thanks.
FBt
 
See no n.g. for adhesives & epoxies, so if there's a better forum for this,
just point me to it.

I need an epoxy that is strong to the point of brittle. I want no flex; it
has to transmit vibration as close to 100% as possible.

Am I looking for a high Shore Hardness value? That's what Devcon uses in its
data sheets to specify hardness.

Is this something that I can achieve by changing the mix of the 2 parts? If
so, what do I lose if I use more hardener?

Any personal experiences with epoxies that you found to be harder than
others?

Thanks.
FBt

For spacecraft vibration testing we use Dental cement. It's extremely
non-compliant so it is good for transmitting vibration from a
structure to an accelerometer. It is brittle so we remove them by
just taping them with a hammer and breaking them off the surface. We
first put a layer of thin tape on the surface to protect the surface.
the tape does not affect the vibration response.
bob
 
M

Martin Griffith

Jan 1, 1970
0
See no n.g. for adhesives & epoxies, so if there's a better forum for this,
just point me to it.

I need an epoxy that is strong to the point of brittle. I want no flex; it
has to transmit vibration as close to 100% as possible.

Am I looking for a high Shore Hardness value? That's what Devcon uses in its
data sheets to specify hardness.

Is this something that I can achieve by changing the mix of the 2 parts? If
so, what do I lose if I use more hardener?

Any personal experiences with epoxies that you found to be harder than
others?

Thanks.
FBt
try searching for
sci.engr.chem
or sci.engr.*




martin
 
D

Dave Platt

Jan 1, 1970
0
I need an epoxy that is strong to the point of brittle. I want no flex; it
has to transmit vibration as close to 100% as possible.

Sounds to me as if you're actually looking for stiffness, not
necessarily strength?

I think you'd want to look for (or make) a filled epoxy. A
high-strength epoxy which is loaded up with (e.g.) chopped or milled
fiberglass would be very stiff.
 
D

Didi

Jan 1, 1970
0
Any personal experiences with epoxies that you found to be harder than

I cannot suggest a harder epoxy but you pressed a sensitive button on
me
so here I go.

Many years ago (1991, to be precise) I opted to epoxy-fill my first
5kV
coils I did for my then employer in Cologne, Germany. I used no
multiplier,
straight flyback @ 5kV; about 1000 windings on an RM8 core, winding
and insulation layers being an art of their own. I located some very
liquid
epoxy meant for that purpose, then the whole module went filled, using
vacuum to make sure there were no cavities. Everything worked fine,
the filling
was perfect - I got asked how come the space between the *windinds*
was
not filled (0.05 wire, mylar foil between each layer) by my then
employer...
Some years later I had founded TGI in Bulgaria and did the first HV
source
making the coil more or less the same. However, I used off-the-shelf
epoxy;
it did not get as hard (although it was by far not as liquid before
hardening),
and after some warmup it began to conduct just enough to make the
thing
noisy... I wasted more than one coil (wound with a lot of work) until
I
got what was going on, I spent days if not weeks on that nightmare...
Eventually I learned I needed no filling at all, just a few drops of
melted
silicon at the right spots did the job (still does) quite well.

And on another occasion I had a guy from a detector repairshop in
Sofia
use the same effect trying to cheat on me... The HPGe gamma detectors
are very sensitive things, the front FET is cooled to -90C or so for
lowest
noise. The bias is a few kV (3.5 in that case), and the HV input is
filtered
through a 1Gohm/0.47uF group. Well, he had had the detector in his
hands
to "check it" for me and had put a stripe of such epoxid along the
resistor
between its pins... (The resistor is a rectangle, say 20x5mm, 1mm
thick).
After some warmup - the preamp consumes not so little, they have not
changed its design for >20 years - the detector begins to behave like
when it needs repair. Well he did not get it for repair because I
looked
and discovered what he had done and cleaned the mess up -and the
detector
worked fine. A few years later he got the same detector in his hands
directly from customers and did the same, this time he had added a
stripe
across the capacitor, though, and had scratched the paint of the
resistor between the pins. Mind you, I had told him I knew what he had
done the first time and he had done it again. I guess the epoxy must
have
had braindamaging effect as well.... (and I had refused to believe
other
people telling me he was sabotaging detectors before I got burned, the
epoxy must have worked on my brain as well - perhaps while dealing
with my coils... :).

Dimiter
 
T

TT_Man

Jan 1, 1970
0
Esther & Fester Bestertester said:
See no n.g. for adhesives & epoxies, so if there's a better forum for
this,
just point me to it.

I need an epoxy that is strong to the point of brittle. I want no flex; it
has to transmit vibration as close to 100% as possible.

Am I looking for a high Shore Hardness value? That's what Devcon uses in
its
data sheets to specify hardness.

Is this something that I can achieve by changing the mix of the 2 parts?
If
so, what do I lose if I use more hardener?

Any personal experiences with epoxies that you found to be harder than
others?

Thanks.
FBt
If you can afford it, Araldite 2014. 4-6 hrs grab, 24hr set.It's a grey
paste two part.-
 
T

The Last Mimsy

Jan 1, 1970
0
See no n.g. for adhesives & epoxies, so if there's a better forum for this,
just point me to it.

I need an epoxy that is strong to the point of brittle. I want no flex; it
has to transmit vibration as close to 100% as possible.

Am I looking for a high Shore Hardness value? That's what Devcon uses in its
data sheets to specify hardness.

Is this something that I can achieve by changing the mix of the 2 parts? If
so, what do I lose if I use more hardener?

Any personal experiences with epoxies that you found to be harder than
others?

Thanks.
FBt


With the way you worded this, it would seem that a technical response
would go right over your head.

Epoxy mix ratios are NEVER meant to be altered. You need to find an
epoxy that matches your needs. The only time I ever saw mix ratio ranges
to alter behavior, it was with an epoxy branded as "stycast". Which,
would oddly meat your needs.

It will not likely be cheap, however.
 
A

Al

Jan 1, 1970
0
See no n.g. for adhesives & epoxies, so if there's a better forum for
this, just point me to it.

I need an epoxy that is strong to the point of brittle. I want no flex;
it has to transmit vibration as close to 100% as possible.

Am I looking for a high Shore Hardness value? That's what Devcon uses in
its data sheets to specify hardness.

Is this something that I can achieve by changing the mix of the 2 parts?
If so, what do I lose if I use more hardener?

Any personal experiences with epoxies that you found to be harder than
others?

Thanks.
FBt

sci.materials is good.

Al
 
E

Esther & Fester Bestertester

Jan 1, 1970
0
If you have been letting it cure at room temperature, try about 15 minutes
at 160 F or so. It will get a lot harder.

Tam

Does it matter when the heat is applied? Right away? Or after it seems to
have cured as much as it is going to at room temp?
 
E

Esther & Fester Bestertester

Jan 1, 1970
0
To those who offer help even to the misguided, thank you for the benefit of
your knowledge.

To those who offer directions to the appropriate forum, thanks for the
(index) finger. :)

FBtf
 
G

Gerald Newton

Jan 1, 1970
0
See no n.g. for adhesives & epoxies, so if there's a better forum for this,
just point me to it.

I need an epoxy that is strong to the point of brittle. I want no flex; it
has to transmit vibration as close to 100% as possible.

Am I looking for a high Shore Hardness value? That's what Devcon uses in its
data sheets to specify hardness.

Is this something that I can achieve by changing the mix of the 2 parts? If
so, what do I lose if I use more hardener?

Any personal experiences with epoxies that you found to be harder than
others?

Thanks.
FBt

Rubinno cement made by Singer Kearfott in the 70's was used on
guidance systems for the Sram missile, PC3, and A7 navey fighter
jets. It is the best there is.
 
E

Esther & Fester Bestertester

Jan 1, 1970
0
Rubinno cement

Google turns up zero hits. Is the correct spelling? Any web references you
can give?

Thanks,
FBt
 
C

ChairmanOfTheBored

Jan 1, 1970
0
Google turns up zero hits. Is the correct spelling? Any web references you
can give?

Thanks,
FBt


It is probably $50 a quart. Minimum.
 
E

Esther & Fester Bestertester

Jan 1, 1970
0
It is probably $50 a quart. Minimum.

But that doesn't help me know *where*.

FBt
 
J

JeffM

Jan 1, 1970
0
Paul said:
The strength of the adhesive only becomes important if
the amplitude of the vibration approaches the strength limit of the bond.

This appears to be the sort of problems
that people designing sonar transducers have to deal with.

I saw something on Blue Whales the other day
that mentioned they are the loudest creature.
I looked it up and the figure is 188dB (like being next to a rocket)
....and there is great controversy about SONAR use
because it is thought (due to weird behavior
like healthy-appearing specimens beaching themselves)
that it is so loud that it damages the hearing of whales.
 
C

ChairmanOfTheBored

Jan 1, 1970
0
The selection of a suitable adhesive depends on how much energy one can
afford to lose in a sub-optimally coupled system. In your case, the
signal level of vibrating mechanical equipment is probably high enough
that some attenuation is tolerable.

The other thing to consider is the mass of the sensor, the flexibility
of the adhesive and the resulting natural frequency of the sensor
assembly. A massive sensor and/or flexible coupling will result in a
lower frequency and result in attenuation of signals above that point.


Metal filled epoxies pass thermal as well as vibration quite well.

http://www.epotek.com/SSCDocs/datasheets/H20E.PDF
 
E

Esther & Fester Bestertester

Jan 1, 1970
0
The other thing to consider is the mass of the sensor, the flexibility
of the adhesive and the resulting natural frequency of the sensor
assembly. A massive sensor and/or flexible coupling will result in a
lower frequency and result in attenuation of signals above that point.

The "flexible coupling" provided by the epoxies I've tried is causing issues.


It's been suggested that I try silver-filled epoxy and potting compound.
Dental cement was also a suggestion. I'm looking at all of these.

FBt
 
M

MakeNoAttemptToAdjustYourSet

Jan 1, 1970
0
The "flexible coupling" provided by the epoxies I've tried is causing issues.


It's been suggested that I try silver-filled epoxy and potting compound.
Dental cement was also a suggestion. I'm looking at all of these.

FBt


The silver filled is used to attach IC chip dies to their heat sinks
inside the chip package.

It is quite firm... brittle even, and is also conductive.

Requires 4 hr 80 C cure, however.

There are cooler, longer schedules.
 
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