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EOL Resistors

R

rory

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi, we have started using EOLs on the device side in this country now,
or we will be. Its been the norm just to put them on the panel side,
but our theives are now becoming a 'little' smarter.

When using say a T-100 contact, roll-up door contact, or a motion
detector, how do you normally install the EOL? Especially on a
contact, how would you 'hide' it? Is there a special way or any tips
out there?

Thanks

Rory
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
rory said:
Hi, we have started using EOLs on the device side in this country now,
or we will be. Its been the norm just to put them on the panel side,
but our theives are now becoming a 'little' smarter.

When using say a T-100 contact, roll-up door contact, or a motion
detector, how do you normally install the EOL? Especially on a
contact, how would you 'hide' it? Is there a special way or any tips
out there?


Think about using contacts with built-in EOL's. GRI provides a huge
selection with all the "popular" EOL values (as well as SENTROL). If the
motion you're using only has NC contacts, put the EOL on the common terminal
and connect the wire from the common zone terminal of the panel to the free
end of the EOL (I'd recommend soldering the wire to the EOL). If the
"thieves" are "becoming smarter" it may also be time to consider using
motions and glass breaks with separate tamper contacts.


--
Frank Olson
http://www.yoursecuritysource.com
Free listings for qualified dealers and industry professionals
You can read the ASA FAQ at
http://www.yoursecuritysource.com/asafaq.htm
 
A

A.J.

Jan 1, 1970
0
Best to use DEOL, a single EOL is just as easy to short out at the device as
a NC circuit.

Using DEOL at a motion with only NC output, connect a resistor across the
loop terminals, then on the same terminals, one goes to one side of the loop
circuit and the other goes to another resistor, then solder to the other
side of the loop circuit. Never twist the wire and the resistor under the
same terminal so any attempt to remove the wire (or adding a shorting
wire )from the terminals will set off the tamper.

There is not much you can do with a contact beside using contacts with
built-in EOL, or using a panel that supports Hi-Lo loop supervision such as
the Surgard DV1660.
 
R

rory

Jan 1, 1970
0
thanks, i have read about that on this group as well, just wondered if
it was 'okay' to do. All my contacts have 2 pair 4 conductor wire
anwyay. I just dont like how putting the resistor in the contact
looks, as I am stuck with standard T-100s on this job but they want
EOL, they decided and approved this at the last minute, plus it has to
be done by friday. Each door has a contact and a motion. It is an
Ademco Vista 50P, 4 partitions, 5 keypads.

My main question will be, whats the right way to do this, with what I
have?
UL doesnt mean anything over here legally etc, we have no laws/
inspections in that regard, etc, but the clients are American so I
want it done to US standard.

Can i just put the resistor in the drop ceiling? with a beanie or
something? The wire from the contact goes into the sheetrock, then up
about 1-2 feet depending on the door, then out into the drop ceiling
and back to the panel. I have seperate wires run for each zone, kind
of. I am using Ademco 4208U zone expanders so I have certain
partitions that will use 1 wire from the panel, to say downstairs,
then that expander will split out to 8 zones - contacts and motions. I
imagine it is the same, whether the wire is run direct back to the
panel or using the zone expander with serial programming??

Thanks

Rory
 
R

rory

Jan 1, 1970
0
also, by implmenting EOLS where they are supposed to be, I think we
are going to change the way it is supposed to be done, in this
country. It is not just me, It is just starting with me, It will
follow with a major local alarm monitoring company doing it also.

So far, everyone, in general, in the Bahamas, puts the EOLs in the
panel just to turn off the feature.

Rory
 
R

rory

Jan 1, 1970
0
last thing, using the 4 conductor, what if all 4 wires are crushed
together, will it still work in the way we want?

Thanks

Rory
 
A

alarman

Jan 1, 1970
0
rory wrote
Can i just put the resistor in the drop ceiling? with a beanie or
something?

I'd put the eol at the contact or in the panel on the return pair as
deseribed here, not above the ceiling.
js
 
R

rory

Jan 1, 1970
0
alarman said:
rory wrote

I'd put the eol at the contact or in the panel on the return pair as
deseribed here, not above the ceiling.
js

just put it in one of the terminals, and bend it back to make it neat?
Is tape/beanies needed?

thanks
 
A

alarman

Jan 1, 1970
0
rory wrote i
just put it in one of the terminals, and bend it back to make it neat?
Is tape/beanies needed?

No, at the contact. Don't connect the eol to the panel terminals. If you
want it at the panel, use the return pair of your 4 cond. cable as described
before: example

At the panel, Red and Green to the zone terminals, black and yellow to the
resistor.
At the contact, red and yellow to the contact, connect green to black.

You can also order contacts with eol resistors already inside them.
js
 
R

rory

Jan 1, 1970
0
yeah thats what I meant, the contact's screw terminal. Does the
resistor have to be protected such as beanie or tape, it is all
indoor. I think it would look bad with either. I was thinking just
putting the resistor on the wire in the drop ceiling right above the
contact (1-2 feet away) where the wire comes out from the drywall and
into the ceiling to go back to the panel, or expander.

Other question, is this even neccassary with a 4208U Expander on the
Ademco Vista 50.

Thanks

Rory
 
R

rory

Jan 1, 1970
0
Im using Motion Detectors and Door Contacts.



John Sowden said:
consider using open circuit sensors, wired in parralel, quad, resistor in
control, programming the day loop supervision to activate a local sounder,
and possibly send you a signal, as the integrity of the loop should never
be violated.

--
John R. Sowden
AMERICAN SENTRY SYSTEMS, INC.
1221 Andersen Drive
San Rafael, CA 94901
(415) 457-2622
[email protected]
www.americansentry.com
Residential and Commercial Alarm Services
U.L. Protective Signalling Listed Central Station
Serving the San Francisco Bay Area Since 1967
 
G

G. Morgan

Jan 1, 1970
0
On 25 Nov 2004 20:06:17 -0800 "rory"
used 36 lines of text to write in newsgroup: alt.security.alarms
Im using Motion Detectors and Door Contacts.


Huh? He suggested you use NC (open loop) contacts, and the NO side of
the motions.


BTW, if you use all addressable V-plex devices you get full
supervision with no EOL's, and wiring is a snap. Maybe you can
revolutionize the Bahamas with that.
 
R

rory

Jan 1, 1970
0
G. Morgan said:
On 25 Nov 2004 20:06:17 -0800 "rory"
used 36 lines of text to write in newsgroup: alt.security.alarms



Huh? He suggested you use NC (open loop) contacts, and the NO side of
the motions.


BTW, if you use all addressable V-plex devices you get full
supervision with no EOL's, and wiring is a snap. Maybe you can
revolutionize the Bahamas with that.


I was going to quote them but they are pricey ;-)
I AM using 4208U Expanders, is this the same? Im using the addressable
serial numbers.

Regardless though, all Ademco Vista 50 zones (except zone 9) are
supervised, but the EOL is something different as far as I can tell,
supervised does not show a short just a fault?
 
R

rory

Jan 1, 1970
0
G. Morgan said:
On 25 Nov 2004 20:06:17 -0800 "rory"
used 36 lines of text to write in newsgroup: alt.security.alarms



Huh? He suggested you use NC (open loop) contacts, and the NO side of
the motions.


BTW, if you use all addressable V-plex devices you get full
supervision with no EOL's, and wiring is a snap. Maybe you can
revolutionize the Bahamas with that.

If I use the NO side of the motions, wont they stay faulted?
 
R

rory

Jan 1, 1970
0
Im stuck with GRI T-100's for now for this job, but who sells the
other ones? also, does that mean just parrallel it on the panel like
you do with a smoke detector? And same with the motions? Does this do
the same thing though as using the EOl at the end of it? I dont have
additional conductors for the motions though so loop is out of the
question. A resitor in the motion is easy enough anyway, already done
that. Contacts, I just put the resistor above the contacts in the drop
ceiling, for now, using a terminal strip, as on the contact itself it
would look shabby. Remember it is not a law here, and there are still
motions at every door contact, and we still have dumb criminals here,
also, this is a liquor place so more than likley the criminals will be
drunks :)

Thanks

Rory
 
G

G. Morgan

Jan 1, 1970
0
On 27 Nov 2004 21:14:56 -0800 "rory"
used 16 lines of text to write in newsgroup: alt.security.alarms
If I use the NO side of the motions, wont they stay faulted?


Not if you wire the EOLR in parallel.
 
G

G. Morgan

Jan 1, 1970
0
On 27 Nov 2004 21:21:19 -0800 "rory"
used 49 lines of text to write in newsgroup: alt.security.alarms
Im stuck with GRI T-100's for now for this job, but who sells the
other ones?

GRI and Sentrol both sell closed and open loop contacts.
also, does that mean just parrallel it on the panel like
you do with a smoke detector? And same with the motions?

yep, yep
Does this do
the same thing though as using the EOl at the end of it?

You are putting the EOLR at the end of it. Look at the diagram on
page 3-7 of the Vista50P manual, see the switches on zone 2? The one
labeled NC is in series with the EOLR and the one labeled NO is in
parallel.

Fucking manufacturers can not get this whole NO/NC thing right. I was
taught in electronics class that a device is supposed to be labeled in
it's non-energized state, shelf state. So a contact that is "open"
that has no magnet applied to it is a normally open switch. But as
you can see in Ademco's diagram, it's wrong.
 
R

rory

Jan 1, 1970
0
So I can essentially take the resistor Off the Motion, change the
motion from NC to NO by using the NO terminal, and parralel the
resistor at the panel?? This would be soo much easier actually, why
dont they say to do it like this? ill take another look at the manual,

thanks

Rory
 
G

G. Morgan

Jan 1, 1970
0
On 28 Nov 2004 09:31:10 -0800 "rory"
used 36 lines of text to write in newsgroup: alt.security.alarms
So I can essentially take the resistor Off the Motion, change the
motion from NC to NO by using the NO terminal, and parralel the
resistor at the panel?? This would be soo much easier actually, why
dont they say to do it like this? ill take another look at the manual,


No, because if the wire ever got cut you would never know about it,
the panel would always "see" the resistor and the motion state would
never be recognized. You have to put the EOLR at the EOL. It's only
a matter of placing the resistor series or parallel wiring depending
on which contacts you use.
 
R

rory

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ok, I just noticed the motions we use only have NC anyway..ill just
put it in the motion with a beanie for now.

Thanks.

Rory
 
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